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Gameday Thread: Anaheim @ Dallas

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:02 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
As for sacrificing what it takes to win...take a look at Kariya's playoff record. Look at Fedorov's. No comparison, IMO...
Thats about as valid a point as comparing Ray Borques playoff record to Paul Coffeys & coming to the conclusion that Coffey was better based on their respective playoff records & Cups.
I guess Coffey must have been better cause the stats & Cups show he "sacraficed".
A stupid conclusion to draw based on "playoff records", IMO

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10-08-2003, 07:15 PM
  #77
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Shoot, one game and out come all the clowns.

The difference tonight was mental. Lots of stupid little plays and a couple of HUGE HONKING ONES. In terms of skill, effort and (most surprisingly) the physical game, we were right there with them. Even despite that, we played well enough to beat some teams tonight, but definitely not Dallas, and especially not *in Dallas!*

If our heads aren't on straight for Nashville, I'll be worried. But tonight wasn't THAT bad.

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10-08-2003, 07:17 PM
  #78
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Guerin loses a fight to Simpson and then burns Simpson on a beauty of a goal. Revenge is sweet eh?

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10-08-2003, 07:22 PM
  #79
The Frugal Gourmet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Guerin loses a fight to Simpson and then burns Simpson on a beauty of a goal. Revenge is sweet eh?
Who was the other defenseman back there? Ozolinsh? It seemed like he cut between two defensemen.

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10-08-2003, 07:26 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet
Who was the other defenseman back there? Ozolinsh? It seemed like he cut between two defensemen.
Yep it was Ozo. Not really his fault on that one (unlike Barnes' first goal) though. Simpson came across the ice after Guerin and got dusted. Even if Ozo was good defensively, he would have been hard pressed to cover up for Simpson's error.

BTW, I just have to point out that early in the first, Thorne said Ott was Zubov's defensive partner as the play was happening. I am seriously advocating the taking of Thorne's life at this point.

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10-08-2003, 07:27 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
The young Burnette looks very interesting, I must say.

Outside of that, yeah.
He's not young!

And I too was pleased by Lupul's play. Miettinen showed promising stuff too.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:27 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
Thats about as valid a point as comparing Ray Borques playoff record to Paul Coffeys & coming to the conclusion that Coffey was better based on their respective playoff records & Cups.
I guess Coffey must have been better cause the stats & Cups show he "sacraficed".
A stupid conclusion to draw based on "playoff records", IMO
I agree, but then what about the original claim that somehow Oates and Kariya sacrifice to help their teams win? What proof is there that they somehow are more apt to do so than Fedorov?

Fedorov, mercenary or not, can never be questioned as far as his on-ice willingness to help his team in whatever way he can. And anyone who says Kariya sacrifices for the team hasn't seem him increasingly refuse to play in traffic the last 4 years.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:36 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
I agree, but then what about the original claim that somehow Oates and Kariya sacrifice to help their teams win? What proof is there that they somehow are more apt to do so than Fedorov?

Fedorov, mercenary or not, can never be questioned as far as his on-ice willingness to help his team in whatever way he can. And anyone who says Kariya sacrifices for the team hasn't seem him increasingly refuse to play in traffic the last 4 years.
I didnt read the "original claim".
That been said, I agree with all your points.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:37 PM
  #84
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Meittinen surprised me tonight. Maybe you were right on this one, M=G. I'll give this kid a closer look throughout the season. The way he pulled the puck to his skates as he was coming in to the net was almost Bertuzzi-esque. Not many players go to the net like that anymore.

Does he have any hands or a shot to speak of?

Zubov showed tonight why he deserves to be in the NHL elite of not only defensemen, but players in general. Zubov with a strong start could be a prelude to moving back up into the 50 - 60 point ranges. And to think, the Pens took Kevin Hatcher over this guy. McGuire said on the telecast the reason was because 'Mario didn't like Zubov'. Way to take one for the team, Lemieux!

I thought the Dallas Stars came out in mid-season form tonight, and showed why they were 1st in the West last year. I defy you to show me one other team in this league sans perhaps Detroit and St.Louis that has better first passes out of their own zone. Their overall passing game through all their forwards was tremendous last night. Even their youngsters I thought were okay. Meittinen, Erskine (I like guys who are willing to drop 'em like that), and even Ott were average to good. Young looks to have started the season cold - could be a while before he decides to score goals again. Young is the quintisential streaky goaltender that scores just enough for the coach & GM to keep him around

However, this game was determined by the Star players on the Dallas lineup. Modano was sensational. Guerin was even better. Zubov was the best I've seen him since the Oilers series, he was absolutely untouchable out there. Boucher played a strong, quiet game. Robidas was flying out there (I love watching this guy skate. He reminds me of Brett Hedican in the mid 90's on the Canucks, but not quite a talented). Turco played unspectacular (but for goaltenders, that's kind of a good thing), albiet solid. Turco, tonight, firmly entrentched my thoughts that he is the best puck handling goaltender in the league. Not even Brodeur can match his prowess in moving around the puck. I hope Matvichuk & the rest of the blueliners kiss his hockey stick after games like tonight, because it saved them a world of hurt from the forecheckers coming in to take the body.

For the Ducks, as I said, there wasn't much to speak of. Fedorov I thought played better than the stat sheets showed (-2). Giguere was beaten by pretty impossible shots outside of the 1st Barnes goal. It was the Ducks defense that looked terrible last night, but that's to be expected early on in the season. Babcock will get these guys tightened up at least by Game 3. I do not know if he'll have the time to get things straight by tommorrow. Lupul looked good, definetly will look at him more over the season. Chistov looked interested, Prospal was invisable at first, but got better as the game went on. Sykora was a non-entity. Salei was involved, as well as Ozo, but in all the wrong ways.

Overall, this was the Dallas Stars putting on a clinic. The Stars will be way better than some say.

Last thing I'd like to say - Numminen/Zubov looks like an absolutely amazing pairing. Matvichuk/Boucher was okay, but it became very obvious to me that the first pairing was Teppo & Sergei. Wow, what a power play they can run with those two guys back there.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:49 PM
  #85
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People thought I was crazy, but I still think the Stars will be better without Hatcher. Excellent transition, much better speed and Boucher throws some BRUTAL hits. Still a very physical defense, yet faster and MUCH better in transition.

And yes, Miettinen's nickname on the Stars' boards is Mitten Hands (he has a SWEET shot, and is awesome with his puck handling). The kid is going to be a star in this league once he gets adjusted to the NHL. He was incredible in Europe.

With Kapanen and Miettinen, the Stars are a LOT better with their youth than most think. They also have a Zubov clone who is a year away in Trevor Daley. It's almost amazing how well the young guys are playing seeing as how all the Stars' prospects are generally downgraded by the league.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:49 PM
  #86
The Frugal Gourmet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
And to think, the Pens took Kevin Hatcher over [Sergei Zubov]. McGuire said on the telecast the reason was because 'Mario didn't like Zubov'. Way to take one for the team, Lemieux!
This is actually quite the popular anecdote among Stars fans. Whenever Stars fans have had a few beers in them, they like to revisit this steal of a deal by Bob Gainey (who told the press, it was a "no brainer" and his easiest decision ever as a GM).

And it's absolutely true, BTW. Mario thought that Zubov was "not physical enough" and so wanted his team to trade him for Kevin Hatcher.

Many fans and sportswriters credit the Zubov deal with singlehandedly turning the Stars into a bottom-runger into a playoff team, which happened not long after. And the Stars have been among the tops in the NHL in power play percentage for many seasons after that.

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:52 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado_Starsfan
With Kapanen and Miettinen, the Stars are a LOT better with their youth than most think. They also have a Zubov clone who is a year away in Trevor Daley. It's almost amazing how well the young guys are playing seeing as how all the Stars' prospects are generally downgraded by the league.
IMO Daley is completely unlike Zubov in stlye, actually. He's a skater whereas Zubov is a puckhandler. You'll notice Zubov actually does not skate fast, he just stickhandles his way all over the ice.

If I were to make an "idealistic" comparison, I would take Rob Niedermayer as a better comparison for Daley (note: I am not saying he will be as good, just that's the style he tries to emulate).

Also, I think you are a little overexaggerating about Miettinen. This guy is solid all-around, but he doesn't have the hands of a primiere sniper...

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Old
10-08-2003, 07:57 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet
IMO Daley is completely unlike Zubov in stlye, actually. He's a skater whereas Zubov is a puckhandler. You'll notice Zubov actually does not skate fast, he just stickhandles his way all over the ice.

If I were to make an "idealistic" comparison, I would take Rob Niedermayer as a better comparison for Daley (note: I am not saying he will be as good, just that's the style he tries to emulate).

Also, I think you are a little overexaggerating about Miettinen. This guy is solid all-around, but he doesn't have the hands of a primiere sniper...
I'd agree on the Niedermayer thing. As for Miettinen, you have to see him play more to appreciate it. He's a late bloomer, and was the best player in his European league last year. Amazing, since they got him in the seventh round of the draft.

The Stars have an EXCELLENT foreign scout, because most of their great prospects are from Europe.

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:02 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet
IMO Daley is completely unlike Zubov in stlye, actually. He's a skater whereas Zubov is a puckhandler. You'll notice Zubov actually does not skate fast, he just stickhandles his way all over the ice.

If I were to make an "idealistic" comparison, I would take Rob Niedermayer as a better comparison for Daley (note: I am not saying he will be as good, just that's the style he tries to emulate).

Also, I think you are a little overexaggerating about Miettinen. This guy is solid all-around, but he doesn't have the hands of a primiere sniper...

Agreed about Zubov. Sergei is no Brian Leetch-skating wise. He's actually fairly average top-speed wise, but is agile & quick from a stop to full speed accelleration. Zubov relies 100% on his on-ice vision, puck movement skills & puckhandling for the power play.

(PS: You mean Scott Nieds, right?)

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:02 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet
And it's absolutely true, BTW. Mario thought that Zubov was "not physical enough" and so wanted his team to trade him for Kevin Hatcher.
To be fair, Zubov had some truly brutal mistakes in the playoffs for the Pens, including a few that cost Pittsburgh games. It wasn't as if Craig Patrick suddenly went stupid, they had legitimate reason for wanting to move him.

Quote:
Many fans and sportswriters credit the Zubov deal with singlehandedly turning the Stars into a bottom-runger into a playoff team, which happened not long after. And the Stars have been among the tops in the NHL in power play percentage for many seasons after that.
I wouldn't say singlehandedly. The Zubov deal was the, "final piece." But there were a lot of things that came together at once ... Nieuwendyk had been acquired towards the end of the prior season, Sydor was added, young guys like Lehtinen broke in, and Modano was about to go from really good to superstar.

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:06 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
(PS: You mean Scott Nieds, right?)
Whoops...

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:13 PM
  #92
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Just watched the tape of the game. 3 most impressive from each team:

Ducks
1)Lupul
2)Neidermayer
3)Fedorov

Stars
1)Zubov
2)Guerin
3)Barnes

Loved the Simpson/Guerin fight to get the season started. Simpson won that one easily. But Simpson's more of a fighter than Guerin. Burnett/Erskine I'd say was a draw.

3 most disappointing:

Ducks
1) Giguere
2) Smirnov
3) Vishnevski

Can't really think of any Stars who stood out negatively.

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:48 PM
  #93
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I haven't heard anyone mentioning how well Morrow was, Morrow IMO, was the Stars top player out there. He was everywhere.. recording a +3 and assisting on 2. Jason Arnott also really seemed to connect tonight.. quite a beast when he's on.

And man, Stu Barnes, what a great aquisition has he been so far..

Great opening Stars... here's hoping Lehtinen will play vs the Preds..

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:53 PM
  #94
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I have to admit, I was expecting a serious panic attack on defense, but they looked pretty adept to me.

They looked a bit out-of-sync, but no more than you see on any opening night.

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10-08-2003, 09:02 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHard
M=G, where did you see the game?
My friend has an international satelite, luckily this game was on it so he taped it for me. Picked it up right away at like 5 o'clock in the morning..

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Old
10-08-2003, 09:30 PM
  #96
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Damn Miz, stop it.. we get it.. Zubov is good..

Yeah Miettinen pulled a great move, too bad he wasn't playing as much..

And Guerin really seems like his in better shape then ever like he claimed.

Was also impressed with Lupul of the Ducks.

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Old
10-08-2003, 09:39 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Sammy
Thats about as valid a point as comparing Ray Borques playoff record to Paul Coffeys & coming to the conclusion that Coffey was better based on their respective playoff records & Cups.
I guess Coffey must have been better cause the stats & Cups show he "sacraficed".
A stupid conclusion to draw based on "playoff records", IMO
I'm not at all referring to Cups - I'm referring to offensive records. Fedorov's stats scream playoff performer - and he is! Kariya, on the other hand, decided to go from having 81 points in the regular season to 12 points in 21 games in the playoffs. Wow.

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Old
10-09-2003, 04:16 AM
  #98
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For a season opener, that was a great game.....by Dallas. They look very sharp. Awesome goal by Guerin. Sometimes I forget how fast he really is.

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Old
10-09-2003, 06:23 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
I'm not at all referring to Cups - I'm referring to offensive records. Fedorov's stats scream playoff performer - and he is! Kariya, on the other hand, decided to go from having 81 points in the regular season to 12 points in 21 games in the playoffs. Wow.
Brilliant. You dont think that their surrounding cast members & the era in which they were producing in the playoffs had anything to do with their respective stats.

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10-09-2003, 07:43 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Sammy
Brilliant. You dont think that their surrounding cast members & the era in which they were producing in the playoffs had anything to do with their respective stats.
No, I don't. I don't see how the 2001-2002 season is a different "era" from the 2002-2003 season. Fedorov raises his game for the playoffs, Kariya doesn't - hell, he was outpoined by Oates and Sykora last season, and outscored by Rucchin (in the post season). Kariya simply does not raise his game for the playoffs. Fedorov does.

I also don't see how team-mates matter. Stars and superstars don't need teammates to inflate stats for them.

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