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Lament for Linden.....

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Old
10-18-2005, 12:10 PM
  #1
NYVanfan
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Lament for Linden.....

(NOTE: before I begin, I'd like to start by saying, yes I'm aware we're only 6 games in and the record is good. BUT this is a messageboard for hyper-analystic Canuck freaks and other hockey nerds, so grant me this little hyper-critical indulgance...)

While I feel like a cheatin' spouse for even bringing this up, and perhaps this will be alarming or news to noone, but I fear my boy Trevor is the Canuck big achilles heel right now... Not just becasue he looks bad out there, is on track for zero points and has gone an underwhelming 31 for 69 on the draw through the first 6 games, for a .449 percentage -- BUT, becasue his salary is like a big greasy piece of sausage cloggin up the artery that carries the precious lifeblood of the Canucks' Stanley Cup hopes. $1.55 Trev? I love ya, but ...on the open market you would've been lucky to command Dick Park dough.

Speaking of whom, one need look no farther at this early point in the season than at our newest Canucks Dick and Anson to see how far well spend dough might go, but just out of curiousity I looked this up.... (I know, more Trevor bashing, I feel terrible ...but the stakes are too high to hang onto sentimental threads... )

Players who signed this summer for around Trev's $1.5M or less...

Allison, 1 yr / $1.5
Cassels, 1 yr / $1.5
Gelinas, 2 yr / $1.9
Hrdina, 1 yr / $1.05
Khavanov, 1 yr / $1.25
LeClair, 2 yr / $3.6 (not that far above)
Lindros, 1 yr / $1.55
May, 2 yr / $1.35
McCarty, 2 yr / $1.6
McEachern, 2 yr / $2.1
Selanne, 1 yr / $1
Simpson, 1 yr / $.6
Skoula, 2 yr / $3.15
Stillman, 3 yr / $5.25
Stumpel, 2 yr / $3.25
Therien, 1 yr / $.5
Turgeon, 2 yr / $3
Whitney, 2 yr / $3

Of course, a lot of this is immaterial, as we need a 4th line center or a D -- and most of these guys are top-2 line forwards....still, interesting to compare market value.

you could almost afford May, Therien AND Simpson for what Linden's pulling down...

Further, come January, if you plug Bouck (or some min-salary center) into that 4th line hole, that's an extra $2mm to upgrade the defence (and $3mm or $4mm come the deadline..) YES, I know this is sacrelidge to most, and I'm not necessarily advocating anything drastic, but just sayin' ....

Anyway, he's signed and so that's pretty much that -- plus I'm sure he's going to make me look stupid for even considering this by lighting it up and dominating defensively (right, Trev...? .. )

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10-18-2005, 12:13 PM
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anguscertified
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Linden earns is money from April onwards.

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10-18-2005, 12:14 PM
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well, Linden's contract was signed quite a long time ago, when we signed Jovo, IIRC. That contract was already a pretty big pay cut for him.

If he were to sign a new one now, I'm almost positive it'd be close to the league minimum. No more than $1M anyway.

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Old
10-18-2005, 12:17 PM
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NYVanfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi
Linden earns is money from April onwards.
i'd like nothing more than to believe that ...but unfortunately there's no evidence of it in the past decade..

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10-18-2005, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi
Linden earns is money from April onwards.
I don't really recall him doing anything worthwhile against Calgary.. sure there is behind the scenes leadership but guys like Mike Keane etc can do the same thing for 1/3 the price.

I know a lot of people have a soft spot for Linden because of his past but his time may have gone.. this season will tell though.

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Old
10-18-2005, 12:23 PM
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NYVanfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korczyk
well, Linden's contract was signed quite a long time ago, when we signed Jovo, IIRC. That contract was already a pretty big pay cut for him.

If he were to sign a new one now, I'm almost positive it'd be close to the league minimum. No more than $1M anyway.
ANY chance if he continues to stink it up that he could be convinced to hang 'em up with honour midseason for a plum front office spot, and apply those millions to the defensive needs of the squad? He is pushing 36 ...

believe me, I love the guy and would like nothing more than to see him raise the cup after Marcus ...but might a realistic analysis of their chances put the best money on his money being applied elsewhere...?

Eh, that would be pretty freakin rough if he retired mid-season the year they won the cup...

If he's injured, does his salary apply to the cap? maybe we could have Ruutu cheap shot him in practice and have him out just until the playoffs? Trying to be creative here....

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Old
10-18-2005, 12:32 PM
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If he's injured, does his salary apply to the cap? maybe we could have Ruutu cheap shot him in practice and have him out just until the playoffs? Trying to be creative here....
Even rutuu isnt that cheap...right?

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10-18-2005, 12:38 PM
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the best bang for buck DOM HASEK ... i think he is only around 1.5... or less

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10-18-2005, 12:43 PM
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Something of note. He isn't being played a lot right now. Strickly a forth line role and a pk specialist. Which is exactly what we need right now of him. So with his lack of playtime(compared to what we normally would get out of him) and his 4th line teammates I can understand it might be taking him longer to get back into the flow of things.

I agree playoffs is where we need him and if we can continue to give him low minutes now he will be in full shape to be a workhorse in the playoffs.

You say he wasn't all that effective in last years playoffs? He was also vastly overworked last year in the regular season and couldn't be fully effective by the time playoffs came around. Heck even Crawford admitted to that.

The only area right now that I want him to improve on is his faceoff wins! We do need that. Points will come.

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10-18-2005, 01:09 PM
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Linden will sign for around 800,000 after this season, cutting his salary in half, just so he can finish his career as a Canuck.

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10-18-2005, 01:15 PM
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Losing Linden would be a bad thing for this team.

I think he'll be to the Canucks what Lanny McDonald and Jim Peplinski were to the Flames in 88. He may not be viable to log top 6 minutes anymore, but he's a rallying point for this team.

Stats aren't everything.

As for his contract - who cares? The team is under the cap now. Deadline deals? Again, who cares? The examples of deadline deals that lead to Cup victories in recent history are few and far between. Cutting character guys like Linden just so you can bring in a middling defenseman (and $2M salary is most likely going to get you just that) would be a net loss for this team, imo.

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10-18-2005, 01:38 PM
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Dana Murzyn
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Blasphemy!

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10-18-2005, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan
( )
you will burn for the thought.

Linden is worth every penny he is paid. I wouldnt care if he took up 4m in cap space, I would never advocate signing anyone else at his expense. Anyone. Yes, Anyone.

DR

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10-18-2005, 01:41 PM
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Dana Murzyn
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But in all seriousness, weve got to remember, not only was Linden inactive hockey-wise last season, he had a pretty gruelling year. Remember how he looked during that whole negotiation? Drawn face, pale skin, sagging eyes. The guy was in hell. Its going to take him some time to regain form.

And even if hes strictly a character/4th line guy from here on out, hes still the soul of the team. Just imagine how satisfying it will be to see him lift that cup...

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Old
10-18-2005, 01:45 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAuldie
I don't really recall him doing anything worthwhile against Calgary.. sure there is behind the scenes leadership but guys like Mike Keane etc can do the same thing for 1/3 the price.

I know a lot of people have a soft spot for Linden because of his past but his time may have gone.. this season will tell though.
Ask the Sedins how effective Linden was against Calgary. The Sedins were invisible for the first four-plus games. Once Crawford put Linden on the Sedin line midway through Game 5, the Sedins were completely different players. Thanks to Linden's physical play, they had room to play their style of hockey. Sanderson and Rucinsky couldn't get the job done. Linden did. Linden was also one of the best players on the ice in Game 6.

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10-18-2005, 01:48 PM
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Linden does a lot more for this team behind the scenes. Whenever you see him on the bench, he is talking to Kesler. In many articles, many rookies pointed to him as the one who took them under his wing in camp. He's also the closest thing we have to a cup, as he came one game away.

He is overpaid, but I could see him taking a paycut around April to allow a deadline move.

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10-18-2005, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota
the best bang for buck DOM HASEK ... i think he is only around 1.5... or less
With about $5 million in potential bonuses. If the Sens win the Cup and he hits a few very achievable stats, he's due around $6 million this year.

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10-18-2005, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
With about $5 million in potential bonuses. If the Sens win the Cup and he hits a few very achievable stats, he's due around $6 million this year.
Just think of how many cocktails he could buy with that kind of dough. *hiccup*

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10-18-2005, 02:13 PM
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NYVanfan
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Haha ..thought I'd get some of those replies ...it is blasphemous, I know...

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10-18-2005, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupless
Losing Linden would be a bad thing for this team.

I think he'll be to the Canucks what Lanny McDonald and Jim Peplinski were to the Flames in 88. He may not be viable to log top 6 minutes anymore, but he's a rallying point for this team.

Stats aren't everything.

As for his contract - who cares? The team is under the cap now. Deadline deals? Again, who cares? The examples of deadline deals that lead to Cup victories in recent history are few and far between. Cutting character guys like Linden just so you can bring in a middling defenseman (and $2M salary is most likely going to get you just that) would be a net loss for this team, imo.

Well said. Linden IS the Vancouver Canucks and if we are lucky, he'll retire here with his dignity intact. But it's a long way from over for Trevor and 6 games proves absolutely nothing. Is Brendan Morrison done because he's had a brutal start and looks lost at times ?

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10-18-2005, 02:46 PM
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Linden still has plenty of use on this team. He is one of our more effective PK artists, and the whole team has struggled in the faceoff circle recently, after being one of the best in previous seasons. He'll pull out of this slump; he had a slow start to the 03-04 season as well.

~Canucklehead~

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Old
10-18-2005, 02:52 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
you will burn for the thought.

Linden is worth every penny he is paid. I wouldnt care if he took up 4m in cap space, I would never advocate signing anyone else at his expense. Anyone. Yes, Anyone.

DR
And, in the end, you cannot put a price on leadership. Name me one team that has won the Cup without a great leader. Doesn't happen. Tampa had Andreychuk and Taylor. New Jersey had Stevens. Colorado had Sakic and (in the second Cup win) Bourque. Detroit had Yzerman. Dallas had Carbonneau and Hatcher. Montreal had Carbonneau and Muller. You get the picture. Linden's the only player on the team who would be classified as a great leader. There are good leaders - Morrison, Naslund, McCarthy (would have worn an A in Chicago this year if not for the trade), etc - but only one great leader, and that's Linden.

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10-18-2005, 02:55 PM
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In today's cap reality, a $1.55M 4th liner is a large handicap.

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10-18-2005, 03:30 PM
  #24
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"In today's cap reality, a $1.55M 4th liner is a large handicap."

As I said previously, who cares? The team is under the cap for this season. Cap space is a dead issue for this team.

The only way it comes alive again is if the Canucks get a lot of small injuries between now and February (i.e. 5-6 games and therefore not able to discount the replacement salaries against the cap).

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Old
10-18-2005, 03:30 PM
  #25
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I may be the only one here who thinks this, but so long as Trevor Linden is playing in the NHL, I'd rather lose with him on the team than win without him. After all the years he's put in here, I think that we all (figuratively speaking) should be trying to win the Cup FOR Trevor, not trying to ship him off to leave his NHL career to die a slow death in some city who doesn't care for him.

Also, I play on a beer league team and yah I know it's not the NHL, but we're all human. We have a couple of guys who may not be the best players on our team but they are older and more experienced. Even though they don't rack up the points, their mere presence in the locker room is HUGE for our team. They're a calming influence, they're listened to by the younger guys, and their leadership isn't just a line we give them because they're older and can't score...their leadership is real! I'd imagine that it would be the same on any level including the NHL.

I remember before, during, and after the Dallas game all the players mentioned that they had a talk before the game regarding the importance of the first game back after a road trip. I can't remember who it was, but one of them said something along the lines of "yah Trevor talked to us about...." so it looks like it was Trevor who most likely brought it up and did most of the pep talk. As you can see from all the interviews, all the Canucks players listened.

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