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Crosby or Ovechkin???

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Old
10-11-2005, 10:03 PM
  #101
EroCaps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops
Too late man,it 's now official.When in doubt about the potential and talent of two players here,the tiebreak is whether the player is canuck or not.If you had of been here a few minutes ago you may have been able to stop it but alas.

Xenophobia? Relax man,lol.

you're too serious here. Have fun.
Way to switch gears?

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Old
10-11-2005, 10:07 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by cyclops
I'm not sure.Ovechkin looks to have leadership potential to me.I've really liked what i've seen of the guy,how he is willing and able to make the plays,take/give hits to help the team and come up big when his team needs it most.Add in the fact that he passed up a sweet RSL contract to play in the nhl and any "no leadership potential" talk seems unwarranted to me.He looks to be a total package to me,great all around player that a franchise can build around. Washington will be HIS team very soon and i think he's up to the task.
i agree 100%. people can say what they want about ovechkin...but hes the real deal. he absolutley OOZES charisma on and off the ice, hits hard, scores clutch goals, he can do it all...definitely a player id want on my team.

at the beginning of next year...he'll have an "A" on his jersey. book it. he may even have one by the end of this year.


that being said, who would i choose? its really a toss up...one isn't clearly better than the other, its all a matter of personal opinion. but if i had to pick one, it'd be ovechkin.

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Old
10-11-2005, 10:29 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barfy2000
i agree 100%. people can say what they want about ovechkin...but hes the real deal. he absolutley OOZES charisma on and off the ice, hits hard, scores clutch goals, he can do it all...definitely a player id want on my team.

at the beginning of next year...he'll have an "A" on his jersey. book it. he may even have one by the end of this year.
The way things are looking in Washington, by next year he might have a C on his jersey(Depending on whether Halpern is driven crazy by the team being outscored 6 goals every second game and runs off laughing manaicly or not)

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Old
10-11-2005, 11:11 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Question: What happens in those rare occasions that two top players are Canadians?
You can always use the Don Cherry scale. A player of a certain "nationality" is always better than one of a "nationality" below his on the list:

1. Kingston
2. Toronto
3. Ontario
4. Western Canada
5. Atlantic Canada
6. USA
7. Quebec
8. Europe
9. Sweden
10. Russia/Soviet Union

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Old
10-12-2005, 01:19 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You can always use the Don Cherry scale. A player of a certain "nationality" is always better than one of a "nationality" below his on the list:

1. Kingston
2. Toronto
3. Ontario
4. Western Canada
5. Atlantic Canada
6. USA
7. Quebec
8. Europe
9. Sweden
10. Russia/Soviet Union

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Old
10-12-2005, 03:12 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You can always use the Don Cherry scale. A player of a certain "nationality" is always better than one of a "nationality" below his on the list:

1. Kingston
2. Toronto
3. Ontario
4. Western Canada
5. Atlantic Canada
6. USA
7. Quebec
8. Europe
9. Sweden
10. Russia/Soviet Union
Haha That's a good one and spot on.

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Old
10-12-2005, 03:12 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Rakiet
All I have to say is who cares about ovechkin?
The Calder trophy does.

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Old
10-12-2005, 03:56 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_servo
I just love that both of these guys are living up to (reasonable) expectations.

Yeah, who'd have thought it? I haven't had the chance to watch Crosby, but I am thrilled with Ovechkin. I think he's going to be a great leader for this club.

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Old
10-12-2005, 07:50 AM
  #109
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Both are great players but I would say Ovechkin. He comes from our "neighbour" (Russia) so that´s why I choose him.

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Old
10-12-2005, 08:03 AM
  #110
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I agree with whoever said why can't people just enjoy watching both of them (and I'm from Pittsburgh so go figure!). I enjoy the game and I enjoy players' talents, whatever those talents may be. I love Crosby so far and I haven't seen Ovechkin play except for vs. the USA in the worlds but I love snipers and from what I'm reading on here he has an even larger skill set so I'll be anxiously awaiting the Pens games against them. I only advocate these kinds of posts when I think one of the guys is vastly overrated but both of these guys just started and are both showing signs of brilliance so just enjoy it.

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Old
10-12-2005, 09:11 AM
  #111
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I see the word "sniper" being tossed around a lot in regards to Ovechkin, but I think it's misused. He doesn't do the Gonchar/Bondra thing and score only from the point. He takes rebounds, he shoots from everywhere and he can put it in the net almost at will.

The first day of training camp he did something totally sick. He shot on goal, it was blocked low, and from no more than ten inches in front of the goalie, he somehow chipped it up and over the goalie's shoulder. It was the craziest thing.

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Old
10-12-2005, 10:14 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smileypen
I see the word "sniper" being tossed around a lot in regards to Ovechkin, but I think it's misused. He doesn't do the Gonchar/Bondra thing and score only from the point. He takes rebounds, he shoots from everywhere and he can put it in the net almost at will.

The first day of training camp he did something totally sick. He shot on goal, it was blocked low, and from no more than ten inches in front of the goalie, he somehow chipped it up and over the goalie's shoulder. It was the craziest thing.

Congrats, for the most part you just described a sniper. Just for the record a sniper is a player who is an extremely accurate shooter and typically has a wicked wrist shot. Gonchar is not a sniper however Bondra is although I'm sure he has scored from other spots than the point of all places (?).

I do agree though that the term does have negative connotations. Usually someone labelled a sniper is thought to be a great shooter but nothing else when that is not always the case.

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Old
10-12-2005, 11:48 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps
Way to switch gears?
What is switching gears? You told me flat out that supporting players from my own country over other countries is xenophobia of all things.You mean to tell me i can't support Canadian players? You're not serious are you? that's xenophobia?

Like i said...............f'in relax man.

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Old
10-12-2005, 11:50 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You can always use the Don Cherry scale. A player of a certain "nationality" is always better than one of a "nationality" below his on the list:

1. Kingston
2. Toronto
3. Ontario
4. Western Canada
5. Atlantic Canada
6. USA
7. Quebec
8. Europe
9. Sweden
10. Russia/Soviet Union
Don's got a great scale..........he could stand to move the Atlantic provinces up higher but other then that he's got his priorities straight.

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Old
10-12-2005, 12:19 PM
  #115
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This is how I break it down:

Crosby is a once a generation talent. His pure offensive production will be unrivaled--I could see him getting 130 points in his prime. He will make players around him MUCH better. He threads unbelievable passes from all parts of the ice, is creative, and isn't afraid to play in the corners. At 18, he still gets pushed off the puck, but at the same time holds his own down low. Unlike most players, he thrives in tight spaces, probaby even more so than in wide open ice. Every time the puck is in the offensive zone he is near it or buzzing around the net. Crosby backchecks and puts effort into his defensive game, but doesn't necessarily have great defensive instincts.

Powerful, versatile and complete--3 words to describe AO. His style can emulate any of the great goal scorers in the past. He scores garbage goals while getting knocked around in front of the net, like Andreychuk or Holmstrom. He can finesse through a mass of defenders like Mogilny. You need a breakaway? AO is one of the fastest and most powerful skaters in the league as it is. Think Bure being bigger, defensively aggresive and able to deliver glass-rattling checks. He will absolutely give 110% on each shift and lead both ways--vocally and by example. His positive attitude, confidence and love of the game is contagious.

The bottom line is, I think Crosby will outproduce AO. AO I think will be a consistent 100-110 point producer, while Crosby's ceiling is probabaly 20-30 points higher. It really does come down to preference. AO is undoubtedly the more complete player offensively and defensively. He does EVERYTHING and can play any style. Crosby is the pure offensive talent who sees the ice a step ahead everyone else--always dangerous. He will be a machine. Both will be MVPs, leaders and overall incredible players, but they are so different. I prefer enjoying them as individual players without the constant comparison. They attack the game differently. They will both be great, but if one emerges over the other, it's too early to tell. Who will be better in the playoffs?

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Old
10-12-2005, 12:53 PM
  #116
Smileypen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44
Congrats, for the most part you just described a sniper. Just for the record a sniper is a player who is an extremely accurate shooter and typically has a wicked wrist shot. Gonchar is not a sniper however Bondra is although I'm sure he has scored from other spots than the point of all places (?).

I do agree though that the term does have negative connotations. Usually someone labelled a sniper is thought to be a great shooter but nothing else when that is not always the case.
Ah, see, I always think of a sniper as someone with a strong shot from far away...hence the "sniper" reference...taking a shot from the point or high in the slot and what have you. Thanks for the clarification.

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Old
10-12-2005, 05:18 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzai
This is how I break it down:

Crosby is a once a generation talent. His pure offensive production will be unrivaled--I could see him getting 130 points in his prime. He will make players around him MUCH better. He threads unbelievable passes from all parts of the ice, is creative, and isn't afraid to play in the corners. At 18, he still gets pushed off the puck, but at the same time holds his own down low. Unlike most players, he thrives in tight spaces, probaby even more so than in wide open ice. Every time the puck is in the offensive zone he is near it or buzzing around the net. Crosby backchecks and puts effort into his defensive game, but doesn't necessarily have great defensive instincts.

Powerful, versatile and complete--3 words to describe AO. His style can emulate any of the great goal scorers in the past. He scores garbage goals while getting knocked around in front of the net, like Andreychuk or Holmstrom. He can finesse through a mass of defenders like Mogilny. You need a breakaway? AO is one of the fastest and most powerful skaters in the league as it is. Think Bure being bigger, defensively aggresive and able to deliver glass-rattling checks. He will absolutely give 110% on each shift and lead both ways--vocally and by example. His positive attitude, confidence and love of the game is contagious.

The bottom line is, I think Crosby will outproduce AO. AO I think will be a consistent 100-110 point producer, while Crosby's ceiling is probabaly 20-30 points higher. It really does come down to preference. AO is undoubtedly the more complete player offensively and defensively. He does EVERYTHING and can play any style. Crosby is the pure offensive talent who sees the ice a step ahead everyone else--always dangerous. He will be a machine. Both will be MVPs, leaders and overall incredible players, but they are so different. I prefer enjoying them as individual players without the constant comparison. They attack the game differently. They will both be great, but if one emerges over the other, it's too early to tell. Who will be better in the playoffs?

This is the best post EVER regarding AO vs. Crosby!
I think I couldn't agree more.

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Old
10-12-2005, 07:16 PM
  #118
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I'd rather have AO because he seems to be a much more complete and firey player. He's amazing.

AO has been tearing it up with virtually no support.

Crosby has a team built specifically for him.

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Old
10-12-2005, 07:24 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleCloutierFan
I'd rather have AO because he seems to be a much more complete and firey player. He's amazing.

AO has been tearing it up with virtually no support.

Crosby has a team built specifically for him.
Except he's been far and away the best player on that team night in and night out...


This whole team crap is getting very old...

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Old
10-12-2005, 07:28 PM
  #120
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Crosby has a team built specifically for him.

The ''teammates'' argument doesn't fly, because they've done little to help Sid and he's still got 6 points in 4 games. They're lucky Sid's been there to pass them some sure goals.

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Old
10-12-2005, 07:31 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
Except he's been far and away the best player on that team night in and night out...


This whole team crap is getting very old...
Ive only seen the Sabres game and IMO Recchi was the best Pen for the entire game....Crosby didnt do a whole lot until the 3rd, then he looked great (and I dont want to hear how great he was winning a face off and tying up his man....thats what a center is supposed to do)

for you to say he was "far and away the best player" every game just shows how you cant look at any of this objectively

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Old
10-12-2005, 07:42 PM
  #122
EroCaps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
Except he's been far and away the best player on that team night in and night out...


This whole team crap is getting very old...
It's a valid point, IMO.

Crosby got an assist on a goal that Recchi scored, where a Sabre player touched it before Recchi put it in. Granted, Crosby has been a top 1-3 player for Pitt each and every game, that was as garbage an assist as you'll find. Ovechkin is playing with a team of career 3rd liners that create almost no space for him to work. He's lucky to get ice time w/Cassels where Crosby is playing w/Palffy, Recchi, Gonchar, Mario, etc. etc.

A quick example...tonight Ovechkin set up Friesen on an amazing slap-pass w/a wide open net...whiff. Recchi would have put it in. Palffy, ditto.

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Old
10-12-2005, 08:47 PM
  #123
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The team argument(re: Crosby) is a valid one. He has much more offensive support than Ovechkin does, that's a fact. Compare Palffy, Lemieux, Recchi, Malone, Leclair, Gonchar to Friesen, Halpern, Zubrus, and....ok you get the point.

Crosby has more offensive support. Pure and simple.

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Old
10-12-2005, 08:51 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82
The team argument(re: Crosby) is a valid one. He has much more offensive support than Ovechkin does, that's a fact. Compare Palffy, Lemieux, Recchi, Malone, Leclair, Gonchar to Friesen, Halpern, Zubrus, and....ok you get the point.

Crosby has more offensive support. Pure and simple.
In theory, yes. But so far Crosby is creating almost all of the scoring on the team.

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Old
10-12-2005, 08:56 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pens1566
In theory, yes. But so far Crosby is creating almost all of the scoring on the team.
And Ovechkin is creating almost all the Caps scoring. More so, because the Caps haven't scored more than 3 goals any given game.

Your point was?

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