HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Bertuzzi Hypothetical

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-10-2003, 05:22 PM
  #51
TehDoak
General Zad
 
TehDoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 16,520
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TehDoak
I would pay through the nose for bertuzzi, provided he signs a long term contract. My offer:

To Vancouver: Dumont, Kotalik, 2 1st rounders
To Buffalo: Bertuzzi.

TehDoak is offline  
Old
10-10-2003, 05:28 PM
  #52
TehDoak
General Zad
 
TehDoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 16,520
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TehDoak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
As mentioned before, Bertuzzi will be under the current CBA when his contract expires, because of the date of it's expiration.

-He will not be a UFA
-The Canucks will at least maintain his rights until he is 31
-The Canucks will re-sign him, its an ineviatbility.

If you want to think of a package, think of Tkachuk to St. Louis but more.

Handzus
Nagy
Taffe
1st

+another prospect for Bertuzzi.
I think the NHL has a very different look now then it did then. This was when forwards making 8 million a season weren't being traded for chicken scraps just to dump the salary, this was when players were being overpaid by the large market teams, not now. This being said, I am willing to bet Bertuzzi, IF he ever goes on the market, will get a handsome return.

TehDoak is offline  
Old
10-10-2003, 07:11 PM
  #53
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
I would pay through the nose for bertuzzi, provided he signs a long term contract. My offer:

To Vancouver: Dumont, Kotalik, 2 1st rounders
To Buffalo: Bertuzzi.
The 2 1st rounders are nice, but if Bertuzzi were traded(huge if now that the Canucks and Bert are in serious contract talks) the Canucks would need to be getting at least a young, potential star, if not someone who has already proven he can be a consistent top producer at the NHL level. If Bertuzzi were dealt to Buffalo, I'm guessing that one of Taylor Pyatt or Ryan Miller would have to be coming the other way, even then, this isn't really a deal the Canucks would make unless they committed to a re-building process.

Bertuzzi is a very special player and virtually in a league of his own, in a way, at this stage of his career. The Canucks are going to need an equally special player IMO. But of course, if the Canucks are forced to trade him because of monetary reasons, this could be a decent proposal, but I still have a feeling that they would rather have one player who has star potential rather then a duo of "lesser" players.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-13-2003, 07:05 AM
  #54
btn
Gone Hollywood
 
btn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ATL
Country: United States
Posts: 15,658
vCash: 500
Hurme, Stefan, and 2004 1st rounder? Stefan would have to be a 3rd line C or moved to wing for them though.

btn is offline  
Old
10-13-2003, 07:20 AM
  #55
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by btn
Hurme, Stefan, and 2004 1st rounder? Stefan would have to be a 3rd line C or moved to wing for them though.

Bertuzzi is all but signed. Burke has approved a contract, it just needs the owner's approval before being official. And remember, John McCaw(the owner) is the same guy that went out and spent $6 mil a season on an aging Mark Messier when the team was losing upwards of $20 mil a season. Now the Canucks are making more than $10 mil a season, have a top 5 team, selling out everygame, and Bertuzzi is a top 5 player in the NHL. If Burke is satisfied with the contract, I can't see McCaw turning it down.

Anyway, if Bertuzzi was on the market, I personally wouldn't make that deal. Hurme isn't needed, Stefan isn't needed(the Canucks have great depth at center and LW, positions Stefan has played in his career). The only truly valuable piece is the 1st round pick, which may sound nice coming from Atlanta(possible lottery pick), but they've been playing great so far under Hartley, and would likely only play better with Bertuzzi in their lineup. I see no possible fit between Vancouver and Atlanta if Bertuzzi were on the market(which he won't be), unless Atlanta is willing to part with a certain young goaltender...

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-13-2003, 07:23 AM
  #56
btn
Gone Hollywood
 
btn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ATL
Country: United States
Posts: 15,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
unless Atlanta is willing to part with a certain young goaltender...
No problem, we can throw in Michael Garnett :p

btn is offline  
Old
10-13-2003, 07:27 AM
  #57
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by btn
No problem, we can throw in Michael Garnett :p
Deal!

Hehehe, sucker!

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 12:34 PM
  #58
Matty
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Strawberry Fields
Posts: 2,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thor dyck
I have watched the sedins many times. They have never really struck me as being an elite talent. They seem to be pretty good 3rd liners with a chance to turn into mike kean type players. Without guys like that, you don't win a cup. They will improve to be at least excellent excellent third liners. That isn't an insult to them except they were drafted as being bertuzzi type players.

I just have never seen first line skill when watching them. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
There's a big difference between 'not improving' and 'not living up to draft day hype'. Most drafted players don't live up to their so called expectations. All I'm saying is that most young players improve so I fail to see why the Sedins would be some special case.

I will be very suprised if they don't turn into excellent 2nd liners. Not the 1st line players everyone thought at the draft, but still damn good players. 3rd liners just isn't their style though. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that point.

Matty is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 08:39 AM
  #59
Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,940
vCash: 500
Spezza is more valuable to small market teams than Bertuzzi. His upside is similar and is waaaay cheaper. I would be upset at a Spezza for Bertuzzi deal. I would propose something like this:

Rachunek + Shastlivy + Emery + 1st/Kaigorodov
for
Bertuzzi

They get a top-4 defenseman + our #1 prospect and our #3 prospect + a player who will give them one of the best LWs in all of hockey. Bertuzzi will have to play left wing. As a comparison Yashin got us Chara and Spezza (Muckalt didn't add much value to the deal).

Rachunek's Value Now > Chara's Value then
Spezza's Value then > Emery + Kaigorodov

Its a similar deal to the Yashin one and a similar cicumstance (i.e. a 90 point player on the verge of a long holdout). Would I do it if I were Vancouver? Probably not as this could be the last year they have a legitimate chance to win the cup (with Naslund possibly going back to europe in case of a lockout).

Volchenkov is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 09:21 PM
  #60
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,436
vCash: 500
Keep dreaming Volchenkov

ginner classic is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 10:05 PM
  #61
caliamad
Registered User
 
caliamad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,318
vCash: 500
come on guys, lets get some real offers:

Niedermayer or Leclerc +
Salei or Popovic (defensive prospect) +
Smirnov (forward prospect) +
Andy MacDonald

LETS TALK ABOUT IT

caliamad is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 06:51 AM
  #62
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Spezza is more valuable to small market teams than Bertuzzi. His upside is similar and is waaaay cheaper. I would be upset at a Spezza for Bertuzzi deal. I would propose something like this:

Rachunek + Shastlivy + Emery + 1st/Kaigorodov
for
Bertuzzi

They get a top-4 defenseman + our #1 prospect and our #3 prospect + a player who will give them one of the best LWs in all of hockey. Bertuzzi will have to play left wing. As a comparison Yashin got us Chara and Spezza (Muckalt didn't add much value to the deal).

Rachunek's Value Now > Chara's Value then
Spezza's Value then > Emery + Kaigorodov

Its a similar deal to the Yashin one and a similar cicumstance (i.e. a 90 point player on the verge of a long holdout). Would I do it if I were Vancouver? Probably not as this could be the last year they have a legitimate chance to win the cup (with Naslund possibly going back to europe in case of a lockout).
If the Sens want Bertuzzi, somebody like Havlat, Volchenkov or Spezza has to be heading Vancouver's way. Rachunek is #4 d-man, #3 tops, Vancouver doesn't need anymore. Schstlivy is a soft forward who has good skill, but is as fragile as glass. On top of that, he has nowhere to play in prospect, but he doesn't make up thVancouver. Emery is a nice goaltending prospect, be he doesn't interest the Nucks much.

In concluding, if any team wants Bertuzzi, be prepared to deal at least one high profile player from your team. Quantity deals like the one above are going to be of no interest to the Canucks if they are trading a player of Bertuzzi's quality.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 06:53 AM
  #63
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliamad
come on guys, lets get some real offers:

Niedermayer or Leclerc +
Salei or Popovic (defensive prospect) +
Smirnov (forward prospect) +
Andy MacDonald

LETS TALK ABOUT IT
Who are you trying to get, Jarkko Ruutu?

If Anaheim is interested, names like Stan Chistov, Joffrey Lupul, Vitaly Vishnevsky need to be mentioned, not 3rd liners, healthy scratches and 4th/5th d-men.

But this is all a moot point anyway as Bertuzzi won't be traded but rather signed to a contract extension in the near future.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 07:17 AM
  #64
Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
If the Sens want Bertuzzi, somebody like Havlat, Volchenkov or Spezza has to be heading Vancouver's way. Rachunek is #4 d-man, #3 tops, Vancouver doesn't need anymore. Schstlivy is a soft forward who has good skill, but is as fragile as glass. On top of that, he has nowhere to play in prospect, but he doesn't make up thVancouver. Emery is a nice goaltending prospect, be he doesn't interest the Nucks much.

In concluding, if any team wants Bertuzzi, be prepared to deal at least one high profile player from your team. Quantity deals like the one above are going to be of no interest to the Canucks if they are trading a player of Bertuzzi's quality.
Tell me the last time there was a deal where two marquee talents were traded for each other? If the Yashin deal is a good barometer, then my deal is very similar to that one. Rachunek would be the #3 DMan on Vancouver. Surprising to see that a team which has questionable #1 goaltending is not interested in a top-notch goalie prospect. Would you rather have Varada instead of Shastlivy? Perhaps a Fisher+Rachunek+Kaigorodov instead?

Volchenkov is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 07:28 AM
  #65
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,804
vCash: 500
wow the Bertuzzi offers are still coming in, although not one here is something that the Canucks would need.

I don't think that Bert will get traded... last I heard they're still very close on a new contract, and it's not like other situations in the past - the Havlat, Gaborik, Satan examples this year, or the Tkachuk, Yashin examples in the past...

an Ottawa proposal was made on the basis of the Yashin deal, and that to me, makes no sense!

Bertuzzi isn't holding out... he's not on a legitmate contract, demanding it to be redone, or wanting more money added to his current deal - like the Yashin, Tkachuk examples.... he's not even asking for the money that they were demanding...

his contract doesn't expire until the end of this season - unlike the Satan, Gaborik, Havlat situations... both sides are negotiating 9 months early, not at the 11th hour, and considering how close they are, and the Bertuzzi offer going to ownership, I'd say that's extremely positive... there is absolutely no signs of a holdout, like those examples mentioned above.

Yashin wanted $8-9mill a year on a long term deal... Bertuzzi is a dominating player right now, and is looking for less... Yashin had a contract that he wouldn't honor... Bertuzzi is discussing a new contract while still playing on his old one... completely different situations.

so if Yashin got a #2 overall pick - and a player considered to have superstar potential even then, plus a solid dman, I'd think that the Canucks would expect at least as much in a Bertuzzi deal, if not more.

if we were a team that needed depth, or needed to rebuild, some of these deals offering 3-5 okay pieces would make more sense, but the Canucks are still a quality team, and have some decent depth, so it's more likely they will be looking for a bigger impact package.

From Ottawa, I would ask for:

Fisher + Havlat + Phillips to be a core offer, if they aren't going to move Spezza.... (the Canucks would add a lesser dman the other way in the deal as well, to balance the numbers)

From Anahiem:

Chistov + Leclerc + a top pick. (and probably a lot lot more, because I would never deal Bertuzzi to a Western conference team, and any team in the west would have to *severely* overpay).

in both these situations, this is a core pkg, but the deal would need to be expanded, similar to the Bure trade.

and I still don't think that's a overwhelming pkg in anyway for the premier powerforward in the game, who's still only 28 yrs old.

NFITO is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 07:33 AM
  #66
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Tell me the last time there was a deal where two marquee talents were traded for each other? If the Yashin deal is a good barometer, then my deal is very similar to that one. Rachunek would be the #3 DMan on Vancouver. Surprising to see that a team which has questionable #1 goaltending is not interested in a top-notch goalie prospect. Would you rather have Varada instead of Shastlivy? Perhaps a Fisher+Rachunek+Kaigorodov instead?
why is the Yashin deal considered a good barometer??

completely different situations, as mentioned in my post above... don't you think a player holding out on a legit contract, demanding more money than what Bertuzzi is asking for, is worth less?

and even if it is a good barometer, a Spezza + Chara pkg is still more than anything you've offered... Spezza has a lot of value, and that can't be replaced just by adding other names of players you'd rather move...

if you want to compare the deals - and IMO they shouldn't be, as Bert should have more value given the situations - then offer a player the quality of Spezza, which you haven't... adding quantity doesn't even it up...

NFITO is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 08:22 AM
  #67
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
If the Yashin deal is a good barometer, then my deal is very similar to that one. Rachunek would be the #3 DMan on Vancouver. Surprising to see that a team which has questionable #1 goaltending is not interested in a top-notch goalie prospect. Would you rather have Varada instead of Shastlivy? Perhaps a Fisher+Rachunek+Kaigorodov instead?
I wouldn't say the Yashin deal was a good barometer. Yashin was holding out, Bertuzzi is not. The Sens wanted to dump Yashin as he was a headcase, Bertuzzi is not. Bertuzzi is arguably one of the most dominant players in the NHL, most people didn't consider Yashin to be when he was dealt. The situations are different.

As for Ottawa's return, they received Spezza, the 2nd overall pick in his draft and a very highly regarded prospect. They also received Chara who was a top young d-man who had #1/2 d-man potential and a decent 3rd liner in Bill Muckalt. Why shouldn't Canucks' fans expect at least this type of package in return, if not more? In your proposal you're not offering the Canucks any player who has super star potential. The Sens got Spezza who provides that in the Yashin deal, why wouldn't Bertuzzi garner the same return? If you're using the Yashin deal as a comparison(which is unfair as Yashin was a holdout who was demanding a trade or a huge salary increase, Bertuzzi is doing neither), then why not offer equal parts in the trade? Trading the Canucks 3 or 4 lesser assets isn't good enough. If Bertuzzi is dealt(which is about a 0% chance right now) the Canucks are going to need an all star talent, not a bunch of players who have potential.

The Isles traded a highly touted prospect(#2 overall pick in the previous draft), a huge, young defenseman with #1/2 potential, and a decent 3rd liner for a hold-out in Alexei Yashin. I would expect at least that type of a return, but more considering the Canucks have no need to trade Bertuzzi. Names like Spezza, Havlat and Volchenkov have to be mentioned to even interest the Canucks IMO.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 09:13 AM
  #68
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Tell me the last time there was a deal where two marquee talents were traded for each other? If the Yashin deal is a good barometer, then my deal is very similar to that one. Rachunek would be the #3 DMan on Vancouver. Surprising to see that a team which has questionable #1 goaltending is not interested in a top-notch goalie prospect. Would you rather have Varada instead of Shastlivy? Perhaps a Fisher+Rachunek+Kaigorodov instead?
It is a very typical offer for this website I will admit that much.

Give your head a shake dude....re-read NTO's comments about three times and then think about what you are saying.....

Bert would garner at least if not more than the Blues got for Tkachuk and MORE than Ottawa got for Yashin.

ginner classic is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 10:49 AM
  #69
Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
It is a very typical offer for this website I will admit that much.

Give your head a shake dude....re-read NTO's comments about three times and then think about what you are saying.....

Bert would garner at least if not more than the Blues got for Tkachuk and MORE than Ottawa got for Yashin.
It was all proposed in the hypothetical hold-out situation. Right now, the proposal would never work. Yashin, pretty much all by himself put together two consecutive 40 goal seasons. Yashin when he was traded was a better player than Bertuzzi ignoring intagibles. If Bertuzzi were to hold out and demand a lot more money, his situation would be very similar to that of Yashin's.

Volchenkov is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 10:59 AM
  #70
Matty
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Strawberry Fields
Posts: 2,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Tell me the last time there was a deal where two marquee talents were traded for each other? If the Yashin deal is a good barometer, then my deal is very similar to that one. Rachunek would be the #3 DMan on Vancouver. Surprising to see that a team which has questionable #1 goaltending is not interested in a top-notch goalie prospect. Would you rather have Varada instead of Shastlivy? Perhaps a Fisher+Rachunek+Kaigorodov instead?
Your reasoning is sound. The Yashin deal probably would be a good barometer.

However, the problem is your deal is NOT anywhere near what Ottawa received for Yashin.

Spezza was a prospect who had scouts drooling since he was 15 or even younger. His name was whispered in the same sentence as the Great One. Granted that was going overboard but it should indicate the kind of prospect Spezza was at the time.

Spezza certainly has the talent to become one of the top 5 centers in the league one day if not the best. Name one player in your proposal that has that type of future 'star' potential. And please, don't name Shastlivy.

Matty is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 11:04 AM
  #71
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Yashin when he was traded was a better player than Bertuzzi ignoring intagibles.
That certainly is debateable...

Quote:
If Bertuzzi were to hold out and demand a lot more money, his situation would be very similar to that of Yashin's.
Yashin held out when he had a contract, thats different than holding out as a RFA. Bertuzzi won't do what Yashin did.

In any case, if you're going to compare Bertuzzi to Yashin when he was traded, at least make a comparable offer. Thanks.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 11:51 AM
  #72
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
That certainly is debateable...



Yashin held out when he had a contract, thats different than holding out as a RFA. Bertuzzi won't do what Yashin did.

In any case, if you're going to compare Bertuzzi to Yashin when he was traded, at least make a comparable offer. Thanks.
no point arguing... he's not going to see "the light" but hey... just for arguments sake, maybe he'll finally accept the differences between these two players??

anytime you make a deal based on value, yet "ignore" the intanigbles, like he said in his post, you're not assessing value....

I guess this means that Mike Fisher is only worth based on what points he puts up, regardless of intangibles??

and he still goes back to comparing Yashin to Bertuzzi... can't seem to see the difference... even though it's been spelled out for him!

the comparison is this: Yashin on the last year of his contract before he became a RFA, held out and wanted more money... Bertuzzi is in that same situation - last year before being a RFA... the fact that unlike Yashin, he's not holding out, makes a huge huge difference!!

The fact that Bertuzzi is asking for less money right now than what Yashin asked for, makes a huge difference...

as far as him doing it all on his own?? I don't quite get that, unless you discount the fact that he was on a team with 2 20 goal scorers, a 30 goal scorer, and that doesn't include Alfreddson (11) and Hossa (15), who did it while missing more than 20 games each... and Bonk (16goals)... and that's just his 1st of 2 40+ goal seasons... in his 2nd season the Sens had 5 players with 20+ goals, with Havlat, Zamuner at 19 each, and Arvedson at 17!!! to say he did it all on his own doesn't add up at all!

Yashin, at best, was an equally productive player, but without the intangibles, the holdout attitude or the demands....

if Yashin honored his contract, and played without holding out.. wanted $2mill or so less than he was demanding, and was a physically tougher player, don't you think his value might have been even higher??

those changes would make him where Bertuzzi is now - and those "intanigble" make a world of difference.

but then again, we're not even arguing that.... we're hearing that Bertuzzi should be compared to Yashin, yet we aren't going to get a player like Spezza in the return??

if you want to compare him to Yashin, then compare the value... and 3 unnecessary parts don't add up to the value of 1 necessary asset.

(ie. Spezza is NOT equal to Schastlivy, Rachunek and Emery).

NFITO is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 11:10 AM
  #73
caliamad
Registered User
 
caliamad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
wow the Bertuzzi offers are still coming in, although not one here is something that the Canucks would need.

I don't think that Bert will get traded... last I heard they're still very close on a new contract, and it's not like other situations in the past - the Havlat, Gaborik, Satan examples this year, or the Tkachuk, Yashin examples in the past...

an Ottawa proposal was made on the basis of the Yashin deal, and that to me, makes no sense!

Bertuzzi isn't holding out... he's not on a legitmate contract, demanding it to be redone, or wanting more money added to his current deal - like the Yashin, Tkachuk examples.... he's not even asking for the money that they were demanding...

his contract doesn't expire until the end of this season - unlike the Satan, Gaborik, Havlat situations... both sides are negotiating 9 months early, not at the 11th hour, and considering how close they are, and the Bertuzzi offer going to ownership, I'd say that's extremely positive... there is absolutely no signs of a holdout, like those examples mentioned above.

Yashin wanted $8-9mill a year on a long term deal... Bertuzzi is a dominating player right now, and is looking for less... Yashin had a contract that he wouldn't honor... Bertuzzi is discussing a new contract while still playing on his old one... completely different situations.

so if Yashin got a #2 overall pick - and a player considered to have superstar potential even then, plus a solid dman, I'd think that the Canucks would expect at least as much in a Bertuzzi deal, if not more.

if we were a team that needed depth, or needed to rebuild, some of these deals offering 3-5 okay pieces would make more sense, but the Canucks are still a quality team, and have some decent depth, so it's more likely they will be looking for a bigger impact package.

From Ottawa, I would ask for:

Fisher + Havlat + Phillips to be a core offer, if they aren't going to move Spezza.... (the Canucks would add a lesser dman the other way in the deal as well, to balance the numbers)

From Anahiem:

Chistov + Leclerc + a top pick. (and probably a lot lot more, because I would never deal Bertuzzi to a Western conference team, and any team in the west would have to *severely* overpay).

in both these situations, this is a core pkg, but the deal would need to be expanded, similar to the Bure trade.

and I still don't think that's a overwhelming pkg in anyway for the premier powerforward in the game, who's still only 28 yrs old.
I don't see how the offer I posted was much different except for the presence of Smirnov versus Chistov.

Smirnov has the potential to be a power forward where Chistov is a small forward, but what do I know...

Popovic is a decent prospect... another option would be our Goalie Ilya Bryzgalov.

I think the ducks would be willing to do Leclerc + Sminrov + Byzgalov for him, but if you guys could resign him, I would do it in a heart beat.

caliamad is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 11:14 AM
  #74
caliamad
Registered User
 
caliamad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty
Your reasoning is sound. The Yashin deal probably would be a good barometer.

However, the problem is your deal is NOT anywhere near what Ottawa received for Yashin.

Spezza was a prospect who had scouts drooling since he was 15 or even younger. His name was whispered in the same sentence as the Great One. Granted that was going overboard but it should indicate the kind of prospect Spezza was at the time.

Spezza certainly has the talent to become one of the top 5 centers in the league one day if not the best. Name one player in your proposal that has that type of future 'star' potential. And please, don't name Shastlivy.
Well some very important points:

1) Look how the Islanders look now, which is terrible... They gave Spezza and Chara, two of finest young players, for a guy with a big contract. I bet every GM is going to think about. Even still, Bertuzzi is a rarer breed and in my opinion worth more than Yashin.

2) How many teams can afford to pickup Salary? Detroit? New York? I'd love anaheim to get him, but they'd have to move some salaries to re-sign him. (I think their budget is already at $55 million with bonuses included, next year it will drop to $50 million, but Bertuzzi is going to want a ton of money then).

caliamad is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 01:15 PM
  #75
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliamad
I don't see how the offer I posted was much different except for the presence of Smirnov versus Chistov.

Smirnov has the potential to be a power forward where Chistov is a small forward, but what do I know...

Popovic is a decent prospect... another option would be our Goalie Ilya Bryzgalov.

I think the ducks would be willing to do Leclerc + Sminrov + Byzgalov for him, but if you guys could resign him, I would do it in a heart beat.
your offer isn't the same with Smirnov instead of Chistov...

Chistov is a more ready player now... Smirnov is still on the bubble at this stage... and we'd have no need for Byzgalov with Auld already developing...

you have to consider the team needs as well... we're more ready to win now, which is why Chistov would be more valuable.

Smirnov is a nice darkhorse player... could be a real nice powerforward, could be Isbister... could be worse... right now it's too much of a risk to get him as the main young player in a deal for Bertuzzi... whereas Chistov would generate more interest.

NFITO is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.