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Top 10 Dman of All time?

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Old
10-19-2005, 06:42 PM
  #1
trahans99
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Top 10 Dman of All time?

After watching Coffey get his number retired I thought to myself where does he rank alltime?

Rank the top 10 dman of all time.

I'm only 23 but i'll throw out my list:

1) Orr
2) Bourque
3) Coffey

.... I can't say where these belong but someone in or near the top 10 i'd imagine:

L. Murphy, MacInnis, Housley, D. Potvin, Larry Robinson, Leetch

I know i'm probably missing a ton but i'm just thinking really fast.

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10-19-2005, 06:49 PM
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Sens Rule
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Bobby Orr
Doug Harvey
Eddie Shore
Ray Bourque
Denis Potvin
Brad Park
Larry Robinson
Paul Coffey
Chris Chelios
Scott Stevens or Al MacInnis

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Old
10-19-2005, 06:49 PM
  #3
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I'm trying to do the same thing- run them right off the top of my head. These guys are from my own viewing, I won't comment on the obvious like Orr, Harvey, SHore because they are outside my knowledge, but in my era...

Potvin
Bourque
Coffey
Robinson
Stevens
MacInnis
Langway
Chelios (grudgingly, I hate his guts)
Mark Howe (way underrated)
NIk Lidstrom
Salming

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Old
10-19-2005, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
Bobby Orr
Doug Harvey
Eddie Shore
Ray Bourque
Denis Potvin
Brad Park
Larry Robinson
Paul Coffey
Chris Chelios
Scott Stevens or Al MacInnis
Thats pretty good right there

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Old
10-19-2005, 06:55 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by NJDevils#4
Thats pretty good right there

Brad Park was underrated IMO, I like that he's on the list...

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10-19-2005, 06:56 PM
  #6
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Slava Fetisov in the USSR days was absolutely ridiculous

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Old
10-19-2005, 08:13 PM
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monster_bertuzzi
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1)Robert Orr
2)Ray Bourque
3)Douglas Harvey
4)Edward Shore
5)Denis Potvin
6)Brad Park
7)Viacheslav Fetisov
8)Chris Chelios
9)Al Macinnis
10)Niklas Lidstrom

Just missed: Pierre Pilote, Scott Stevens, Brian Leetch, Borje Salming, Paul Coffey, Larry Robinson


Last edited by monster_bertuzzi: 10-19-2005 at 09:36 PM.
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10-19-2005, 08:17 PM
  #8
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1. Bobby Orr
2. Denis Potvin
3. Red Kelly
4. Doug Harvey
5. Eddie Shore, Ray Borque
6. Larry Robinson
7. Brad Park
8. Pierre Pilote
9. Paul Coffey
10.Nicklas Lidstrom

Honorable Mention: Scott Stevens, Al MacInnis, Tim Horton, Rod Langway, Serge Savard.

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Old
10-19-2005, 08:27 PM
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god, Nicklas Lidstrom is grossly underrated around here. He's done more than some of those defnsemen listed have and isn't even done playing yet.

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10-19-2005, 08:34 PM
  #10
trahans99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
1)Robert Orr
2)Ray Bourque
3)Douglas Harvey
4)Edward Shore
5)Denis Potvin
6)Brad Park
7)Viacheslav Fetisov
8)Chris Chelios
9)Al Macinnis
10)Niklas Lidstrom

Just missed: Pierre Pilote, Scott Stevens, Brian Leetch, Borje Salming
Coffey

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Old
10-19-2005, 08:49 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
Bobby Orr
Doug Harvey
Eddie Shore
Ray Bourque
Denis Potvin
Brad Park
Larry Robinson
Paul Coffey
Chris Chelios
Scott Stevens or Al MacInnis
Good list, mine is very similar. I'll restrict this to the NHL only, but only because that's what I'm most familiar with. I havenít seen every player on this list, but I think Iíve done enough reading/watching videos to have an informed opinion.

1. Bobby Orr. There's nothing he couldn't do. Orr was by far the best offensive blueliner ever and was excellent defensively. Perhaps the greatest skater of all-time, strong checker, elevated his play in the post season, deadly on both the powerplay and penalty kill. Three Hart's, two Conn Smythe's, eight Norris's.
2. Eddie Shore. By all account he was an excellent defensive player and one of the strongest, fiercest defensemen in NHL history. He was great offensively and led defensemen in scoring five times. A true competitor and warrior if there ever was one. Shore is the only defenseman to win four Hart trophies, and would probably have 5-8 Norris trophies if they were around back then. (I give Shore the edge over Harvey largely because of his 4-0 lead in Hart trophies).
3. Doug Harvey. Take this with a grain of salt since I've only seen him on video, but Harvey is perhaps the greatest defensive player of all-time. His ability to control the tempo of the game to meet his teams' needs was incredible. Good hitter, great playmaker. Seven Norris trophies in eight years.
4. Ray Bourque. An incredible blend of consistency and dominance. He was a legitimate Norris contender every season of his career. Logged a ton of ice time and was great on the PP and PK. Great goal-scorer and playmaker, underrated hitter and great defensively. Excellent playoff performer. Won 5 Norris's. Bourque did everything very well for two decades.
5. Red Kelly. Arguably the greatest offensive defenseman until Orr. Excellent powerplay quarterback with outstanding offensive skills. Extremely durable and played 30-40 minutes per game. Great skater, good defensively. Very disciplined, meaning he didn't force his team to kill a lot of penalties. Won one Norris, would have had more if they were around earlier in his career.
6. Denis Potvin. Did everything well on one of the greatest dynasties of all time. An elite defensive player and deadly hitter. An excellent playmaker and the best goal-scoring defenseman of all time, after Orr and Coffey. Three Norrisís in four years.
7. Brad Park. The only reason Park doesnít have three or four Norris trophies is because his prime coincided with that of Orr. Great offensive instincts and a dangerous hitter. Deadly on the powerplay, but also a good penalty killer. Comparable to Pronger in style, but was much better.
8. Paul Coffey. The second best offensive defenseman ever (after Orr), and the second best skater ever (after Orr). His ability to bring the puck up the ice, find and open position, or to dish the puck off to a teammate was truly breathtaking. I disagree with those who say that he was overrated and poor defensively. Coffey was average defensively, and Iíd gladly take an average defensive player if he scores 120+ points. Three Norrisís.
9. Larry Robinson. Logged a ton of ice time on perhaps the greatest and deepest team in NHL history. Good playmaker, strong hitter, and excellent defensively. Two Norrisís and a Conn Smythe.
10. Nicklas Lidstrom. Lidstrom is the sublime blueliner: he does everything well with incredible poise and efficiency. Has been among the top blueliners in the league, offensively and defensively, for his whole career. The fact that he doesnít take a lot of penalties is a good thing: it allows him to spend more time on the ice, and it doesnít force the Wings to kill a lot of penalties. A first-team all star for six years in a row and has a Conn Smythe.

Honourable mentions go to Chelios, Seibert (the most underrated ten-time all-star in history), Pilotte, Horton, Salming, and Langway, who were all contenders for the #10 spot.

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Old
10-19-2005, 09:03 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trahans99

.... I can't say where these belong but someone in or near the top 10 i'd imagine:

Housley, Murphy


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Old
10-19-2005, 09:31 PM
  #13
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All-time NHL:

1. Bobby Orr
2. Eddie Shore
3. Doug Harvey
4. Ray Bourque
5. Denis Potvin
6. Larry Robinson
7. Red Kelly
8. Chris Chelios
9. Paul Coffey
10. Brad Park

If we're including international accomplishments, then Fetisov cracks the top 10, somewhere around No. 8 or 9.

I know Lidstrom's omission draws the ire of some. He is a sure-fire HHOFer, and no European defenceman has accomplished more in the NHL. But his competition is nowhere near as fierce as what existed in the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s. Get a top 20 or 25 list from those in the know, and probably at least half would be born from 1948 (Park and Orr) to 1964 (Stevens). Lidstrom (born in 1970 and selected in 1989) was the last all-time great defenceman selected. There hasn't been a top 25 (or even top 30) all-time defenceman selected since Lidstrom. The lack of top competition for the Norris is evidenced in the runners-up in Lidstrom's three Norris Trophy seasons. (Bourque, Chelios and MacInnis).

Others deserving of consideration (besides Lidstrom): MacInnis, Stevens, Pilote, Horton, Clapper and Clancy.

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10-19-2005, 09:36 PM
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amazingly Tim Horton Made no lists

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Old
10-19-2005, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
amazingly Tim Horton Made no lists
That is because it is the top 10 of All-time, a really tough list to crack. He might be in many top 20 lists and most top 30 lists I would guess.

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Old
10-19-2005, 10:28 PM
  #16
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This has a list of most all of the greatest Defenceman that are retired.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/...tion.jsp?pos=D

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10-19-2005, 10:41 PM
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Amazing. Only two people mention Fetisov, when many hockey people would put him behind Bobby Orr....

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10-19-2005, 10:50 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
amazingly Tim Horton Made no lists
Horton's in my top 15. He actually did finish higher than Park (whom I have in my NHL top 10) in the THN top 50. Horton was a fantastic defensive defenceman. Solid positioning. Rock-solid physically. With his speed, shot and ability to move the puck, he would have put up big numbers if he played in a time when defencemen were encouraged to use their skills in the offensive zone. (Although I believe he did set a record for defenceman playoff scoring for the 1962 Leafs).

I've never seen a credible source with Fetisov as No. 2. There were many insiders who had him as the No. 2 defenceman in the NHL in the mid 1980s, after Bourque (ahead of Coffey and Chelios). If we're including accomplishments for players who spent their prime years in Europe (such as Fetisov), I'd say he slides in somewhere between seven and 10, after the consensus top four (Orr, Shore, Harvey and Bourque) as well as Potvin and Robinson.

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10-20-2005, 07:39 AM
  #19
Sens Rule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Horton's in my top 15. He actually did finish higher than Park (whom I have in my NHL top 10) in the THN top 50. Horton was a fantastic defensive defenceman. Solid positioning. Rock-solid physically. With his speed, shot and ability to move the puck, he would have put up big numbers if he played in a time when defencemen were encouraged to use their skills in the offensive zone. (Although I believe he did set a record for defenceman playoff scoring for the 1962 Leafs).

I've never seen a credible source with Fetisov as No. 2. There were many insiders who had him as the No. 2 defenceman in the NHL in the mid 1980s, after Bourque (ahead of Coffey and Chelios). If we're including accomplishments for players who spent their prime years in Europe (such as Fetisov), I'd say he slides in somewhere between seven and 10, after the consensus top four (Orr, Shore, Harvey and Bourque) as well as Potvin and Robinson.
In the NHL Fetisov has no merit in thentop 10 or even the top 30. but international He has Merit.

There are only 3 D-Men who were possibly the best players of their era. Orr was the best in the world for his whole healthy career and so was Shore. Harvey may well have been the best and most important player on the Habs in the 50's and early 60's. It wouldn't have been a stretch for Harvey to have won the Hart trophy 5 or 6 times though he never did. I am not sure of the voting in the later 50's to early 60's era for the Hart but Harvey must have been a major candidate each season.
The others are lower on the list than thewtop 3 with
Potvin and Bourque toping my list at 4 and 5. Potvin could well have been the best player in the Isles dynasty, surpassing Trottier, Bossy and Smith. Bourque was one of the top 3 or 4 Defenceman in then league from 79-80 to the year 2000. 20 years of elite play. After the top 5 there is more debate but the top 5 are Orr, Harvey, Shore, Bourque and Potvin in my opinion.

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10-20-2005, 08:17 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
Harvey may well have been the best and most important player on the Habs in the 50's and early 60's. It wouldn't have been a stretch for Harvey to have won the Hart trophy 5 or 6 times though he never did. I am not sure of the voting in the later 50's to early 60's era for the Hart but Harvey must have been a major candidate each season.
NHL Award and All-star Voting

Looking at Hart voting in the 50's Red Kelly 51 T3rd, 53 3rd, 54 2nd & 56 4th with 135 points, and Doug Harvey 55 5th, 56 5th, 57 5th, & 58 3rd with 87 points. Add in the fact that there were only half as many votes before 54, when the switched to first and second half voting, and it's obvious Kelly doesn't get enough respect as a great defenseman. (Harvey was the runner-up for the Hart in 61 with the NYR.)

Unanimous all-stars:
50-51: Milt Schmidt, C; Red Kelly, D 90 (18-0-0)
51-52: Gordie Howe, RW; Red Kelly, D; Terry Sawchuck 90 (18-0-0)
52-53: Gordie Howe, RW; Red Kelly, D 90 (18-0-0)
57-58: Doug Harvey, D 180 (18-0-0/18-0-0)

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Old
10-20-2005, 01:06 PM
  #21
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1.Orr
2.Harvey
3.Shore
4.Potvin
5.Robinson
6.Bourque
7.Kelly
8.Coffey
9.Park
10.Pilote

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10-20-2005, 02:38 PM
  #22
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1.Bobby Orr
2.Doug Harvey
3.Eddie Shore
4.Denis Potvin
5.Larry Robinson
6.Pierre Pilote
7.Ray Bourque
8.Brad Park
9.Paul Coffey
10.Red Kelly

Slight edits to the list above me

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Old
10-20-2005, 02:49 PM
  #23
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1) Orr
2) Bourque
3) Shore
4) Harvey
5) Potvin
6) Horton
7) Coffey
8) Robinson
9) Berg
10) Park

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10-20-2005, 03:46 PM
  #24
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10 Best I've seen:

Robinson
Potvin
Bourque
Lidstrom
Pronger
Stevens
Savard
Park
Chelios
MacInnis

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10-20-2005, 03:46 PM
  #25
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Bobby Orr
Eddie Shore
Doug Harvey
Raymond Bourque
Denis Potvin
Brad Park
Red Kelly
Paul Coffey
Larry Robinson
Pierre Pilote

Just missed it: Borje Salming, Niklas Lidstrom, Serge Savard, Tim Horton, Viacheslav Fetisov (Don't know a lot of him), Scott Stevens ... I'm pretty sure I'm missing some.

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