HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Muckler lays down gauntlet with Havlat

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-08-2003, 06:41 PM
  #26
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,143
vCash: 500
A few points...

- Havlat has consistently demanded more than what Hossa got from his last contract (when you consider the length of the deal). Obviously unacceptable to the Sens, given they don't want demonstrate they feel Havlat is better than Hossa at the same age. If he (read: his agent) would have come with a reasonable offer taking into consideration teh above, Muckler might have been more understanding.

- Unlike Richards, Havlat hasn't been the top scorer for his team over the first three years of his contract. Havlat isn't top 3 in Ottawa over the last 3 years (Alfredsson, Hossa, Bonk). In fact, over the last two years, Todd White had had more points and he makes less than $1 million per year.

- The last thing Muckler and the Sens want is this Havlat contract situation to drag on. Daily media reports are not within the best interest of the Sens.

- The fans in Ottawa are for the most part, decidely on the side of the team. I'm an 10 year season ticket holder for the Sens, and everyone I know is looking forward to the season with or without Mach 9.

I love watching him play, but Havlat is poised to make the biggest mistake of his life if he passes on Mucks offer. Ottawa is looking to set a precedent with their young players, and it sucks to be the guy who gets made an example of.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 06:45 PM
  #27
Hitman*
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cowtown
Posts: 4,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolution
Don't get me wrong. I love the sens and the leafs aren't exactly my favourite team. I'd hate it if something like that happened. Anyway great point about canadian team being able to match with canadian money. I guess it doesn't work after all.
From what I understand, if a Canadian team makes the contract offer, the league doesn't pay the difference, if it were a team like the Wings, then that would be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone?

Hitman* is offline  
Old
10-08-2003, 10:56 PM
  #28
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
He wasn't offered 1.9/year for 2 years (3.8 in total). He was offered 1.9 for 2 years (1.9 in total) or somewhere pretty close to that. If you ask me that is a lowball offer for one of the most promising young players in the game right now.

Hopefully they will compromise and he will sign a one year deal for 1.5 or so. I hate seeing the most talented players sit out a season.
Muckler is on record as having offered 1.35 million for 1 year. why would he offer less for 2? Also, that offer averages 950,000 a year. Havlat made 960,000 last year. Under the CBA, he'd be a UFA if that was the best offer Muckler made.

kingsfan is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 03:22 AM
  #29
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman
From what I understand, if a Canadian team makes the contract offer, the league doesn't pay the difference, if it were a team like the Wings, then that would be the case.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone?
You are correct, however the Leafs are the last team in the league that will offer contract to Havlat and force his signing. The Leafs know the Sens will match (the Sens pockets are just as deep now) and trust me on this one - the Leafs brass would prefer to play against a Sens team without Havlat this season.

That would be like the Sens earlier in the season to try and MAKE Svehla go back and play of the Leafs.

Uh, no.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 04:08 AM
  #30
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
http://canoe.ca/Slam031009/nhl_ott1-sun.html

More Details there on what is going on.

Mucklers's offer isn't final...but they appear to be about 600K appart.

SensGod is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 04:12 AM
  #31
Rabid Ranger
Imperiled Knight
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Abyss
Country: United States
Posts: 19,283
vCash: 500
The Sens are one of the few teams in the league that can play hardball with a player of Havlat's calibe and not skip a beat. Let the guy sit for the year.

Rabid Ranger is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 04:34 AM
  #32
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,482
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e)
A few points...

- Havlat has consistently demanded more than what Hossa got from his last contract (when you consider the length of the deal). Obviously unacceptable to the Sens, given they don't want demonstrate they feel Havlat is better than Hossa at the same age. If he (read: his agent) would have come with a reasonable offer taking into consideration teh above, Muckler might have been more understanding.

- Unlike Richards, Havlat hasn't been the top scorer for his team over the first three years of his contract. Havlat isn't top 3 in Ottawa over the last 3 years (Alfredsson, Hossa, Bonk). In fact, over the last two years, Todd White had had more points and he makes less than $1 million per year.

- The last thing Muckler and the Sens want is this Havlat contract situation to drag on. Daily media reports are not within the best interest of the Sens.

- The fans in Ottawa are for the most part, decidely on the side of the team. I'm an 10 year season ticket holder for the Sens, and everyone I know is looking forward to the season with or without Mach 9.

I love watching him play, but Havlat is poised to make the biggest mistake of his life if he passes on Mucks offer. Ottawa is looking to set a precedent with their young players, and it sucks to be the guy who gets made an example of.
- So by offerering Havlar 1.9 for 2 years they want to demonstrate to Havlat, Hossa and everyone else that the Sens think Havlat is only half the player Hossa is? It works both ways, you know.

- Havlat isn't asking for Richards money.

- Muckler and the sens deserve to lose him for the season and blow their Stanley cup chances. They seriously started negotiating by offereing him half of the league average salary? A guy that is young and gets a point/game while playing on a third line? Gee, Havlat is so ungrateful for not accepting the generous offer from Muckler.

I think Sens are the ones making the mistake here. Just because they don't think Havlat has any leverage it is unwise to piss one of the future cornerstones of the franchise. You don't constantly lowball and play hard against a bluechip prospect. It is just common sense. Offer him a fair deal and move on. Senators have yet to do that.

Freudian is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 04:56 AM
  #33
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
- So by offerering Havlar 1.9 for 2 years they want to demonstrate to Havlat, Hossa and everyone else that the Sens think Havlat is only half the player Hossa is? It works both ways, you know.
HOLLY CRAP! IT WAS A QUALIFYING OFFER SO THE SENS COULD KEEP HIS RIGHTS!!!!!

Why don't people realize that...sheesh. It's the 10% raise in order to maintain his rights after July 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
-
- Havlat isn't asking for Richards money.
No, but pretty close though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
-
- Muckler and the sens deserve to lose him for the season and blow their Stanley cup chances. They seriously started negotiating by offereing him half of the league average salary? A guy that is young and gets a point/game while playing on a third line? Gee, Havlat is so ungrateful for not accepting the generous offer from Muckler.
Not having Havlat isn't going to impact the Sens THAT much. Sheesh...now they have Smoke and Varada for a full season...and I'm sure that they will get upgraded output from the likes of Fisher, Alfie, Bonk and Hossa. Also keep in mind that if Schastlivy is healthy the whole year he could potentially replace Havlat's points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
-
I think Sens are the ones making the mistake here. Just because they don't think Havlat has any leverage it is unwise to piss one of the future cornerstones of the franchise. You don't constantly lowball and play hard against a bluechip prospect. It is just common sense. Offer him a fair deal and move on. Senators have yet to do that.
This is what is wrong with today's NHL...it's been discussed to death on these threads, but quite frankly...players like this shouldn't be making more than 1.0 - 1.5 million dollars a year. The GM's have shot themselves in the foot by giving the players the current CBA soldout the money they were looking for. We can all thank the Ducks (Kariya) and the Blues (Pronger) for screwing this all up.

Think about it. These players (the one's coming off their rookie contract) have no arbitration rights...hence...0 leverage. They where sold out by the NHLPA. Havlat shouldn't get mad at the Sens for the contract offers...he should get mad at the NHLPA for selling him out!

SensGod is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 04:56 AM
  #34
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
- Muckler and the sens deserve to lose him for the season and blow their Stanley cup chances. They seriously started negotiating by offereing him half of the league average salary? A guy that is young and gets a point/game while playing on a third line? Gee, Havlat is so ungrateful for not accepting the generous offer from Muckler.

I think Sens are the ones making the mistake here. Just because they don't think Havlat has any leverage it is unwise to piss one of the future cornerstones of the franchise. You don't constantly lowball and play hard against a bluechip prospect. It is just common sense. Offer him a fair deal and move on. Senators have yet to do that.
The Sens deserve nothing of the sort. The Sens made an initial offer that exceeded the 10% mandatory raise back earlier in the summer as their qualifying offer. Havlat's agent sat on the deal because he felt insulted. He only returned phone calls near the end of the summer when training camp was about to start. He's been gunning for a lock-out situation this entire time.

As for the comparison to Hossa, Hossa received more money for taking a 4 year deal, thus sacrificing two years worth of arbitration rights. The talks between Havlat and the Sens seem to focus on one or two year deals. If Havlat is not going to offer sacrificing something on his end (arbitration rights), then why should the Sens sacrifice much more on their end (pay increases exceeding 10%).

Havlat wants more than the 10% increase. You can't fault him on that. However, as stated a million times before, he doesn't have leverage. The Sens, while they are negotiating tough, they are giving more than the mandatory minimum. He's been offered a 40% pay increase for a one year deal. It may be less than other guys of similar ability are making, but they were in other bargaining positions.

The CBA is structured so that some players (UFA) get more than they would in a free market system. Some will hypothetically get the same in a free market system (arbitration) and others get less (Havlat's situation). If you start paying the guys in the last category more so they don't feel bad, then the system doesn't work.

discostu is online now  
Old
10-09-2003, 05:13 AM
  #35
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,482
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
Not having Havlat isn't going to impact the Sens THAT much. Sheesh...now they have Smoke and Varada for a full season...and I'm sure that they will get upgraded output from the likes of Fisher, Alfie, Bonk and Hossa. Also keep in mind that if Schastlivy is healthy the whole year he could potentially replace Havlat's points.

This is what is wrong with today's NHL...it's been discussed to death on these threads, but quite frankly...players like this shouldn't be making more than 1.0 - 1.5 million dollars a year. The GM's have shot themselves in the foot by giving the players the current CBA soldout the money they were looking for. We can all thank the Ducks (Kariya) and the Blues (Pronger) for screwing this all up.

Think about it. These players (the one's coming off their rookie contract) have no arbitration rights...hence...0 leverage. They where sold out by the NHLPA. Havlat shouldn't get mad at the Sens for the contract offers...he should get mad at the NHLPA for selling him out!
Well, if Havlat doesn't mean anything for your cup chances why not trade him away? Personally I think Ottawa has very small chances of winning the cup without all of it's offensive firepower. And what if Hossa or Alfredsson goes down with injury?

And Havlat is NOT asking for the moon on a stick. Sens offers are much more out of tune with what he should get than Havlats demands. Imagine Havlat hearing that the Sens splashed out 10M for a 4 year contract on Smolinski, and then get lowballed, lowballed and then lowballed again?

So he will get arbitration rights sometime in the future. No one knows anything about how it will look at all. So the promise of a future payday means pretty much nothing. And what if he gets a career-ending injury a few years from now? You can't expect him to play for peanuts for the first half of his career just because he might get paid more later. Offering him 4th line money when he plays a first line game is nonsense.

I truly hope Sens gets burned badly by this. They have handled the whole situation so poorly they deserve it. The latest public ultimatum is pathetic and should be above any serious organization.

Freudian is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 05:16 AM
  #36
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,482
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
The Sens deserve nothing of the sort. The Sens made an initial offer that exceeded the 10% mandatory raise back earlier in the summer as their qualifying offer. Havlat's agent sat on the deal because he felt insulted. He only returned phone calls near the end of the summer when training camp was about to start. He's been gunning for a lock-out situation this entire time.
Of course they deserve it. They are the ones making ultimatums. It would serve them right if Havlat decided to call them on it.

And talking about that this is the way the system works doesn't really work since the GMs themselves have colluded to make sure it doesn't work. In a situation like this when a player is clearly lowballed another team should offer Havlat a fair contract (3.5-4M/2years) and then it would be up to the Sens to match the market value of him. But since the Sens and everyone else knows no other team will offer him a contract, they can lowball him forever. If the system was actually working Havlat would already have a contract, with Sens or someone else.

Freudian is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 05:38 AM
  #37
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
Of course they deserve it. They are the ones making ultimatums. It would serve them right if Havlat decided to call them on it.

And talking about that this is the way the system works doesn't really work since the GMs themselves have colluded to make sure it doesn't work. In a situation like this when a player is clearly lowballed another team should offer Havlat a fair contract (3.5-4M/2years) and then it would be up to the Sens to match the market value of him. But since the Sens and everyone else knows no other team will offer him a contract, they can lowball him forever. If the system was actually working Havlat would already have a contract, with Sens or someone else.
Havlat's agent started off by sending Muckler an offer and telling him Havlat will play in the Czech republic this year if they don't reach a deal. That irked Muckler and this is the first "ultimatum" issued by the Sens side thus far.

Havlat and his agent have never even introduced or discussed the idea of signing a long-term deal like Hossa did. Thus, the Sens will give him exactly what he is entitled too - actually, they are giving him about 50% more than that in their latest offer. A one year deal is a sweet opportunity for Havlat, and he knows it (chance to raise market value again, he's closer to arbitration and he's guaranteed a 10% raise via a qualifying offer even if he has a brutal year). Thus, the Sens are not going to give him a huge offer on a 1-year deal.

I suppose you can take it personally and get all mad at the Sens for being smart about trying to control their salary structure, but doesn't the fact all of the Sens fans are on the team's side tell you something? Even the fans would rather him sit that change the scale in which guys coming off their rookie deal get paid. Why should Havlat be given a different salary structure than the rest of the Sens? Muckler is also setting the precedent for Spezza, Volchenkov and other young Sens players as they come off their rookie deals as well - no small consideration.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:12 AM
  #38
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
Of course they deserve it. They are the ones making ultimatums. It would serve them right if Havlat decided to call them on it.

And talking about that this is the way the system works doesn't really work since the GMs themselves have colluded to make sure it doesn't work. In a situation like this when a player is clearly lowballed another team should offer Havlat a fair contract (3.5-4M/2years) and then it would be up to the Sens to match the market value of him. But since the Sens and everyone else knows no other team will offer him a contract, they can lowball him forever. If the system was actually working Havlat would already have a contract, with Sens or someone else.
The whole collusion arguement is BS. There is no evidence of collussion. It's a claim that is made by people who are anti-owner when they run out of arguments.

The matching clause is the reason why many teams will not make an offer. If any player is offered a contract, the original team will almost certainly match (and in cases of Canadian teams, at a lower rate), therefore, there is no incentive for any team to make an offer. The only way you can steal someone away is to offer such an exorbant amount of money, but at that point giving away 5 first rounders for a player that you're going to overpay doesn't make much sense.

So going back to your point, yes, teams can lowball their players at this point. That is why, when the CBA was signed, that many analysts felt that the NHLPA sold-out the younger players in exchange for benefits for players later in their career. If Havlat has a problem, he should speak to his union rep.

discostu is online now  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:24 AM
  #39
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chattanooga TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
The whole collusion arguement is BS. There is no evidence of collussion. It's a claim that is made by people who are anti-owner when they run out of arguments.

The matching clause is the reason why many teams will not make an offer. If any player is offered a contract, the original team will almost certainly match (and in cases of Canadian teams, at a lower rate), therefore, there is no incentive for any team to make an offer. The only way you can steal someone away is to offer such an exorbant amount of money, but at that point giving away 5 first rounders for a player that you're going to overpay doesn't make much sense.

So going back to your point, yes, teams can lowball their players at this point. That is why, when the CBA was signed, that many analysts felt that the NHLPA sold-out the younger players in exchange for benefits for players later in their career. If Havlat has a problem, he should speak to his union rep.
Exactly. I hope Havlat enjoys his stay. Walsh can kiss his precious percentage money goodbye.

Enoch is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:30 AM
  #40
PigPen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,831
vCash: 500
Why not go with a 1 year contract that has a salary base of 1.5 million which also gives Havlat another 500k if he reaches either 30 goals or 70 points? That way Muckler and the team get their money's worth.

Question: According to the league's current RFA laws, what would Ottawa be compensated with if he were signed by another team for around 1.75 to 2 million a season?

PigPen is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:34 AM
  #41
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PigPen
Why not go with a 1 year contract that has a salary base of 1.5 million which also gives Havlat another 500k if he reaches either 30 goals or 70 points? That way Muckler and the team get their money's worth.

Question: According to the league's current RFA laws, what would Ottawa be compensated with if he were signed by another team for around 1.75 to 2 million a season?
Not to sure, but probably not much.

If an offer was made for Havlat, it would most certainly be matched though. The only way it wouldn't is if it was for a much higher amount, which would then push the compensation to 5 first round picks.

discostu is online now  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:40 AM
  #42
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,482
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
The whole collusion arguement is BS. There is no evidence of collussion. It's a claim that is made by people who are anti-owner when they run out of arguments.

The matching clause is the reason why many teams will not make an offer. If any player is offered a contract, the original team will almost certainly match (and in cases of Canadian teams, at a lower rate), therefore, there is no incentive for any team to make an offer. The only way you can steal someone away is to offer such an exorbant amount of money, but at that point giving away 5 first rounders for a player that you're going to overpay doesn't make much sense.

So going back to your point, yes, teams can lowball their players at this point. That is why, when the CBA was signed, that many analysts felt that the NHLPA sold-out the younger players in exchange for benefits for players later in their career. If Havlat has a problem, he should speak to his union rep.
Give me a break. Most teams would jump at the opportunity to offer Havlat money. Given the fact that he is being lowballed they wouldn't even have to offer the Sens more than one first rounder for it, and Havlat is clearly worth that, he would be worth more than that for the top teams in the league. So what if Ottawa matches, then you have lost zilch and your competitor has a slightly higher salary than he wanted initially.

The incentive is that there is a small chance that you actually might end up with the player. You take zero risk doing it. Everyone would do it in a case like this, and definately in the case of Gaborik where a top team would easily risk 3-4 first round picks for Gaborik at 3-4M/year.

The reason the owners agreed not do it is of course that it sent salaries way out of whack, with NYR offering Sakic insane money and Fedorov got that first year of his contract. So they decided to stop doing it. Which is good in one respect, since eventually it could kill hockey even more than it did. And it is a shame in one respect, because it lets teams get away with lowballing players because they have no option but to sit out. And that is what I hope Havlat is going to do. He can get good money playing for a russian team for example and Ottawa can wave their cup aspirations goodbye. That way they will learn the hard way that if you want to have top class talent on your team you at least have to pay them in the neighborhood of top talent salary.

If an organization can afford to pay Smolinski the money he gets and offer a 2M concert with a band that hasn't been good since the 70s, they should be able to pay at least close to market value for their top talent. Now if Havlat were to demand insane amounts of money (like Gaborik is rumoured to demand) I would understand you, but offering him 1.35 for a year and expecting him to get a point per game is insulting (especially since his rookie contract was low), especially when it is coupled with a public ultimatum.

Freudian is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:47 AM
  #43
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
The incentive is that there is a small chance that you actually might end up with the player. You take zero risk doing it.
Zero risk? If you fail, and the team matches, it will come back and bite the original team in the ass every time they enter salary negotiations, as it would have inflated the overall salary levels without providing them with any benefit. Teams are smart enough to realize that taking an action that has virtually zero chance at succeed, but will cost them in the future is not a wise business move.

discostu is online now  
Old
10-09-2003, 06:56 AM
  #44
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,482
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
Zero risk? If you fail, and the team matches, it will come back and bite the original team in the ass every time they enter salary negotiations, as it would have inflated the overall salary levels without providing them with any benefit. Teams are smart enough to realize that taking an action that has virtually zero chance at succeed, but will cost them in the future is not a wise business move.
You are forgetting one thing. There are plenty of teams in the league that has no problems paying good money for a player of Havlats salary if he was a member of their organization. So it woudn't bite them in the ass since they always were prepared to pay their top talent the money. Do you seriously think TB would have a problem offering Havlat a good contract when they already did it with Richards? Do you think Rangers would be foreign to playing a young star that gets 1 PPG 2-2.5M a year? So it wouldn't cost those teams anything in the future since they are only offering a contract at a level they already are at.

If there was no collusion Havlat would already have a contract offer from another team and you know it. And if Ottawa were to risk losing him to a rival they would be much more careful about issuing ultimatums.

Anyway, seems like Ottawa got their wish. Havlat is going home for the season.

Freudian is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:12 AM
  #45
Other Dave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New and improved in TO
Posts: 2,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
If an organization can afford to pay Smolinski the money he gets and offer a 2M concert with a band that hasn't been good since the 70s, they should be able to pay at least close to market value for their top talent.
You do realize that the 'market value' for RESTRICTED free agents without arbitration rights is 10% over their last base salary, right?

Other Dave

Other Dave is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:19 AM
  #46
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,482
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
You do realize that the 'market value' for RESTRICTED free agents without arbitration rights is 10% over their last base salary, right?

Other Dave
No, that is the minimum amount needed to qualify him. The market value would be what the market is willing to pay for him, hence we would need other teams to stop colluding to find that out.

Freudian is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:25 AM
  #47
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,171
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
You are forgetting one thing. There are plenty of teams in the league that has no problems paying good money for a player of Havlats salary if he was a member of their organization. So it woudn't bite them in the ass since they always were prepared to pay their top talent the money. Do you seriously think TB would have a problem offering Havlat a good contract when they already did it with Richards? Do you think Rangers would be foreign to playing a young star that gets 1 PPG 2-2.5M a year? So it wouldn't cost those teams anything in the future since they are only offering a contract at a level they already are at.

If there was no collusion Havlat would already have a contract offer from another team and you know it. And if Ottawa were to risk losing him to a rival they would be much more careful about issuing ultimatums.

Anyway, seems like Ottawa got their wish. Havlat is going home for the season.
There still isn't any benefit for a team to make a qualifying offer. There's virtually zero chance of it succeeding, and the GM looks foolish. It's like trying to select someone at the entry draft who isn't elibile until the following year. Ask Dudley how that worked out for him.

discostu is online now  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:31 AM
  #48
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,482
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
There still isn't any benefit for a team to make a qualifying offer. There's virtually zero chance of it succeeding, and the GM looks foolish. It's like trying to select someone at the entry draft who isn't elibile until the following year. Ask Dudley how that worked out for him.
Of course there is a benefit. There is a chance that the other team value the picks more than the player, and since you made the offer you value the player more than the picks. Thus picks and players change place and both teams get what they prefer.

And the GMs wouldn't look foolish if it was common practice. They would look exactly as foolish as GMs who take people off the waiver list does, ie not at all.

Freudian is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:35 AM
  #49
BruinsGirl
Registered User
 
BruinsGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bruinsville, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,159
vCash: 500
Last year many of you said that Havlat is better player than Samsonov...well Samsonov "finally" agreed for 3.5(probably 3.6) + bonuses...

IMHO (because I still like Sammy more than Havlat but also respect Havlat very much) his salary should be at least 2.5 mil anything less than 2 mil would be super lowballing.

I would sign him before signing Smolinski for sure!

And if not in the regular season then in the playoffs Sens will MISS him!

The same NJ Devils will have to shut down less scoring lines.

BruinsGirl is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 07:43 AM
  #50
Mothra
Registered User
 
Mothra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7,357
vCash: 500
Not sure if this has been brought up.....but.....

maybe part of this is not only about the bottom line in terms of $$. Havlat has missed all of camp/pre-season. Rarely does a player miss all of that (especially a young player) and then pick up right where he left off the previous season. In most (almost all?) cases his season is pretty much a waste. At least the first half or so....also, it seems like they are more prone to nagging type injuries as well (groins, etc).

I know GMGM in Washington has stated that he might have to come up with a policy about holdouts for this very reason.....he hinted that if they were not in camp by a certain date, they would miss the whole season....and they would re-visit negotiations the following off-season. Seems extreme.....but I can understand

If Havlat signs...even today....I do not expect a very good season from him. By mid season he should be back on his game.....and in the playoffs of course.....but his stats will be down IMO

Mothra is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.