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Sylvain Lefebvre Discussion

View Poll Results: Should the Habs Re-Sign Sylvain Lefebvre
Yes 7 3.03%
No, time for change 192 83.12%
Who's Sylvain Lefebvre? 10 4.33%
I'd rather pick my Nose than Care about this poll 22 9.52%
Voters: 231. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-24-2015, 02:20 PM
  #51
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunk World Order View Post
We need a offensive minded coach to help these guys develop
With Scherbak and McCarron we can't afford any mistakes, lots riding on the future of these two imo. Hopefully management agrees.

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01-24-2015, 03:05 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
There is a lot between the lines of what Bergevin said right there. That he talked to that team at all says something. I'd be "shocked" at this point if Lefebvre was back. Barring some kind of late-season surge or playoff run for the Bulldogs.
If Bergevin was truly interested in how well the team is doing, he'd sign more AHL veterans and would make more of an effort to improve the dogs. He'd hire a coach like Boucher or Groulx. He'd give his coach the freedom to use his own system.

If you do the complete opposite of that ... you can't be disappointed that the team isn't getting results.

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01-24-2015, 03:48 PM
  #53
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This poll looks similar to the results of elections in countries with a dictator

Don't re-sign him, I'm surprised he hasn't been fired. Our prospects regress under him and the way he allocated ice time doesn't make much sense. Career AHLers shouldn't be playing more than NHL prospects

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01-24-2015, 03:52 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Louise View Post
If Bergevin was truly interested in how well the team is doing, he'd sign more AHL veterans and would make more of an effort to improve the dogs. He'd hire a coach like Boucher or Groulx. He'd give his coach the freedom to use his own system.

If you do the complete opposite of that ... you can't be disappointed that the team isn't getting results.
You realize the Dogs have MORE than the AHL allowed amount of vets and guys are literally sitting out of the lineup when healthy right?

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01-24-2015, 04:21 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Simple question, do you want him back or not?

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Old
01-24-2015, 04:34 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
People forget Sylvain Lefebvre is forced to use the same system as the Habs.

It would be the same for Boucher or Groulx and that's why they would never take the job.
Team Spirit is Correct. that's how the Minors work.

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Old
01-24-2015, 06:07 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
You realize the Dogs have MORE than the AHL allowed amount of vets and guys are literally sitting out of the lineup when healthy right?
So you're saying the roster says we should be an elite team in the AHL?

Also I was mostly going by this article :


"After two miserable seasons, Bergevin could've signed a bunch of big-ticket AHL veterans in the offseason to end the dry spell. But he says he'd rather sprinkle the lineup with a few older guys simply to provide some production, but also guidance and leadership to the kids. "

Seems like MB himself thinks more could have been done roster wise. But if you know better than MB... I mean.. I am sure you're amazing and all... not gonna argue with you.

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01-24-2015, 06:29 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess View Post
Bergevin already said that he was happy with the work Lefebvre is doing, he is being forced to use Therriens system and his primary objective is to prepare players for the NHL. I don't think this poll will change his mind.
No wonder the bulldogs are mediocre. I have alot of faith in Bergevin but his choice in coaches is just horrible.

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01-24-2015, 07:02 PM
  #59
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Hell yes nose picking is beating out Lefebvre.

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Old
01-24-2015, 10:36 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
You realize the Dogs have MORE than the AHL allowed amount of vets and guys are literally sitting out of the lineup when healthy right?
How can they have more than they're allowed to have?

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Old
01-25-2015, 01:04 AM
  #61
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How can they have more than they're allowed to have?
I guess the limit is on the ice. i.e. They have more but have to sit some for games.

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01-25-2015, 01:46 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
great, **** you too!

Who cares about the leafs? what do they have to do with Lefebvre?

Do you think Bergevin would say to the media, the guy I hired sucks?

What about Lefebvre do you think he's doing a good job at?
my point is that every time we call up somebody from hamilton, they perform to expectations (if your expectations are realistic) or perform above expectations. that's my point. i don't care if they lose, i don't care if they win, it's a farm team, and in that regard, i am satisfied.

most people that said yes, he should be fired probably have probably never even watched a bulldog game, they look at the record, say **** him, he's bad, or they have these insane expectations of tinordi and beaulieu and blame him for them not being first pairing guys, some were even penciling them in the lineup last season! considering where they were drafted, their position and the usual progression of young defensemen, this is completely unrealistic

like i said, i don't watch the bulldogs, so i can't comment on lefebvre as a coach, what i can comment on, is that the bulldogs are training our rookies to my expectations, and that, is enough for me.

and besides, the "everything is the coaches fault" disease on this board grates my nerves...

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01-25-2015, 11:31 AM
  #63
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What would everyone think of Dominic Ducharme from the Halifax Mooseheads if the Dogs are in need of a new coach?

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Old
01-25-2015, 11:35 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
How can they have more than they're allowed to have?
there's no limit on players, just a limit on how many you can dress (and in term of how many vets you can dress)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
my point is that every time we call up somebody from hamilton, they perform to expectations (if your expectations are realistic) or perform above expectations. that's my point. i don't care if they lose, i don't care if they win, it's a farm team, and in that regard, i am satisfied.

most people that said yes, he should be fired probably have probably never even watched a bulldog game, they look at the record, say **** him, he's bad, or they have these insane expectations of tinordi and beaulieu and blame him for them not being first pairing guys, some were even penciling them in the lineup last season! considering where they were drafted, their position and the usual progression of young defensemen, this is completely unrealistic

like i said, i don't watch the bulldogs, so i can't comment on lefebvre as a coach, what i can comment on, is that the bulldogs are training our rookies to my expectations, and that, is enough for me.

and besides, the "everything is the coaches fault" disease on this board grates my nerves...
Management is at fault in this too. But I can't say I agree that every time we call someone up they perform to expectations (although that is a very subjective term of course) But let's take a look at the last 2 years,

Thomas- 5 0-0-0 -3
Beaulieu- 47 0-6-6 +9 27 pims
Tinordi- 31 0-4-4 -7 47 pims
Andrighetto 12 2-1-3 E
Bournival 75 9-8-17 -7 18 pims
Nattinen 1 0-0-0 E
Dumont 2 0-0-0 E
Holland 5 0-0-0 E
Leblanc 4 0-0-0 +1 4 pims

St. Pierre 1 0-0-0 E
Blunden 7 0-0-0 -2 5 pims
Bowman 3 0-0-0 E
Tangradi 7 0-0-0 -3 17 pims

That's 200 NHL games over the last 2 years, 200-11-19-30 -12 120 pims If you take out Bournival's hot start in Oct last season those numbers drop to just 5 goals from mid Nov 2013 to today.

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01-25-2015, 11:39 AM
  #65
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I think it's possible the Habs brass is micro-managing the coaching in Hamilton a bit too much. He is forced to use the exact same system, after all, and I can imagine he isn't given much flexibility.

Not exactly sure what a coaching change would bring to that team...

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01-25-2015, 11:44 AM
  #66
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Not exactly sure what a coaching change would bring to that team...
A PP that shows improvement over time, better results from our AHL call ups, looking better overall on the ice. That would be a good start.

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01-25-2015, 11:47 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Louise View Post
So you're saying the roster says we should be an elite team in the AHL?

Also I was mostly going by this article :




"After two miserable seasons, Bergevin could've signed a bunch of big-ticket AHL veterans in the offseason to end the dry spell. But he says he'd rather sprinkle the lineup with a few older guys simply to provide some production, but also guidance and leadership to the kids. "

Seems like MB himself thinks more could have been done roster wise. But if you know better than MB... I mean.. I am sure you're amazing and all... not gonna argue with you.
Not saying I know better than MB but I would bet money I've watched more Hamilton games than he. He's taking the word of what Lefebvre is telling him. The Dogs had a losing record when Hudon, Andrighetto and Hensick were PPG players and Condon/Mac were both playing great and Lefebvre had Tinordi, Beaulieu, Nygren Pateryn and Drewiske to work with. Has nothing to do with who was signed to be AHL depth. It's poor coaching.

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01-25-2015, 12:00 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
I think it's possible the Habs brass is micro-managing the coaching in Hamilton a bit too much. He is forced to use the exact same system, after all, and I can imagine he isn't given much flexibility.

Not exactly sure what a coaching change would bring to that team...
Even if that's the case, Therrien is with the habs for another 3 seasons, so if you're the GM and that's the strategy, you get a coaching staff that can manage the farm club with Therrien's approach and get better results.

If Lefebvre & Co. are good at coaching they'll get another job somewhere else.

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Old
01-25-2015, 12:27 PM
  #69
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With Scherbak and McCarron we can't afford any mistakes, lots riding on the future of these two imo. Hopefully management agrees.
Scherbak won't see a day in the AHL is my prediction. So it's more about De La Rose, Fucale, Hudon, Andrighetto, Audette, 2015-2016 top rounders.

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01-25-2015, 02:23 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
I think it's possible the Habs brass is micro-managing the coaching in Hamilton a bit too much. He is forced to use the exact same system, after all, and I can imagine he isn't given much flexibility.

Not exactly sure what a coaching change would bring to that team...
Well, I would think that ideally you use the same system... from the perspective of wanting to call up a player and having that player just slot in seamlessly to the big league team.

But...

*If* your system is really a very minimalist/conservative one which might be described as "dump and chase" (or even just "dump") and you are really striving to limit risk, sacrifice possession and skill, etc... then I would question whether the "standard model" of matching a minor league system to the major league system is the right approach.

In the NHL sometimes you just want to figure out ways to win, and maybe playing a conservative style is a way to do this. In the minors, however, the emphasis has to be on player development. Having callups fit seamlessly into the lineup of the major league team would be nice too, but I think if you are making a priority call then it should be on the development angle, and you should not just be playing a conservative style that limits skill development. And anyway, whereas the Habs are winning with their conservative style, the Bulldogs aren't. So you're not winning, and you're consciously sacrificing skill development in order to conform with a small advantage to having players slot onto the major league roster more easily when called up? That's dumb.

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01-25-2015, 04:50 PM
  #71
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Scherbak won't see a day in the AHL is my prediction. So it's more about De La Rose, Fucale, Hudon, Andrighetto, Audette, 2015-2016 top rounders.
perhaps, but I hope that management doesn't go into the off-season and think might as well just bring him back if Scherbak plays in the NHL next year. Same for McCarron. To me they need to plan as if we are going to have a good incoming rookie class to Hamilton, hence why I am so concerned about changing the current coaching staff as I don't want any mistakes with our 2 best prospects (Scherbak/McCarron)

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01-25-2015, 04:57 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
there's no limit on players, just a limit on how many you can dress (and in term of how many vets you can dress)



Management is at fault in this too. But I can't say I agree that every time we call someone up they perform to expectations (although that is a very subjective term of course) But let's take a look at the last 2 years,

Thomas- 5 0-0-0 -3
Beaulieu- 47 0-6-6 +9 27 pims
Tinordi- 31 0-4-4 -7 47 pims
Andrighetto 12 2-1-3 E
Bournival 75 9-8-17 -7 18 pims
Nattinen 1 0-0-0 E
Dumont 2 0-0-0 E
Holland 5 0-0-0 E
Leblanc 4 0-0-0 +1 4 pims

St. Pierre 1 0-0-0 E
Blunden 7 0-0-0 -2 5 pims
Bowman 3 0-0-0 E
Tangradi 7 0-0-0 -3 17 pims

That's 200 NHL games over the last 2 years, 200-11-19-30 -12 120 pims If you take out Bournival's hot start in Oct last season those numbers drop to just 5 goals from mid Nov 2013 to today.
Very interesting compilation.

That said, just looking at points and pims is pretty limited.

A lot of these guys were called just to fill holes with no expectations of doing anything.

And can you say that the lack of points from Beaulieu/Tinordi is on Lefebvre ? They're young dmen... and Beaulieu is progressing well on a top team logging big minutes. He's not getting too many points.. I don't know if that's on anyone really...

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01-25-2015, 05:04 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Not saying I know better than MB but I would bet money I've watched more Hamilton games than he. He's taking the word of what Lefebvre is telling him. The Dogs had a losing record when Hudon, Andrighetto and Hensick were PPG players and Condon/Mac were both playing great and Lefebvre had Tinordi, Beaulieu, Nygren Pateryn and Drewiske to work with. Has nothing to do with who was signed to be AHL depth. It's poor coaching.
Let's look at the wing farm club. How are they doing ? Barely better than us. Is the goal to have the bulldogs doing really well ?

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01-25-2015, 05:05 PM
  #74
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Quote:
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Very interesting compilation.

That said, just looking at points and pims is pretty limited.

A lot of these guys were called just to fill holes with no expectations of doing anything.

And can you say that the lack of points from Beaulieu/Tinordi is on Lefebvre ? They're young dmen... and Beaulieu is progressing well on a top team logging big minutes. He's not getting too many points.. I don't know if that's on anyone really...
The Habs are one of the best teams in the NHL, their biggest weakness is their lack of goal scoring, so calling up AHL guys and have them struggle to put the puck in the net hurts the team. Beaulieu has struggled with his lack of progress until he was paired with Gonchar, he was drafted for his offense but until his last call up he had numerous mistakes and costly turnovers that this team can't afford if they want to continue to be among the top teams in the league.

For me it's a concern that the farm system isn't producing at a better clip when we know we have one of the best scouts in the NHL but the results aren't there which to me points more to the development of said players on the farm.

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01-25-2015, 05:21 PM
  #75
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Is the goal to have the bulldogs doing really well ?
The goal needs to be a hybrid one. There are interdependencies. You probably can't always have everything. But it sure would be nice. Ideally you want these things (what others?):
- develop your young players into good NHLers
- serve as a useful pool of immediate replacement players for the NHL team
- win: because winning means playing more games against good teams in a good environment, and ultimately contributes to the first point of better developing players...

Boucher's team pretty much succeeded at having everything. Most of the good players were young ones, there were some veterans, esp. the goalies, Glumac, Henry... but they all meshed, won games, and the Habs ultimately benefited with players graduating. I don't think the goal of winning is even remotely mutually exclusive with developing players for the big team. It's just self-limiting if you say you're satisfied with developing players and who cares about winning. You can have both, so go for both. The team that won in 2007 wasn't stocked with a whole bunch of veteran AHL gunslingers either.

The AHL can be somewhat cyclical, not as bad as junior, say, but to be sure there are going to be years when your prospects are a little greener than other years. So I am sympathetic with a year down here and there. But I guess to me, Lefebvre has had a pretty full cycle available to him, and I thought maybe this team ought to be ready to accomplish a little more in Year 3 than they have thus far.

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