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Old
10-19-2005, 11:46 PM
  #26
Colorado Avalanche
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To me.. Tanguay is little bit better player, but Havlat is younger and little bit cheaper than Tanguay, so that makes it even. I think it's pretty fair proposal valuewise.

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10-19-2005, 11:52 PM
  #27
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Havlat is far more explosive, he has scored without super start linemates. Has Tanguay ever done that?

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Old
10-19-2005, 11:59 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Havlat is far more explosive, he has scored without super start linemates. Has Tanguay ever done that?
I don't think it matters in trade value. Anyway, to me Tanguay is the better player.

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Old
10-20-2005, 12:19 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Havlat is far more explosive, he has scored without super start linemates. Has Tanguay ever done that?
Does it matter? If Tanguay were traded to Ottawa he would still be playing with star players

Since my original point went unnoticed:

Isn't Havlat naturally a RW who's been converted to the left over the last year or two?

If so, perhaps Tanguay would be a better fit on the Sens simply by virtue of being a natural left winger?

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Old
10-20-2005, 12:26 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
Does it matter? If Tanguay were traded to Ottawa he would still be playing with star players

Since my original point went unnoticed:

Isn't Havlat naturally a RW who's been converted to the left over the last year or two?

If so, perhaps Tanguay would be a better fit on the Sens simply by virtue of being a natural left winger?
Havlat has been playing right wing basically his whole career. He is one of 4 right wingers from the last nhl season that was a ppg player. He did this in a about 16 minutes of icetime with 2nd to 3rd line linemates.

This season while he hasnt scored as much he has been even better, he has been the most dangerous player on the ice. He creates a scoring chance every time he is on, its really to bad his immaturity with the kick happend because he has been absolutely flying.

Ottawa has Heatley, Schaefer, Vermette and Neil/Varada on the left side. On the right side the sens have Alfredsson, Havlat, Bochenski, Mcgratton/Neil/Varada on the right.

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Old
10-20-2005, 01:29 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
Does it matter? If Tanguay were traded to Ottawa he would still be playing with star players

Since my original point went unnoticed:

Isn't Havlat naturally a RW who's been converted to the left over the last year or two?

If so, perhaps Tanguay would be a better fit on the Sens simply by virtue of being a natural left winger?
Tanguay is a natural center.

And the whole "Tanguay is only good because he plays with good players" argument is old, tired, and ridiculous.

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Old
10-20-2005, 02:26 AM
  #32
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If this thread is implying that the Avalanche need a finisher as opposed to a playmaker, do not forget that Milan Hejduk is returning from injury very shortly.

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Old
10-20-2005, 06:20 AM
  #33
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Okay, so Havlat is good because...hes good. End of story. He is not good because he was playing with Sakic and Foresberg, he was good because he is a GREAT hockey player that doesnt make that many headlines. But Havlat is young to, so if this trade went on it would be for Colorados side. Tanguay is my fav player tied with Heatley, and I would love to see him in Ottawa.

Tanguay...you wanna win another cup? Join the sens...this year is our year.

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Old
10-20-2005, 08:54 AM
  #34
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This trade doesn't make any sense.

Lateral move at best for both franchises, and not a trade I'd like to see from a Colorado perspective.

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Old
10-20-2005, 09:26 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting004
I actually think Havlat holds more value. He'll probably max out as a better player than Tanguay. That being said, this deal won't happen cause it basically solves nothing for either team.
I agree!!!!!!

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Old
10-20-2005, 06:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resilience
Tanguay is a natural center.

And the whole "Tanguay is only good because he plays with good players" argument is old, tired, and ridiculous.
exactly. my point was that it doesn't even matter, given the situation anyways

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Old
10-20-2005, 06:33 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
Do you seriously think it's that far off value wise?

Living in Colorado, I've seen Tanguay play plenty, and I think it's fairly even value wise. Havlat is a little younger than Tanguay but hasn't been given the consistently good linemates that Tanguay has.

It just seems like a lateral move.
It is at this point. I'm in awe at the number of posters getting all upset at this notion.

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Old
10-20-2005, 07:07 PM
  #38
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I can see Ottawa doing this deal for a number of reasons, 1 Ottawa has been looking to create 2 really dangerous scoring lines and have a real checking line, moving Havlet to the left side to play with alfie failed, making him move back to the third line. Tanguay is a natural LW and his style of play seems like it would really mesh well with Alfredsen, by doing this Ottawa could achieve 2 dominant lines and a really good checking line. They'd lose a bit of offense from the third line, but would gain a lot from the 2nd.

So
Heatly-Spezza-Bo.
Tanguay-Smolinski-Alfredsen
Schafer-Vermette-Fisher(played RW all last year in Europe)
Mgratton-Kelly-Neil
Second reason is the fact that Tanguay has a lot of playoff experience, has played well in the playoffs, and has also won a few cups. Hed add a lot of proven playoff scoring and experience to the roster.
That being said I really don't see why Colorado does this deal. they only do it imo because they feel they have depth on the lw in Savtos to deal Tanguay and distribute scoring on the top two lines be adding Havlet.

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Old
10-20-2005, 07:30 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackattack
Tangauy >> Havlat anyway.

Tangauy is more defensively responsible, more of a leader, and most of all... doesnt kick people.
Yeah, the Avs lose in everything save for cap space in this deal.

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Old
10-20-2005, 08:23 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Havlat is far more explosive, he has scored without super start linemates. Has Tanguay ever done that?
If you're implying that Tanguay is a leech, you're sadly mistaken.

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Old
10-20-2005, 08:28 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86
Cause Havlat may price himself out of Ottawas range next season also Havlat enjoys kicking people and Ottawa doesnt need his antics.
Didnt Havlat just hold out for a long term deal in 04?

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Old
10-21-2005, 05:55 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Yeah, the Avs lose in everything save for cap space in this deal.
Havlat is just as talented as Tanguay, if not more. He's also a little younger. If Havlat was ever given linemates that could play with him, he'd explode.

The amount of people that don't respect Havlat's talents is incredible. He's made some stupid mistakes on the ice, yes, but he's one of the most talented guys in the league and could explode if given a chance.

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:18 PM
  #43
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Havlat is better than Tanguay. I wouldn't trade Havlat for Hejduk (sp).

I watch Ottawa a lot, and am not speaking as a fan. Havlat is one of my least favorite players. But personality aside, Havlats individual skills outweigh both Hejduk and Tanguay. Especially Tanguay.

We are talking about the player that Jagr named as the most likely to follow him up, skill wise. Its hard for me to say, but I think Havlat is under rated by most. (Some SENS fans pump him way too much). That being said, I don't expect him to be in Ottawa for the 06-07 schedule.

I think a trade will be done after this postseason (barring a Stanley Cup win). I just don't think Tanguay would be on the other end of the deal. Quite frankly, I'd be stunned.

I'm gonna get flamed by the Avs fans, I know. Just my opinion. Hejduk has had some great linemates. Havlat has bounced around sometimes playing with ********** more often than not.

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:23 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
Havlat is just as talented as Tanguay, if not more. He's also a little younger. If Havlat was ever given linemates that could play with him, he'd explode.

The amount of people that don't respect Havlat's talents is incredible. He's made some stupid mistakes on the ice, yes, but he's one of the most talented guys in the league and could explode if given a chance.
Including sens fans, he leads the sens forwards in shots and scoring chances. All this while playing on the second pp with Peter Schaefer, Mike Fisher and Antoine Vermette. He has been the most dangerous player on the team yet he still comes up in trade rumours. I dont get it.

I know Tanguay is good, but has he ever put up big numbers without very good players. I know this question is also unfair because he has earned his icetime and deserves to play with the caliber of players he plays with. The point is Havlat and Tanguay have basically been opposites in terms of the caliber of player in which they have had the opportunity to play with. I agree that this is a stupid trade for both teams because it is very lateral.

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:35 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
Havlat is just as talented as Tanguay, if not more. He's also a little younger. If Havlat was ever given linemates that could play with him, he'd explode.

The amount of people that don't respect Havlat's talents is incredible. He's made some stupid mistakes on the ice, yes, but he's one of the most talented guys in the league and could explode if given a chance.
What about the people who spit in the face of anyone who wears an Avs jersey? The whole board has an anti-Avalanche bias.

And your whole argument about how Havlat would explode is pure speculation. And not even good speculation at that. Havlat has played with talented players his entire career. He has done well but nothing Earth shattering. If he were truly special, he would have been on Ottawa's top line. It's not like Ottawa has been a dominant team or anything, and it's not as if there hasn't been player turnover in Ottawa. If he had showed that he has it on the ice, he would be given the opportunities.

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:37 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico_Persson
I watch Ottawa a lot, and am not speaking as a fan.
Yes, you are.

You had the nerve to mention Havlat and Hejduk in the same sentence. That is about as homeristic as it gets.

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:46 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resilience
Yes, you are.

You had the nerve to mention Havlat and Hejduk in the same sentence. That is about as homeristic as it gets.
But you are no Homer eh? Plus you mentioned them in the same sentence too so by the logical extension of your own arguement you are a homer!

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:48 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resilience
It's not like Ottawa has been a dominant team or anything, and it's not as if there hasn't been player turnover in Ottawa. If he had showed that he has it on the ice, he would be given the opportunities.
He's only been stuck behind two of the best right wingers in the NHL in Marian Hossa and Daniel Alfredsson.

And what anti-Avs bias? I live in Colorado, I know plenty about Tanguay.

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:51 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Including sens fans, he leads the sens forwards in shots and scoring chances. All this while playing on the second pp with Peter Schaefer, Mike Fisher and Antoine Vermette. He has been the most dangerous player on the team yet he still comes up in trade rumours. I dont get it.

I know Tanguay is good, but has he ever put up big numbers without very good players. I know this question is also unfair because he has earned his icetime and deserves to play with the caliber of players he plays with. The point is Havlat and Tanguay have basically been opposites in terms of the caliber of player in which they have had the opportunity to play with. I agree that this is a stupid trade for both teams because it is very lateral.
The answer is yes. See the first 30 games or so of last season when he not only carried the team, but he led the league in scoring.

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Old
10-21-2005, 07:11 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon
I can see Ottawa doing this deal for a number of reasons, 1 Ottawa has been looking to create 2 really dangerous scoring lines and have a real checking line, moving Havlet to the left side to play with alfie failed, making him move back to the third line.
So why would we want him? If he can't play on the left, he'd be behind Milan Hejduk on the second line! Marek Svatos is an RW, so he'd get bumped to a checking line! Our left-wing would consist of Andrew Brunette, Antti Laaksonen and Steve Konowalchuk!

Brunette-Sakic-Hejduk
Konowalchuk-Turgeon-Havlat
Laaksonen-God knows!-Svatos

Yeah, because that works!!!

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