HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

One rule change that's sure to go next year

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-19-2005, 02:26 PM
  #1
blamebettman*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,948
vCash: 500
One rule change that's sure to go next year

The silly Brodeur Trapezoid, how they hell did this thing get approved anyway. Clarke has an idea to handcuff a few of the best puckhandling goalies in hockey (both in his division btw) and it actually goes through.

Goalies are still handling the puck, those that can't do it are still screwing up. Get rid of the trapezoid and let the wannabe Brodeurs wander into the corners, they'll end up causing MORE goals that way.

and why can't they redraw the crease as a semicircle. Think about it. Player ices the pick, it slides near the crease and gets touched up icing. If it was still a semi circle, the puck would slide through the blue of the crease. Icing waved off. I thought the NHL wanted to decrease icings, a bigger crease would help.

blamebettman* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 02:35 PM
  #2
David A. Rainer
Registered User
 
David A. Rainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Huntington Beach
Country: Italy
Posts: 7,293
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to David A. Rainer
I'd like to see it stay with one modification, because I'm sick of seeing goalies acting like a third defenseman that no one can touch.

Modification: If the goalie plays the puck outside the trapezoid, he's fair game to be checked. If inside the trapezoid, can't touch him. But I doubt it will ever happen.

__________________
Saxon Sports Information and Research
David A. Rainer is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 02:38 PM
  #3
The Mars Volchenkov
Everberg flow
 
The Mars Volchenkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 43,137
vCash: 277
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
I like this rule because it keeps Hasek from roaming even more. He's scary outside of the crease.

The Mars Volchenkov is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 02:40 PM
  #4
arrbez
bad chi
 
arrbez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,692
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to arrbez
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
I like this rule because it keeps Hasek from roaming even more. He's scary outside of the crease.
yeah, it's really cut down on the amount of wacky adventures him and Belfour get up to with the puck

arrbez is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 02:43 PM
  #5
clay
Registered User
 
clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,734
vCash: 500
It sure helps the goalies like CLoutier and Joseph though, because they're not exactly great at handling the puck in the first place.

clay is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 03:39 PM
  #6
Hold the Pickles
Registered User
 
Hold the Pickles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 03-K64
Country: United States
Posts: 3,188
vCash: 500
I don't like it, but if they had to keep it, make it larger. Nabby stopped a puck like 2 feet outside of his crease then wrapped it behind the net and they called him for it--in one motion, mind you.

Totally lame call. Its kind of ridiculas not being able to play the puck when you're just outside of the crease.

Hold the Pickles is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 03:44 PM
  #7
Avery4Byng*
 
Avery4Byng*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ktown
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Rainer
I'd like to see it stay with one modification, because I'm sick of seeing goalies acting like a third defenseman that no one can touch.

Modification: If the goalie plays the puck outside the trapezoid, he's fair game to be checked. If inside the trapezoid, can't touch him. But I doubt it will ever happen.
That is a good modification.... if they leave their "zone" they can be run over, slashed, hit anything goes. Theyre just a regular player.

Avery4Byng* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 03:44 PM
  #8
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharksfanatic
I don't like it, but if they had to keep it, make it larger. Nabby stopped a puck like 2 feet outside of his crease then wrapped it behind the net and they called him for it--in one motion, mind you.

Totally lame call. Its kind of ridiculas not being able to play the puck when you're just outside of the crease.
I look at at this way. If goalies aren't allowed to be hit then they shouldn't also have free reign to go wherever they want to with the puck.

mooseOAK* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 03:51 PM
  #9
c-carp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 9,723
vCash: 500
I would like to see the stiff penalty on the Instigator in the last 10 min of the third period go but I am not holding my breath.

c-carp is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 03:54 PM
  #10
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Rainer
I'd like to see it stay with one modification, because I'm sick of seeing goalies acting like a third defenseman that no one can touch.

Modification: If the goalie plays the puck outside the trapezoid, he's fair game to be checked. If inside the trapezoid, can't touch him. But I doubt it will ever happen.

expanded crease is probably the best of both worlds... however, they don't want to risk their investments getting blown up (similar to the QB in football), so we probably won't see it happen. i've always been a proponent of the "free game" status outside of the crease... but money, as always, is the reason we'll never see it.

can't you just see a big play in the playoffs coming down to a goalie meandering out of the crease and then getting blown up with the defensive team desperately trying to get a stoppage?

would be awesome.

Jester is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 04:23 PM
  #11
Chaos
#1
 
Chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 7,911
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Chaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Rainer
I'd like to see it stay with one modification, because I'm sick of seeing goalies acting like a third defenseman that no one can touch.

Modification: If the goalie plays the puck outside the trapezoid, he's fair game to be checked. If inside the trapezoid, can't touch him. But I doubt it will ever happen.
Thats never going to happen. Goalie pads aren't made to take a hit. Besides, how long do you think it would be before a team sent some goon out with the sole mission of blowing up the opposition's goalie?

__________________
Chaos is always right.

-Vagrant
Chaos is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 04:32 PM
  #12
IdiotsPickedMyName*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Goalie pads aren't made to take a hit.
I see this put up everywhere but what equipment do players wear, that goalies don't or a region the goalie is less protected.

Goalie pads and pants are all designed to have goalies dropping quickly to the ground so they absorb impacts. Their chest, side, arm, elbow protection is way greater than any players they make 180 pound goalies look like lumberjacks. The helmets can take pucks so they're plenty strong, but concussion protection may need to be boosted although if a 100mph slapshot doesn't give you a concussion i don't see how a fall could. Goalies backs are exposed, but no more so then players. I think goalies are probably tough enough to take a couple hits, and if they aren't they can stay in their crease.

IdiotsPickedMyName* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 04:36 PM
  #13
Chaos
#1
 
Chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 7,911
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Chaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjbth
I see this put up everywhere but what equipment do players wear, that goalies don't or a region the goalie is less protected.

Goalie pads and pants are all designed to have goalies dropping quickly to the ground so they absorb impacts. Their chest, side, arm, elbow protection is way greater than any players they make 180 pound goalies look like lumberjacks. The helmets can take pucks so they're plenty strong, but concussion protection may need to be boosted although if a 100mph slapshot doesn't give you a concussion i don't see how a fall could. Goalies backs are exposed, but no more so then players. I think goalies are probably tough enough to take a couple hits, and if they aren't they can stay in their crease.
One other thing I've noticed, and this is just a generalization, is that those generally in favor of making goalies fair game dont have a puck-playing goalie like Brodeur or Turco on their team, while those against it seem to generally be Devils and Stars fans.

Chaos is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 04:43 PM
  #14
theotis77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,438
vCash: 500
I've also noticed that the refs don't seem to know how to enforce this penalty consistantly. As someone mentioned earlier, Nabokov got called for it while standing in an allowed area, but the puck crossed through the corner of the "forbidden" area as he swept it behind the net. Yet an almost identical thing happened with CuJo in a Phoenix game, and they ignored it.

Do the refs have anything beyond the vague "playing the puck" edict to go on?

theotis77 is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 04:45 PM
  #15
USF Shark
ZŰion politikÚn
 
USF Shark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DC Area
Country: United States
Posts: 20,636
vCash: 500
scrap the rule all together. If goalies are good at playing the puck, they should be rewarded by being able to play it! If goalies are bad at playing the puck...well...they do it at their own risk.

USF Shark is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 05:08 PM
  #16
Steve L*
Registered User
 
Steve L*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southampton, England
Country: England
Posts: 11,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Thats never going to happen. Goalie pads aren't made to take a hit. Besides, how long do you think it would be before a team sent some goon out with the sole mission of blowing up the opposition's goalie?
The goalie can stay in the crease then and offensive chances will be increased.

Steve L* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 05:09 PM
  #17
Spungo*
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpetri2000
scrap the rule all together. If goalies are good at playing the puck, they should be rewarded by being able to play it! If goalies are bad at playing the puck...well...they do it at their own risk.
Goalies were never meant to be third defensemen. And if they were, then why are they untouchable? If they want to play the puck, fine. But once you come out of the net to play the puck, I can take your head off just like I could with a defenseman. You wanna be a third defensemen, then prepared to get smoked in the corners like defensemen do.

Spungo* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 05:09 PM
  #18
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 16,254
vCash: 500
It's a dud rule.

Easily circumvented by goaltenders, has little effect. All it does is add a chintzy penalty to the game here and there when a goaltender has a brain fart, and add extra ice markings and rules to make the game more difficult to understand for new fans. Won't last more than a year.

And punishing goaltenders for being good at handling the puck didn't make sense anyway. As mentioned above, it was probably rammed through by GMs looking to negate an advantage a few teams have and putting their personal agendas ahead of the good of the game.

So many of these new rules seem poorly thought out. If you're going to make a change to the rules of the game, make damn sure it's a good change that will be permanent and enhance the game. The flip-flops the league has had on rules in the last decade (delayed offside, crease rule, etc) look totally bush-league. Again this year, the trapezoid and penalty for shooting the puck out of play (and hopefully the shootout) are garbage rules that will be quickly dumped. Stupid.

MS is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 05:11 PM
  #19
Spungo*
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
One other thing I've noticed, and this is just a generalization, is that those generally in favor of making goalies fair game dont have a puck-playing goalie like Brodeur or Turco on their team, while those against it seem to generally be Devils and Stars fans.
Any player who wants to play the puck is fair game. If you don't want to get hit, don't play the puck. Simple.

Spungo* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 05:29 PM
  #20
Spungo*
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
It's a dud rule.

Easily circumvented by goaltenders, has little effect. All it does is add a chintzy penalty to the game here and there when a goaltender has a brain fart, and add extra ice markings and rules to make the game more difficult to understand for new fans. Won't last more than a year.

And punishing goaltenders for being good at handling the puck didn't make sense anyway. As mentioned above, it was probably rammed through by GMs looking to negate an advantage a few teams have and putting their personal agendas ahead of the good of the game.

So many of these new rules seem poorly thought out. If you're going to make a change to the rules of the game, make damn sure it's a good change that will be permanent and enhance the game. The flip-flops the league has had on rules in the last decade (delayed offside, crease rule, etc) look totally bush-league. Again this year, the trapezoid and penalty for shooting the puck out of play (and hopefully the shootout) are garbage rules that will be quickly dumped. Stupid.
How exactly does a goalie get around playing the puck in the corners? Do they have invisibility cloaks or something?

And to your second point of sticking with rules come hell or high water. You are 100% wrong. If a rule doesn't work, take it out. There is no way on earth to know 100% if a rule will have the desired effect or not until you try it in the NHL. The NFL tinckers with it's rules every single year. Is the NFL bush-league?

And while I'm at it, I might as well point out that shooting the puck into the stands is a damn good reason to give a penalty. What the hell are you shoting into the stands for if not to delay the game. And don't give me this "accidental" stuff either. The safest defensive play in hockey is to dump it out of your zone high off the glass. The NHL wanted to make that les of a safe play and they did. I've played hockey all my life and never once did I shoot the puck into the stands. (And yes, I can raise the puck off the ice.)

Spungo* is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 05:33 PM
  #21
PeterSidorkiewicz
Original *** allstar
 
PeterSidorkiewicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Michigan
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Im really all for the new rules, but there is ONE rule id like to see modded.

If a player shoots the puck over the glass, instead of giving him a delay of game, just do not let a line change be allowed following the whistle. Just like they have it for icing now. You gotta keep the same 5 on the ice. I really like the new rules though, but I thought this may be a good suggestion.

PeterSidorkiewicz is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 05:53 PM
  #22
Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Saskatoon, Sask.
Posts: 2,030
vCash: 500
Making the goalies like a QB in football is the way to go. They're more or less quasi fair game.

By this I mean if a goalie has the puck, he should be able to get hit. You just can't hit them after they've made a pass.

Brodeur isn't like another d-man, he's more of a super-d-man. If a d-man gets a puck in the corner, he gets hit so he sometimes rushes a pass. If a goalie gets to the puck first, he's untouchable so forecheckers back off and let him make a play. That's stupid. You have to be able to rush them to make a play, but you can't right now.

If goalies whine about it, tell them they have a choice. Don't leave the crease, it's as simple as that. If a goalie wants to take the risk, it's entirely up to him.

Habber is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 06:03 PM
  #23
The Kingslayer
Registered User
 
The Kingslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Siem Reap, Cambodia
Country: Cambodia
Posts: 26,615
vCash: 50
there are more goals being scored, bit that could be from the other rules. I do like the idea of having the goalies as fair game, but it will never happen.

The Kingslayer is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 06:28 PM
  #24
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 16,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungo
How exactly does a goalie get around playing the puck in the corners? Do they have invisibility cloaks or something?

And to your second point of sticking with rules come hell or high water. You are 100% wrong. If a rule doesn't work, take it out. There is no way on earth to know 100% if a rule will have the desired effect or not until you try it in the NHL. The NFL tinckers with it's rules every single year. Is the NFL bush-league?

And while I'm at it, I might as well point out that shooting the puck into the stands is a damn good reason to give a penalty. What the hell are you shoting into the stands for if not to delay the game. And don't give me this "accidental" stuff either. The safest defensive play in hockey is to dump it out of your zone high off the glass. The NHL wanted to make that les of a safe play and they did. I've played hockey all my life and never once did I shoot the puck into the stands. (And yes, I can raise the puck off the ice.)
Goalies just get around it by playing the puck in front of the goal line. Turco handled the puck outside of his crease 38 times in one recent Dallas game. The effect is minimal. Hard dump-ins were always handled behind the net and nothing has changed in that regard. Softer dump-ins were handled in the corners, but now goalies just intercept those before the cross into the trapezoid.

And, again, what on earth is so bad about goaltenders handling the puck? Why does it have to be prevented?

The NFL, MLB, and NBA almost never tinker with their rules. The NFL has had various tinkerings of their replay setup, but that's an enforcement issue and not an onfield one. The NFL doesn't bounce back and forth on how many feet you have to have in-bounds to make a catch, or the size and markings of the field, or what constitutes a penalty (save excessive celebrations). It's always the same. The NHL looks bush league because they're flip-flopping on two or three significant rules/year.

Why is intentionally slamming the puck down the ice to cause an icing not a penalty, but it is to accidentally shoot the puck over the glass? It makes no sense. There are about 10 different ways to accidentally cause a play stoppage, and none of them are penalized. There are multiple ways to intentionally cause a play stoppage, and few of those are penalized.

Of course it should be a penalty for intentionally shooting the puck over the glass. But when that happens it's usually pretty bloody obvious. Shooting the puck over the glass wasn't an epidemic, and no-one was asking for that change. All it does is lead to chintzy penalties on accidental plays. Should just be no line change, same as icing calls, which would make perfect sense.

MS is offline  
Old
10-19-2005, 07:06 PM
  #25
Jim Boeheim
Registered User
 
Jim Boeheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 4,686
vCash: 500
Bettmen has already hinted that if any of the new rules are going to be rescinded form 2006-07, this will be the one. Sorry, but I don't havbe a link. Stan Fischler "The Maven" aid this maybe 10 fays ago on a Devils or Isles pregame show.

Jim Boeheim is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.