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Havlat...here we go again

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Old
10-21-2005, 12:58 PM
  #26
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Its a slow news day at Sportsnet. Come on, this incident is forcing a trade. Yeah right.

Is this not the new edge that Muckler and Murray want? I know it was a kick, but wouldn't the old "soft" Senators have hid inside the net from Hal Gill. At least Havlat kind of faught back. Lets not discuss the kicking incident any further.

Havlats retaliation is exactly what Murray is supposedly preaching. "Don't back down", "Stand up for yourself"...I've heard Murray throw all of those tired cliches around all summer.

This is in no way related to him possibly being traded. That being said, I expect him to be dealt by next summer. Not because of kicking, but because of the salary cap.

If Havlat turtled, Muckler would have traded him the next day. Even though he didn't execute the retaliation the proper way, at least it was a form of retaliation. Its a nice new feeling that certainly gets noticed through out the league.

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10-21-2005, 01:00 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico_Persson
Is this not the new edge that Muckler and Murray want? I know it was a kick, but wouldn't the old "soft" Senators have hid inside the net from Hal Gill. At least Havlat kind of faught back.

Havlats retaliation is exactly what Murray is supposedly preaching. "Don't back down", "Stand up for yourself"...I've heard Murray throw all of those tired cliches around all summer.
I couldn't disagree more.

I think this is exactly what Murray wasn't looking for from his star winger. His selfish behaviour costs the team as a whole because he's taken himself off it for 5 games.

That being said, I don't think Havlat is on the block. The return wouldn't be of sufficient value at this point to warrant it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico_Persson
If Havlat turtled, Muckler would have traded him the next day. Even though he didn't execute the retaliation the proper way, at least it was a form of retaliation. Its a nice new feeling that certainly gets noticed through out the league.
If Havlat had "turtled" for 2 more seconds, Neil would have taken care of it and there would have been no suspension.

What's been noticed this year is Ottawa's physical players stepping up to protect our skill players, like Chara for Alfredsson (obviously took it too far), and Neil for Havlat.

I don't think Murray needs his top scoring players taking themselves off the ice. Hell, he was a bit miffed at Chara for taking a 7 minute penalty against Ivanans. This is a 5-game suspension.

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Old
10-21-2005, 01:06 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
More skill no, more explosive more power yes.

Unless a player of his caliber and style is coming back I dont think trading Havlat is a good idea. Yeah the sens traded Hossa for HEATLEY. If the sens trade Havlat it better not be for Brenden Morrow or Jason Arnott. With the loss of Hossa the sens lost alot of speed, trading Havlat for another grinding type player is a bad trade. Especially in the new NHL where speed kills. Havlat has led the team in scoring chances, and he is first among forwards in shots, no he hasnt buried enough but he will.

To much of a risk? He plays with an edge thats what makes him so good. No I dont condone the kick it was stupid but its not like its going to happen over and over again. I really think this time he learnt his lesson. Havlat gives the sens a scoring line, replacing him with Varada just turns Schaefer and Fisher into pure checkers.

I would keep him over Spezza, he takes far less risks then Spezza and he is more dangerous. He picks his spots way better and plays better defense.

Perhaps a sign and trade will have to happen later on but not right now.
This is the second time havlat has done this.Spezza is the future captin and has grea leadership for someone his age.

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10-21-2005, 01:07 PM
  #29
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Havlat will not be moved this year, it is just the hockeycentral leafs edition idiots looking for ratings. I think Bill Watters started all this garbage and the guy has absolutely no credibility. Ironically he later started preaching about how the leafs were looking at moving Antropuff and Ponikorovsky (don't know how to spell it, don't care). Next thing you know Watters will be blow'n smoke out his A** about Ottawa moving Havlat for those 2 boobs. I'm also of the opinion that Havlat will be moved, but not till the summer. The only way he gets moved this season is if we get a deal that gets us a powerforward who fits with our nucleus (age wise). Likely not too happen. This team is a major cup threat, they are not going to trade Havlat for a prospect in mid-season. He is not an upcoming UFA, we won't lose his rights, so why trade him mid year?

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10-21-2005, 01:14 PM
  #30
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I don't think Havlat will be sorely missed. There are lots of players not getting the proper amount of ice time. Players that can deliver with more minutes.

It will be similar to Sundin going down in Toronto. Everyone thought they were doomed. Now, they are actually playing better as other players recognize the situation and pick up the slack.

This team will have no trouble without Havlat for 5 games. If they do then its time to re-think the whole situation.

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10-21-2005, 01:15 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by discostu
Now, he does one thing, and apparently, he's on the outs.
Well, he didn't give the left wing experiment much of a chance, which is the type of thing that might really annoy the organization, if not be another thing he did wrong. Add to that the Havlat for Cole rumours at the beginning of camp, and maybe there is some truth to him not being Murray's or Muckler's kind of player. I don't know if this is the time to trade him though, his stock might be a little low.

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10-21-2005, 03:27 PM
  #32
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Well, from the sounds of it, Murray asked Havlat why he was struggling and Havlat said that he could play better on the right side. Havlat has played better on the right side, so it was an honest anser. Murray could have been more patient.

I also agree with Persson... Havlat didn't back down and he fought back. Yeah it hurt our team. But you know, in 5 games we have shown that we will fight back and still win. That is the message that we want to send. It really could matter less whether or not we win the next few games. But that message is what we need come playoff time.

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10-21-2005, 03:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by NyQuil
Phew, not me.

We already have two top calibre wingers in Alfredsson and Heatley, and only one potential all-star centre.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Agreed.

I may not be a Sens fan, but there is NO WAY you keep Havlat over Spezza. NO WAY.

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10-21-2005, 04:12 PM
  #34
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Zednik and a 1st. There's a LW for you, and a playoff performer to boot.

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10-21-2005, 04:44 PM
  #35
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Zednik and a 1st. There's a LW for you, and a playoff performer to boot.
Plus, Havlat would be reunited with Bonk.

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Old
10-21-2005, 05:02 PM
  #36
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I seem to remember prior to Havlat re-signing that there was talk of Phoenix wanting him.
Could they part with Doan LW/RW (3m), Nagy LW (1.98m) or Nedved C (2.2m)?

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10-21-2005, 05:07 PM
  #37
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If we got Nagy for Havlat, I'd do it. Similar ability but Nagy is a left winger.

That being said, I wouldn't move Havlat until the offseason just because there is very little chance we get someone who could make the same impact or more in return.

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Old
10-21-2005, 05:10 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydog2005
This is the second time havlat has done this.Spezza is the future captin and has grea leadership for someone his age.
Leadership??? I like Spezza he is a very talented player but one thing he does not have is on ice leadership. He is one of the laziest least responsible players that has ever played for Ottawa. He makes selfish plays all the time, soft passes, soft plays and playing on the perimiter. He also makes some incredible plays thats why he is "allowed" to make so many questionable plays. It appears to me he learnt nothing from Jaques, I cant believe a 22 year old makes some of the plays he tries to do.

Havlat plays with way more of an edge, he has been far more impressive to me up to this point in the season. He has been the most dangerous player on the team. Shown by the amount of scoring chances and shots he has had so far this season. Put Heatley on his left wing and see how many more points he scores.

A player can dominate from any position a center is no more valuable then a winger. The only thing a center can provide that a winger cant is faceoff ability, something that Spezza isnt that good at anyways.

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10-21-2005, 05:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
If we got Nagy for Havlat, I'd do it. Similar ability but Nagy is a left winger.

That being said, I wouldn't move Havlat until the offseason just because there is very little chance we get someone who could make the same impact or more in return.
First of all Nagy isnt as good as Havlat, second of all we have balance on both of our wings. Heatley is playing left wing guys the only place the sens lack any depth is at center.

LW
Heatley
Schaefer
Vermette
Neil/Varada

C
Spezza
Smolinski
Fisher
Kelly

RW
Alfredsson
Havlat
Bochenski
Neil/Varada
Mcgratton

The sens need help in the middle, if the sens do infact deal havlat they will be weak on the right wing.

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10-21-2005, 05:16 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Leadership??? I like Spezza he is a very talented player but one thing he does not have is on ice leadership. He is one of the laziest least responsible players that has ever played for Ottawa. He makes selfish plays all the time, soft passes, soft plays and playing on the perimiter. He also makes some incredible plays thats why he is "allowed" to make so many questionable plays. It appears to me he learnt nothing from Jaques, I cant believe a 22 year old makes some of the plays he tries to do.

Havlat plays with way more of an edge, he has been far more impressive to me up to this point in the season. He has been the most dangerous player on the team. Shown by the amount of scoring chances and shots he has had so far this season. Put Heatley on his left wing and see how many more points he scores.

A player can dominate from any position a center is no more valuable then a winger. The only thing a center can provide that a winger cant is faceoff ability, something that Spezza isnt that good at anyways.
Those comments about Spezza are just ridiculous.

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Old
10-21-2005, 05:18 PM
  #41
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Why the heck is everybody up in arms about Havlat when the so called victims of the 3 incidents combined never even missed a shift? I don't condone kicking, it was stupid but I too like the fact that the kid has an edge to him and doesn't just take it like Arvedson. There has been much worse done with less punishment but this is the new NHL. The old NHL punished the result but the new NHL punishes the action. The kid has lost about 10 games and maybe $100 Gs for the 3 incidents, that's costly.

That being said though, we can't ignore the fact that it was mentioned that Havlat was being shopped around this past summer (fact or fiction we don't know) but I like the idea that Muckler wanted Erik Cole. I would hate to lose Havlat because he is so exciting to watch and has so much untapped offensive potential. But if Carolina tanks again by Christmas or closer to the deadline it could force them to make a big move and Havlat could be their ticket.

Ottawa could move some of these guys or all of them to help Carolina's young guys. Havlat, Smolinski, Varada and Schubert or possibly Lyamin or Mirnov or another prospect if Carolina wants youth. I could see Ottawa wanting Erik Cole, Brind'amour (cup run only) and Hutchinson if Carolina would let him go as part of a package.

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10-21-2005, 05:37 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoach
Those comments about Spezza are just ridiculous.

While I didnt go into detail about how incredible a talent he is, those statements are defenitely true.

Spezza makes three blind passes resulting in a scoring chance for the other team. He gets back to the bench after his most recent bad pass Ottawa gets a pp and immediately Murray throws him back onto the ice for the new pp.

Antoine Vermette works his bag off every single shift, this shift he had a pass picked off in the offensive zone. He proceeds to get sat for Chris Neil, and doesnt get another shift for the rest of the period. How do you think Vermette feels when he see's Spezza gets thrown right back onto the ice after a giveaway at his own blue line. That my friends is bad on ice leadership. It happens in just about every game. I am tired of seeing Spezza make selfish plays.

Now I also want everyone to know that I think Spezza is wonderful player, his on ice vision and creativity is matched by very few. He is a very special player for this orgnization. The sens wont win the cup unless he plays very well which I think he is capable of.

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Old
10-21-2005, 06:50 PM
  #43
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If you are thin at center, would you be interested in a deal for Mike Peca? I'm guessing the Oil may have to eat some of the salary, as I'm not sure where you are cap wise.

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10-21-2005, 07:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DynamiteKid
If you are thin at center, would you be interested in a deal for Mike Peca? I'm guessing the Oil may have to eat some of the salary, as I'm not sure where you are cap wise.
Under the new CBA a team can't pay the salary of a traded player. No thanks on Peca.

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Old
10-21-2005, 07:25 PM
  #45
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I see no point in trading Havlat.

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Old
10-21-2005, 08:21 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Leadership??? I like Spezza he is a very talented player but one thing he does not have is on ice leadership. He is one of the laziest least responsible players that has ever played for Ottawa. He makes selfish plays all the time, soft passes, soft plays and playing on the perimiter. He also makes some incredible plays thats why he is "allowed" to make so many questionable plays. It appears to me he learnt nothing from Jaques, I cant believe a 22 year old makes some of the plays he tries to do.

Havlat plays with way more of an edge, he has been far more impressive to me up to this point in the season. He has been the most dangerous player on the team. Shown by the amount of scoring chances and shots he has had so far this season. Put Heatley on his left wing and see how many more points he scores.

A player can dominate from any position a center is no more valuable then a winger. The only thing a center can provide that a winger cant is faceoff ability, something that Spezza isnt that good at anyways.
Little harsh maybe, but i know what you're sayin. Spezza will become a better player than he is today for sure. He is surely stronger on the battles than he was last year. A little more time needed.

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Old
10-22-2005, 03:18 AM
  #47
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How about Malone + a 2nd for Havlat from the Pens?

Or Malone, 2nd and a prospect (anyone but Welch and Whitney really) for Havlat and Schubert?

But honestly, I don't know why you guys would move Havlat, especially this early, maybe you could still hang onto him after next season.

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Old
10-22-2005, 10:34 AM
  #48
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I really think you'd have to add something pretty significant with Malone to get Havlat. The pick would have to be a 1st for Ottawa to move Havlat for Malone, IMO. Malone has potential, but I don't think it is even in the same stratosphere as Havlat's. How about Malkin? You said anyone but Welch and Whitney. Personally, I have zero interest in Malone, he is a nice player, but nowhere near Havlat.

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10-22-2005, 11:16 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney
I really think you'd have to add something pretty significant with Malone to get Havlat. The pick would have to be a 1st for Ottawa to move Havlat for Malone, IMO. Malone has potential, but I don't think it is even in the same stratosphere as Havlat's. How about Malkin? You said anyone but Welch and Whitney. Personally, I have zero interest in Malone, he is a nice player, but nowhere near Havlat.
stratosphere? Who's writing your material for you.

Busted. Blame it on the King Cans.

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10-22-2005, 08:35 PM
  #50
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I think the only way Havlat gets traded is for a solid 2nd line centre who's not a UFA at the end of the year.

My preference (if such a trade were made) would be for Havlat and Smoke to go for a 2nd line centre and a forward prospect.

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