HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Marian Hossa - Best Player in the NHL?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-30-2003, 05:21 PM
  #1
officeglen
Registered User
 
officeglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,268
vCash: 500
Marian Hossa - Best Player in the NHL?

On tonight's telecast from Detroit, with Red Wing commentators (unable to name Sens players so saying things like 'the two white sweaters get the puck out of their zone') there was a surprising thing said in the second period, coming from the broadcasters of a team as good as the Red Wings.

The color commentator said that Hossa was arguably the best player in the NHL now, though also said that Forsberg was the best player in the NHL last season. He also said the Sens will need to tear up his contract and ink Hossa to a new one after this season, once the CBA dust has settled.

McKeens is predicting Hossa as third in scoring (101 points), just behind Joe Thornton (103), and Sakic (106), though they predict Hossa will lead the league in goals (52). Sports Forecaster has him predicted as #15 overall (47 goals, 84 points), behind Havlat (#13, 36 goals, 86 points), and way behind Forsberg (27 goals, 108 points), Bertuzzi (51 goals, 106 points), and Joe Thornton (40 goals, 103 points).

We all love Hossa here (the player and the mod), but is this 24 year old the best player in the league? I would like to wait another season or two before making that statement. Comments please?

officeglen is online now  
Old
09-30-2003, 05:35 PM
  #2
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,144
vCash: 500
No.. but it won't be long until he is.

I get the feeling Hossa will score about 40 goals & 80 points next year again, but who knows - he could do much better. I've always felt that in a few years, Hossa will be amongst the best players in the league.

I feel guys like Lidstrom, Brodeur, Forsberg, Naslund, Modano, and Sakic are a cut above Hossa - but that may not last long!

Mizral is offline  
Old
09-30-2003, 05:40 PM
  #3
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
How ironic... just when I click to open this thread, Marian is scoring the 2nd of his two goals tonight versus the Red Wings. :p

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
09-30-2003, 05:41 PM
  #4
The Mars Volchenkov
Everberg flow
 
The Mars Volchenkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 38,873
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
Pierre McGuire thinks he'll be the most dominating player in the NHL this season so a lot of people think very highly of him. He also said he'll become the league's elite power forward, above Bertuzzi, but many don't believe he is one as we've had threads about that before.

He's not the best now by any means, but could be very soon, IMO.

The Mars Volchenkov is offline  
Old
09-30-2003, 05:44 PM
  #5
south-sentral
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dirtyy South
Posts: 659
vCash: 500
Finally, people are starting to take notice what Hossa is really capable of. The guy bulked up like 20 pounds and is a horse on skates. I dont think he is even close to hitting his prime and I think a 50 goal season is within grasp for sure.

south-sentral is offline  
Old
09-30-2003, 06:02 PM
  #6
officeglen
Registered User
 
officeglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,268
vCash: 500
Sens win 3-1 tonight, Hossa 2 goals, 1 assist. Detroit had their A team. The Sens had their A D minus Chara, and missing Alfie, Spezza, Fisher, Schaefer, and that unsigned guy.

Emery is a sure NHL goaltender - big (6'3 195), great lateral movement, good reflexes, doesn't give up many rebounds.

officeglen is online now  
Old
09-30-2003, 06:17 PM
  #7
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,203
vCash: 500
I don't think Hossa is the best player in the NHL by any stretch, but he is probably top 15 right now. I do think he has a potential to be arguably top 5 over the next couple of seasons, but I think players like Thornton and Heatley have a slightly higher ceiling. Perhaps even Kovalchuk in some ways.

The one thing about Hossa I will say -- and which I've been saying for two years -- is I believe he is the Sens best defensive forward. He is an unquestionable force and the kind of player I would love to build around given his work ethic.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
09-30-2003, 06:53 PM
  #8
Observer
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Depends what you mean by the 'best player'. A number of the players who ended the year with more points than Hossa last year, are defensively inept.

Terms like that (best player, power forward, etc.) are always so subjective - people use them assuming that everyone thinks they mean what they think they mean.

There are those that don't believe Hossa is a power forward because he doesn't goon it up like Bertuzzi does, etc. Others say he is because he mows people down or whips by them and is too big to throw off the puck. I personally don't care what people say he is or isn't.

I've learned to leave it at this: I wouldn't trade Marion Hossa for ANY other player in the league right now. Not Forsberg, not Brodeur, not Naslund, not Sakic... He's young, he's got a fantastic work ethic, he's terrific defensively and explosive offensively, he's a draft and he belongs here with the Sens.

 
Old
09-30-2003, 07:23 PM
  #9
Hossa
Registered User
 
Hossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Abroad
Posts: 9,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
Depends what you mean by the 'best player'. A number of the players who ended the year with more points than Hossa last year, are defensively inept.

Terms like that (best player, power forward, etc.) are always so subjective - people use them assuming that everyone thinks they mean what they think they mean.

There are those that don't believe Hossa is a power forward because he doesn't goon it up like Bertuzzi does, etc. Others say he is because he mows people down or whips by them and is too big to throw off the puck. I personally don't care what people say he is or isn't.

I've learned to leave it at this: I wouldn't trade Marion Hossa for ANY other player in the league right now. Not Forsberg, not Brodeur, not Naslund, not Sakic... He's young, he's got a fantastic work ethic, he's terrific defensively and explosive offensively, he's a draft and he belongs here with the Sens.
Could not have said it better myself.

Hossa is offline  
Old
09-30-2003, 07:51 PM
  #10
donpaulo
Capt Barry Beck
 
donpaulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: nihon
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,612
vCash: 500
perhaps once he scores 50 and the sens skate with the cup the NHL will give him the label of best overall player.
I agree that he is clearly top 15 material, and I would even go so far to say he is a top 5 winger.

donpaulo is offline  
Old
09-30-2003, 11:38 PM
  #11
golfmade
Go Preds Go
 
golfmade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Idahoan in Taiwan
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 19,706
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
Pierre McGuire thinks he'll be the most dominating player in the NHL this season so a lot of people think very highly of him. He also said he'll become the league's elite power forward, above Bertuzzi, but many don't believe he is one as we've had threads about that before.

He's not the best now by any means, but could be very soon, IMO.
I love Hossa but Thornton is a better and will be a better 'power forward' than Hossa, however as far as 'power wingers' go, Hossa is near the top.

golfmade is offline  
Old
10-01-2003, 04:39 AM
  #12
Hossa
Registered User
 
Hossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Abroad
Posts: 9,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfmade
I love Hossa but Thornton is a better and will be a better 'power forward' than Hossa, however as far as 'power wingers' go, Hossa is near the top.
Thornton may be a better power forward in terms of brute force, but Hossa is a more complete player. Hossa is a clutch player, who plays great defence and never stops working. Thornton's not a cherry-picker ala Pavel Bure, but he's not exactly a strong defensive player yet, and his lack playoff success (although possibly because of a lack of team success), is also worth noting.

I'm not saying Hossa's better than Thornton, but just that they are different players. Hossa is a superior goal scorer and all-round player. Thornton is a better set-up man and physical player (although if only becuase he fights). Thornton though, right now, is a superior player. I've said it before and I'll say it again though, it is much closer than most people believe.

Hossa is offline  
Old
10-01-2003, 06:26 AM
  #13
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,367
vCash: 500
It's interesting to hear the outlook for Hossa this year. I think he's a tremendous player, however, I had a suspicion late last year that his performance may dip slightly this year. I had no particular reason why, but I was a hunch that I had.

However, with all the comments that everyone has made about how he looks in pre-season, it's changing my outlook. I have yet to see a pre-season game. Perhaps I'll check the schedule to see if there are any games I can get to this week. If Hossa does go out and improve on his season this year, he will cement his reputation in this league. It then begs an interesting question, which player do you see as having a higher upside, Hossa or Spezza. I think Havlat can be thrown in the mix as well. I think I'll put up a poll on it. I'm sure there has been ones done before, but with both Spezza and Hossa having great training camps, it will be interesting guage.

discostu is offline  
Old
10-01-2003, 07:53 AM
  #14
Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mecca13
Thornton and Bertuzzi are both better than Hossa. I like Hossa, he's future 50-goal man IMO but I'd take those two over him any day.
-Bertuzzi is a liability defensively, Hossa is a defensive force.
-Hossa scores regardless who he plays with (Van Allen or Bonk), Bertuzzi relies a lot on Naslund. Take Naslund away and the difference between them in points is much smaller
-Hossa is a better playoff performer.

Thus IMO Hossa is the superior player.

Volchenkov is offline  
Old
10-01-2003, 08:06 AM
  #15
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,203
vCash: 500
As far as goal scorers go, Hossa gets a slight edge but it's simply not that big of an edge. Thornton has scored more than 35 goals twice already and was on pace for 40 in both of those years if he played a full season, and he could easily score 40 a year for the next 5 years. Hossa scored 45 last year, but had never scored more than 32 goals before last year. Hossa looks to shoot more often, which gives him a few more goals, but I'm not sure he's a better scorer than Joe.

In terms of playmaking, Thornton is a far superior passer and has better vision. He is pretty special in this category. He has turned Murray into a 40 goal scorer and he never scored 30 before playing with Joe. He turned Knuble into a 30 goal scorer and he never scored more than 15. Hossa isn't a bad passer or set-up man by any means, but he isn't special. No one who has ever played with Hossa has scored 30 goals (again, both of Thornton's linemates last year did).

Offensively, Thornton is the better overall player.

Hossa is a better defensive player, but Thornton is stronger, a bigger physical presence and more intimidating. I think these two factors balance out. And they are the same age, so I don't see that as an issue.

It's closer than some probably want to admit, but in the end Thornton is the move valuable player to a team because of his better overall offensive game. He has tremendous offensive balance and is more difficult to shut-down.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
10-01-2003, 08:18 AM
  #16
Observer
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e)
As far as goal scorers go, Hossa gets a slight edge but it's simply not that big of an edge. Thornton has scored more than 35 goals twice already and was on pace for 40 in both of those years if he played a full season, and he could easily score 40 a year for the next 5 years. Hossa scored 45 last year, but had never scored more than 32 goals before last year. Hossa looks to shoot more often, which gives him a few more goals, but I'm not sure he's a better scorer than Joe.

In terms of playmaking, Thornton is a far superior passer and has better vision. He is pretty special in this category. He has turned Murray into a 40 goal scorer and he never scored 30 before playing with Joe. He turned Knuble into a 30 goal scorer and he never scored more than 15. Hossa isn't a bad passer or set-up man by any means, but he isn't special. No one who has ever played with Hossa has scored 30 goals (again, both of Thornton's linemates last year did).

Offensively, Thornton is the better overall player.

Hossa is a better defensive player, but Thornton is stronger, a bigger physical presence and more intimidating. I think these two factors balance out. And they are the same age, so I don't see that as an issue.

It's closer than some probably want to admit, but in the end Thornton is the move valuable player to a team because of his better overall offensive game. He has tremendous offensive balance and is more difficult to shut-down.
I'm not sure Thorton has better vision than Hossa. I also disagree that he's a 'bigger physical presense and more intimidating'. I think Thorton means more to the Bruins than Hossa to the Sens in intangibles. The Sens are not built around any one player. I think Hossa is faster and harder to knock off the puck as well. I agree that Thorton is a better play-maker, but that might also be his position. I think Thorton's passes are stronger as well. But then Hossa's defense is light years ahead of Throton's. The two don't play the same game so I think comparisons are useless anyway. They can keep Thorton and we'll keep Hossa.

(The comparison that drives me crazy sometimes is Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi is highlight reel stuff with big hits and lots of glitzy press, but he's not as good as most think he is. The 'good' one on that team is Naslund!)

 
Old
10-01-2003, 08:32 AM
  #17
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
(The comparison that drives me crazy sometimes is Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi is highlight reel stuff with big hits and lots of glitzy press, but he's not as good as most think he is. The 'good' one on that team is Naslund!)
I disagree about Bertuzzi. Naslund is a supreme talent, but Big Bert's accomplishments shouldn't be diminished. He brings such a physical presence with an elite goal scorer's touch. I believe that Bertuzzi has the biggest impact on how opposing defencemen play. I'd love to have him on this team. If he was the same age as Hossa, with the same contract status, I'd make the trade in a heartbeat.

discostu is offline  
Old
10-01-2003, 09:49 AM
  #18
Observer
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
I disagree about Bertuzzi. Naslund is a supreme talent, but Big Bert's accomplishments shouldn't be diminished. He brings such a physical presence with an elite goal scorer's touch. I believe that Bertuzzi has the biggest impact on how opposing defencemen play. I'd love to have him on this team. If he was the same age as Hossa, with the same contract status, I'd make the trade in a heartbeat.

I think the press plays up 'Big Bert' much more than they do Naslund. And I think it's easy for fans to fall for it - the guy makes big hits that fans love and his style of play is very aggressive and obvious. But between the two, Naslund is the more talented and is not far behind Bertuzzi (if he is at all) when it comes to strength. The difference is that Naslund does not have to rely on that strength alone, so you don't see it as often. Bertuzzi's style is simply to plow D-men over and he does it VERY effectively. But that's all he does. Naslund can pretty much do anything he wants. Plus, he's unquestionably the strongest leader on that team. When he picks up his game, it spurs the other Canucks (including Bertuzzi) into doing the same. When Bertuzzi picks up his game, it doesn't have the same effect.

This isn't to run down Bertuzzi because I would be the first to say that he is a fantastic power forward and would be an asset to most teams. I just think he's overrated and if I had to choose one Canuck, it would be Naslund.

 
Old
10-01-2003, 10:57 AM
  #19
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
...he'll become the league's elite power forward, above Bertuzzi, but many don't believe he is one as we've had threads about that before.

I remember that one...it's because he doesn't fight and rack up 100 or more PIM's a year right? But Iginla is because he fights. LOL...brings back laughing fits when I think about it.

SensGod is offline  
Old
10-01-2003, 12:01 PM
  #20
bert
Registered User
 
bert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,787
vCash: 500
Id take him over Naslund the only forwards right now that I take over Hossa are Forsberg, Iginla, Lemieux, Jagr and Thornton. In terms of trade value the only players in his league right now are Thronton and Heatley.

He is so dynamic so powerful so explosive what a talent.

Bertuzzi and Naslund feed off each other put Hossa with either one of them and he would outscore them in my opinion.

Spezza and Havlat will never be as good as Marian Hossa in his prime. They dont have the physical attributes to go with the skill.

Havlat is to slight and Spezza isnt a good enough skater. They both might have more puck skill but neither have the defensive awarness power and explosivnes.

Plus he is even growing the hockey hair this year what a player.

Whoever Marians center is this year will score over 75 points. I bet bonk is just praying its him.

bert is offline  
Old
10-02-2003, 08:29 AM
  #21
Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,940
vCash: 500
Murray scored 30 goals before he was playing with Thornton. A better example is Mike Knuble scoring 30 goals, after never scoring more than 10 any other season.

Volchenkov is offline  
Old
10-02-2003, 08:57 AM
  #22
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Murray scored 30 goals before he was playing with Thornton. A better example is Mike Knuble scoring 30 goals, after never scoring more than 10 any other season.
When and where was that?

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
10-02-2003, 09:03 AM
  #23
Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e)
When and where was that?
He had 29 goals and 62 points in 78 games in 99 for LA - its not 30 goals, but it basically is. Murray was a solid goal scorer before he hooked up with Thornton. The best example is Knuble, who's previous career high was 15 and only had 15 the previous two seasons.

Volchenkov is offline  
Old
10-02-2003, 09:37 AM
  #24
HF2002
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,840
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
If he was the same age as Hossa, with the same contract status, I'd make the trade in a heartbeat.
Really? Hossa has had more success as a player at a younger age than Bertuzzi did. Granted Bertuzzi was injured but that has to be related to his style of play early on. Hossa's upside seems higher than Bertuzzi but it is hard to compare them as they are two different kinds of players.

HF2002 is offline  
Old
10-02-2003, 09:47 AM
  #25
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HF2002
Really? Hossa has had more success as a player at a younger age than Bertuzzi did. Granted Bertuzzi was injured but that has to be related to his style of play early on. Hossa's upside seems higher than Bertuzzi but it is hard to compare them as they are two different kinds of players.
What I was saying is that if Bertuzzi, at his current level of production, was also the same age and contract status as Hossa, I would take him. It makes the assumption that both would then have the same ability to improve.

discostu is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.