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Old
10-16-2005, 12:32 AM
  #1
phishman3579
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What changed?

If Sather had it in him to put together a team like this then why did it take so long? This is the team Sather coached/GM'd in Edmonton! Did he have to learn from his mistakes (all flash and no filling)? This team is 99% different than any Ranger team I have seen since the mid-90s?

This isn't hypothetical? I have been trying to put my finger on it but just can't see any real reason?

We have a coach that plays the players who earn time. We have a team full of young and hungry player. We have a GM that has seemed to get some gems that other teams gave up on.

My theory is, the year off gave him time to really see what he created. I am just surprised it turned around soo quickly. I am not saying we are going to win the cup but this team looks GREAT!

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10-16-2005, 12:36 AM
  #2
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veterans who have always been gamers + hungry young guys = current rangers success

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10-16-2005, 12:44 AM
  #3
MisterUnspoken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX
veterans who have always been gamers + hungry young guys = current rangers success
Pretty much but Tom Renney has done a great job too setting up those little incremental success goals for them.

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10-16-2005, 12:55 AM
  #4
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I just hope this continues. My worry about the Rangers is that eventually they'll stop being able to get those effort goals and that they won't have enough talent to get the skill goals (plus the PP isn't very good, I believe worse than the numbers). Hopefully the D keeps up though. As I said in a different thread it's easier to keep up good defense than offense.

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10-16-2005, 12:58 AM
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Sather always did his best work under a budget. In Edmonton, he knew he only had a certain amount of money to spend, and built cheap teams that could win. Once he got to NYC, he was able to spend freely, and lost track of what got him his reputation in the first place.

Now, with the cap, Slats has a budget again, and needs to use his smarts to set up his squad. In essence, it's what he had to do in Edmonton all over again.

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10-16-2005, 01:00 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRGoalieGlut
I just hope this continues. My worry about the Rangers is that eventually they'll stop being able to get those effort goals and that they won't have enough talent to get the skill goals (plus the PP isn't very good, I believe worse than the numbers). Hopefully the D keeps up though. As I said in a different thread it's easier to keep up good defense than offense.

Hard work will more likely then not lead to goals (see Ranger games starting Oct. 5)...sure sometimes we'll run into a hot goalie but if the teams plays like they have been in the past 2 weeks then we should be racking up quite a few W's. If our team doesn't play with heart for a game then we can pretty much assume that is a lost game (see Capital game).

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10-16-2005, 05:20 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert
Sather always did his best work under a budget. In Edmonton, he knew he only had a certain amount of money to spend, and built cheap teams that could win. Once he got to NYC, he was able to spend freely, and lost track of what got him his reputation in the first place.

Now, with the cap, Slats has a budget again, and needs to use his smarts to set up his squad. In essence, it's what he had to do in Edmonton all over again.
Couldn't say it better myself .

Slats thought he could buy a Stanley Cup, because, well, thats what he thought other teams were doing when he was in Edmonton. He learned the hard way that talent can't win cups, and you need a good mix of youth, speed, skill, grinding, and most importantly, there needs to be accountability. Before, players never got benched, and now Poti and Lundmark already have received benchings.

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10-16-2005, 05:54 AM
  #8
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It helps when the coach has a clue and the aura of Mark Messier is not around anymore.Every coach deferred to Mark.John Muckler(didn't coach Mark in NY but he was a horrible coach),Ron Low,Bryan Trottier,Glen Sather.

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10-16-2005, 06:40 AM
  #9
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I concur. Renney and his staff are doing a good job. One thing that helps though is that are not a lot of veteran holdovers from the times we were a country club. But yes Low and Trottier and Sather himself were horrible.

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10-16-2005, 07:32 AM
  #10
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People also have to understand that it is hard to assemble a true winning team. You need alot of key ingredients and some of them can't be paid for which is what Sather has been trying to do. He might have gotten it right this year, but as stated above, just look back at the Capitals game, and you can understand how fragile this team still is. Only time will tell, but if they gel, and the coaching staff stays committed, they should do very well.

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10-16-2005, 09:37 AM
  #11
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I think that Straka said it best last night

inbetween periods he spoke to Al Trout-Wig and made a comment about the team seeing alot of coverage that called for them to finish dead last and that they took that as a direct knock against the Czech players as there's a large grouping of them on the team.

If you notice, 4 ot the top 5 scorers thus far are Czech's

2 of our defenceman that have played better than I expected them to play are also Czech's

I think that they took the critisizm personally and have come out determined to show that they can be better than alot of people gave them credit for.

I know I'm one of the Critic's. Didn't think that Straka would be this solid, nor did I believe that either Malik or Rozsival would be as steady as they have been

I just hope that they continue to play strong and sound hockey

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10-16-2005, 10:11 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
If our team doesn't play with heart for a game then we can pretty much assume that is a lost game (see Capital game).
Even with the Caps game, it wasn't like they were blown out of the building like times past. If we don't give up that last second goal at the end of the 2nd period we might have not lost.

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10-16-2005, 10:12 AM
  #13
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Its not that Sather thought he could buy the Stanley cup. he was being told he had to. In past years Sather had been under pressure from Dolan to go out and get players. He was being told that was how they were going to build the team. Like the Holik signing ... he didn't wana give him that much money but Dolan told him he had to sign him.

I don't agree with most of the people on this board about hating Sather. I don't think its his fault the moron owner of the team is making him go out and get players. I like him and i think he will build a winner here.

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10-16-2005, 10:26 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KFC
Its not that Sather thought he could buy the Stanley cup. he was being told he had to. In past years Sather had been under pressure from Dolan to go out and get players. He was being told that was how they were going to build the team. Like the Holik signing ... he didn't wana give him that much money but Dolan told him he had to sign him.

I don't agree with most of the people on this board about hating Sather. I don't think its his fault the moron owner of the team is making him go out and get players. I like him and i think he will build a winner here.
I really don't believe that although I have heard it multiple times. Time and time again Sather has said that it's his time win or lose. I also don't think that Sather would take a job where he would be just a pawn; with his reputation he could have gone anywhere.

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10-16-2005, 10:34 AM
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One of the main things I have seen is the dominance of the vets. Jagr was a given, but Rucinsky, Straka, Rucchin and Nylander have all been dominating on the ice(except for in Washington). Plus we have never had rookies step in and be ready to perform(Moore, Prucha, Kondratiev, Lundqvist). Plus don't forget about a staple on the D who will take over as the #2 d-man and he is Tyutin. This new NHL is set up for the lazy vets who just wan't to concentrate on the "O", if this was 2003-4 we would not have gotten any points against the Devils(with that nasty trap they had) and probably would've cracked after getting down to the Flyers(those lazy vets would've just packed it in defensively).

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10-16-2005, 10:38 AM
  #16
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Coaching has a lot...

to do with it, and Renney and his staff have come a long way since they seemed unprepared for their first preseason game, but have more than made up for that ever since. Other teams do not seem overly prepared and perhaps the fact that so many Rangers know each other helped too, although that advantage, if it is one, will run out as the season progresses. And the team's doing this with hard work - having guys like Moore, Betts, Ortmeyer, Nienimen, Ward and Straka as the bottom six lines helps. Finally, the goaltending has mostly been there. The trick is to look like this in December, January and March too.

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10-16-2005, 10:39 AM
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A huge difference between this ranger team and ranger teams of more recent years is that this team (for the most part) is starting to do the little things correctly, things that constantly plagued the rangers in the past. i didnt realize it until i went to see the devils at the rangers last thursday, they used the boards to clear the puck, they cleared the crease, they stayed away from the retaliation penalties that killed us in the past, they won faceoffs, they went to the net and even crashed it at times with mutliple players, they rolled all four lines, the cleared the puck out of the zone, When our goalie gave up rebounds the center or the wingers were close by to clear them, and etc etc

this has alot to do with renney who i must admit i was wrong about because i questioned if he would take charge of this team, make them hustle, make them play smart hockey, and bench those who didnt perform, so far he is up to the task, but alot of it has to do with keeping it simple, alot of these kids arent trying to hard to make the perfect play, instead they are clearing the zone, dumping it it and chasing, cycling deep, and etc

there are still issues, i worry about this teams toughness down the stretch, we will need someone to stand up for teamates because bigger teams will start to run us and guys like moore and ortmeyer and kasper arent really deterents

also we need to be careful not to get caught up in the speed game, i saw two really bad drop passes where our team was flying up ice and we got trapped, this ranger team is fast but they need to use the speed to their advantage and avoid blind or bad passes because our team will be in the offensive zone very fast leading to situations where we could easily get trapped up ice

and the defense malik and poti both worry me, and the fact that kondratiev, poti, and tyutin all like to wonder up ice even when we have a lead really bothers me, when we were beating the devils 3-0 poti and tyutin were making rushes up ice, and on the powerplay renney was still playing straka on the point on powerplays, i mean two defensemen should man the points when u have a large lead

roszival, kondratiev, tyutin, and kasper have all looked good, malik is getting better, but poti has been disapointing

overall this team is leaps ahead of where id expect them to be and alot of it has to do with good coaching and young players who will work hard and keep it simple, plus the fact that our team is giving time to players who earn it really makes players work even harder

one point to show the difference in this team would be that renney adjustment last nite putting niemmen on the top line to go head to head with marian hossa in an attempt to shadow him, and it was a smart move in that hossa didnt score and niemmen netted a goal... can you even remember the last time the rangers made an in game adjustment to shut down a top player in the last few years?

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10-16-2005, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishman3579
I really don't believe that although I have heard it multiple times. Time and time again Sather has said that it's his time win or lose. I also don't think that Sather would take a job where he would be just a pawn; with his reputation he could have gone anywhere.
He probably said that cause thats what he was told... and he and Dolan are good friends so he came here plus he probably makes a ton, he wasn't a pawn he just had no choice in the direction the team was going. he still made the trades and decided what players to go after for the most part(holik) he was just told though this team had to win and he had to get markee players and goal scorers. i would think though that dolan has given him control of the direction of the team now though, i think this rebuild and his work for sure... if this fails its on his head, but i dnt think it will because i think hes a great gm whwn allowed to do things his way

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10-16-2005, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
to do with it, and Renney and his staff have come a long way since they seemed unprepared for their first preseason game, but have more than made up for that ever since. Other teams do not seem overly prepared and perhaps the fact that so many Rangers know each other helped too, although that advantage, if it is one, will run out as the season progresses. And the team's doing this with hard work - having guys like Moore, Betts, Ortmeyer, Nienimen, Ward and Straka as the bottom six lines helps. Finally, the goaltending has mostly been there. The trick is to look like this in December, January and March too.


I agree i love Renney i think he is a really good coach

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10-16-2005, 10:44 AM
  #20
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Just to remind everyone, we were looking at a situation very similar to this in 2001. The Rangers were at the top of the conference, and 2nd in the league, only this time through 25 games.

Don't be too quick to jump on the playoff wagon just yet. Please.

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10-16-2005, 11:01 AM
  #21
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I'm glad...

someone besides me is saying that BigE...I was started to feel lonely.

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10-16-2005, 11:12 AM
  #22
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Im not saying this is a playoff team, its very early, our defense is still suspect, we are scoring alot and getting good goaltending and we havent run into any hot goalies

the only thing i will say is that if we can stay healthy, get good goaltending, and hustle/compete everynite theres no reason we cant make the playoffs, but those are 3 big ifs

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10-16-2005, 11:32 AM
  #23
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What many here have failed to realize is that Sather

Quote:
Originally Posted by phishman3579
If Sather had it in him to put together a team like this then why did it take so long? This is the team Sather coached/GM'd in Edmonton! Did he have to learn from his mistakes (all flash and no filling)? This team is 99% different than any Ranger team I have seen since the mid-90s?

This isn't hypothetical? I have been trying to put my finger on it but just can't see any real reason?

We have a coach that plays the players who earn time. We have a team full of young and hungry player. We have a GM that has seemed to get some gems that other teams gave up on.

My theory is, the year off gave him time to really see what he created. I am just surprised it turned around soo quickly. I am not saying we are going to win the cup but this team looks GREAT!
is very much old school. He is very loyal to people and trust those people many times more than they deserve to be trusted. See Ron Low, etc.

The next thing is that he takes time to establish trust. Renney came in, his 1st appointment and it tool time for Sather to really trust him. Sather knew that times had changed, hence Renney being brought in. Renney was given charge of restructuring the development portion of the organization. Many fans on here have refused to acknowledge this as a seperate endeavor. What you are seeing now is the first fruits of that effort.

With Renney having shown Sather that he was a trusted aide he was granted more input. This is clearly shown in Sather allowing him to select his own coaching staff. Look at the previous coaches in both EDMONTON & NY if you don't agree. Under Renney's drafts the organization may not have had the super prospects that we all want, but what Renneyand his staff have done is bring into the organization a specific type of player. If you are going to play for the rangers you need to have speed, you need to have grit, you need to play both ends of the ice.

Don Maloney also deserves some credit. Renney and Maloney work well together. There appears to be no competition between them. They both operate on the same page knowing that if things go as planned there is enough credit for everyone.

Don't discount what effect Dolan has had in all of the miss steps. Again, many fans on here have refused to acknowledge that there are always dual agendas going on. The mentality has always been to sell this team as an entertainment unit first, champion contender second. The Dolan's have been no different than any of the previous owners. All have been in the entertainment business. All have had MSG & the MSG Network as the key components in the organization.

This change we are seeing this year didn't happen overnight. It took years to accomplish and is far from complete. Sather has hired some outstanding people on the development end of the business. Piece by piece all of this has come together and not by accident. Every major NY team has the same problem. You have to put a product on the field that the advertizes will buy time for and pay premo $$$ for.
Look at how we have marketed this team this year. Is NJ or LI doing the same? They are making a sincere effort to tell the fans they made some mistakes.

Renney has changed the whole attitude by starting where you have to start first, by the drafting of a specific type of player with a specific type of attitude. We then did something that this organization has never done, stuck to its plan no matter the cry from the fans were. As we go forward with this year and the next 2-3 those that were blinded by their igornace and bias will finally have acknowledge what was going on.

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10-16-2005, 11:36 AM
  #24
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Please take a look at the 2001 squad before making

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
Just to remind everyone, we were looking at a situation very similar to this in 2001. The Rangers were at the top of the conference, and 2nd in the league, only this time through 25 games.

Don't be too quick to jump on the playoff wagon just yet. Please.
any sort of comparison. That team lacked depth at every position, it was based on an over aged leader and an injury prone center piece. The comparisons couldn't be further off and unjustified.

I'm not saying this team will make the playoffs. What I am saying is that this team plays with a purpose and an effort unseen in over a decade.

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10-16-2005, 11:51 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
any sort of comparison. That team lacked depth at every position, it was based on an over aged leader and an injury prone center piece. The comparisons couldn't be further off and unjustified.

I'm not saying this team will make the playoffs. What I am saying is that this team plays with a purpose and an effort unseen in over a decade.
I agree; this team really feals different.

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