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Well, well, Mr. Savard: Houle's picks aren't that bad after all...

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Old
10-09-2003, 10:03 AM
  #26
Habsaku
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Houle's picks were a 100 % better than those of SERGE Savard. This is the man that dragged the Habs in the basement. Even Jason Ward is a better pick than Jose Charbonneau, you must admit

Don't drag Serge Savard into this. At least he drafted the best Goalie in history and got us 2 stanley cups. He also got Koivu and Theodore. The only player that Houle drafted that might be as good as those two is Markov.

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10-09-2003, 10:03 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by deandebean
You'd be surprised at the number of 19-20-21 year olds playing in the league, with much better teams.


Not really. I'm aware of who plays on each team. The Hawks are playing a lot of rookies, but the Habs organization has been know not to dress many 19 year olds. Ribeiro, Ward, Chouinard come to mind, with Ward and Chouinard being 20 or 21. It didn't go well for any of them.


What's the point anyways? Houle sucked and Savard has a great eye for talent, what's so hard to figure out there?

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10-09-2003, 10:05 AM
  #28
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What's the point anyways? Houle sucked and Savard has a great eye for talent, what's so hard to figure out there?

Lol, I like the way you go straight to the point.

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10-09-2003, 10:06 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by montreal
Not really. I'm aware of who plays on each team. The Hawks are playing a lot of rookies, but the Habs organization has been know not to dress many 19 year olds. Ribeiro, Ward, Chouinard come to mind, with Ward and Chouinard being 20 or 21. It didn't go well for any of them.


What's the point anyways? Houle sucked and Savard has a great eye for talent, what's so hard to figure out there?

The Habs have sucked since the last cup because of poor draft choices made by Serge Savard. Much more than by Reggie Houle. Who WAS a bad GM, no question. I wonder when was the last time the Habs had so many players in the lineup nurtured by the organisation.

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10-09-2003, 10:06 AM
  #30
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All I can say is that at least, Savard and Gainey won't trade 10th pick overall for an old veteran... At least he was traded for 2 great core players...

I'm still dribbling when I think of a Komisarek - Mezei duo...

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10-09-2003, 10:07 AM
  #31
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Ahhhh....hockey season. Gets us all revved up isn't?

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10-09-2003, 10:09 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
Don't drag Serge Savard into this. At least he drafted the best Goalie in history and got us 2 stanley cups. He also got Koivu and Theodore. The only player that Houle drafted that might be as good as those two is Markov.

Serge Savard drafted like a wuss for 5 years at least. He hated euros. That hampered this team's development. As for Koivu, I guess you don't know the story.

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10-09-2003, 01:12 PM
  #33
Mathieu Lavergne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
Last season, André Savard was trying very hard to push his draft choices thru the lazy Montreal media, who was buying it all the way, while downgrading those of Reggie.

Well, look at it today: Hainsey will probably get the nod instead of Komisarek. Hossa is in. So is Ribs. So is Ryder. So is Ward.

Still waiting for the 1st batch of Savard's prospects to make it to the big show. Plenakec, judging by Julien's comments, doesn't seem in the Habs' future plans. Higgins is a sure bet. So is Komi. But the rest...hmmmmmm.


Avons-nous surévalués les choix de M. Savard? D'autant plus qu'ailleurs dans la Ligue nationale, PLUSIEURS jeunes joueurs débuteront la saison avec leur grand club respectif. Ici, le talent ne semblait pas y être...
He did not ''downgrade'' Houle's pick. Ward was considered as a career AHLer and not only in montreal before last year, what would have been the use of hyping Jason Ward at that time?

Komisarek is considered as a better prospect than Hainsey at this point, saying Hainsey will get the nod over him is an opinion, nothing factual. In fact, Komisarek proved more in the NHL than Hainsey even if he was one year younger.

Ryder, Ward etc are much more developed prospects than Savard's prospect. Ryder, Ward and ribiero proved nothing in the NHL so far and Ward and Ryder are nothing to drool about. If we weren't so weak up front, one of the two wouldn't have played in the NHL, possibly both. Ward didn't impress much at this year's training camp. Ward would have been sent down to the AHL on a stronger team up front and on a team without big size issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
Prospects are all suspects until they make the big show. Never forget that. As far as I know, Houle has got 4-5 of them in the big show. Which is much better than what his predecessor had done the last 5 years of his tenure. Andre Savard? Yes, the kids are still young, but some of his young guns were overblown by Savard himself last season.

In ALL his interviews, he was passing over Houle's picks to promote his own picks. Those who really follow the Habs on a everyday basis can attest to that. How many times did he rave avec Higs and Komi or Perezhogin, while not saying a damn word about Ryder, Ward, Hainsey, Hossa and the rest of Houle's picks?
Higgins, Komi, Perezhogin are potential core player, it is pretty normal to promote them instead of Ryder and Ward. Ward was a career AHLer before last year and most of us didn't think much about Ryder as well. Ryder and Ward are nowhere near what I would call potential core player and something to rave about to the journalist. He did talk about Hainsey and Hossa a lot and to say that Savard wouldn't have played Houle's pick is based on what? Hossa and Hainsey saw NHL action last year and Ryder and Ward were not NHL ready last year.

Komisarek, Perezhogin and Higgins are better prospects than Ryder and Ward, I don't see why Savard should focus on hyping Ward and Ryder as much as these 3 prospects, their NHL upside aren't close to Savard's first round pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
And? Who in the ones you named in your 1st post made it? They made the team alright, but didn't prove a thing in the NHL and won't automatically do so. Bit of a biased question you got for us there...

Look at Ribeiro's age (23), Ward's (24), Hainsey's (22), Hossa's (22) and Ryder's (23) and then compare with the Savard era picks you named in this thread: Komisarek (21), Higgins (20), Plekanec (20), Perezhogin (20) and Kastsitsyn (18!). Do I need to explain why this comparison is useless and also why no one should actually go and praise Houle's picks BEFORE they actually prove something in the NHL, which none of them did?

BTW a lot would agree that Komisarek, even one year younger, is now a better Dman than Hainsey.
Good post.

The expection of prospects when you draft them are not the same than 2 or 3 years later if they don't seem to be able to catch the hype (when they are drafted, prospects tend to be over-hyped). The expection for Komi, Perez and Higgins are much higher than Ward and Ryder at this time, I find it perfectly normal that Savard is talking much more about them for that reason as well.

Finally, comparing both gms pick at the same time is a baseless debate, it certainly doesn't prove much IMO. It takes about 5 years to develop a prospect. What about comparing Higgins, Komisarek, Perezhogin and Kastsitsyn at age 22-23 versus Matt Higgins, Jason Ward, Eric Chouinard etc at the same age? Why not wait 2-3 years to see how they end up so the debate could be more objective? I can surely say Savard's pick are looking like they will be better than Houle's pick by a fair margin so far.

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Old
10-09-2003, 02:22 PM
  #34
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How about, too many poster put to many emphasis on the GM on which players are taken in the draft ?

90% of the players draft come from the director of scouting personal which was Trevor Timmins last year, Pierre Dorion in the Houle era.

Even Savard told live in RDS about the 2003 that he didn't have much to do with it & that was all Trevor Timmins batch.

It seems very logical, how a GM can have the time to scout the prospect when he works like 80 hrs as his GM role.

Just my 2 cents.

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10-09-2003, 02:31 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
How about, too many poster put to many emphasis on the GM on which players are taken in the draft ?

90% of the players draft come from the director of scouting personal which was Trevor Timmins last year, Pierre Dorion in the Houle era.

Even Savard told live in RDS about the 2003 that he didn't have much to do with it & that was all Trevor Timmins batch.

It seems very logical, how a GM can have the time to scout the prospect when he works like 80 hrs as his GM role.

Just my 2 cents.

Russian Fan

Well it's a whole group effort. The scouts have a lot of say as well, but you can't sit here and list all the names when having a discussion. It's like the CEO of a company, who might not know what's going on, but he gets the credit or blame cause he sits at the top. GM's are the top dog on the hockey side of it, so that's why they get credit or blame.

Savard has done a good job with drafting wherever he went, so it's easier to think he's more involved in the picks then Houle.

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10-09-2003, 02:37 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
Well it's a whole group effort. The scouts have a lot of say as well, but you can't sit here and list all the names when having a discussion. It's like the CEO of a company, who might not know what's going on, but he gets the credit or blame cause he sits at the top. GM's are the top dog on the hockey side of it, so that's why they get credit or blame.

Savard has done a good job with drafting wherever he went, so it's easier to think he's more involved in the picks then Houle.
That's exactly what I said Montreal, 90% of the pick came from Trevor Timmins decision.

Savard told to RDS live , that there is some meeting to list a group of prospect for each but mostly (90%) Timmins got the FINAL say.

When talked about Kastsitsyn, Savard didnt have many info to provide & said he seems to have a lot of potential , he saw him at the medicals & physicals but if they (RDS) want more depth info about Kastsitsyn , they (RDS) should talk to Timmins.

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Old
10-09-2003, 03:07 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by deandebean
Never would I imply that. I'm just stating the fact that while Savard was praising ad nauseam his own picks, those of Houle were neglected. Wrongfully so. Michael Ryder (and you'll find out pretty soon), if given a chance to play in this league, will enventually play an important role on a winning team. He,s got the talent and the intelligence to do so. With Savard at the helm, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have happened. But he's more Gainey's type of player.

Houle was a bad gm. But I found it ridiculous that Savard thought of his picks and his picks only as the future of les Glorieux.

Si Savard était encore en poste, est-ce que les jeunes de Houle auraient eu préséance comme c'est le cas aujourd'hui? Permettez-moi d'en douter.

As for Plekanec's future with the Habs, even though I love this kid, Julien's comments (probably shared by Gainey) are pretty much self explenatory. He's small and Gainey favors bigger players. We can't have 2 small centermen at the same time in the lineup.
When exactly did Andre Savard praise his own draft picks?

Did you know that Ryder and Ward progressed far more under Savard's development staff than Houle's?

Do you realize Hainsey is a year older than Komisarek, plays on a weaker side of Montreal's defense, and plays a completely different style of hockey, which all factor into why he may be more NHL ready (even though he was clearly not last season)?

Do you realize Houle's draft picks have had years longer to develop than Savard's?

If you realize all of the above, do you then understand why this post is flawed?

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