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Old
10-07-2003, 01:26 PM
  #1
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Seidenberg

Realistically, what would it cost to acquire Denis Seidenberg? I know Desjardins is a UFA after this season, but that just opens up a roster spot for Woywitka.

Unless Clarke wants to hold on to him, but Seidenberg is a quality NHL defenseman and you guys are already hoarding so many. It makes sense to me to ship the kid out for a return at least because he deserves to play in the NHL.

All that being said, what would it cost?

Maybe a better winger than Somik + a pick?
A scoring winger as insurance against the loss of Leclair?

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10-07-2003, 01:40 PM
  #2
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I'd love to keep Dennis

fire away some kind of an offer and you will see how close you are from the reaction in the room.

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10-07-2003, 01:42 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daynus
fire away some kind of an offer and you will see how close you are from the reaction in the room.
Grier/Halpern + 4th round draft pick

I think that's a generous offer. Grier probably fits better because he's a big upgrade on RW from Somik, but it never hurts to have center depth. Washington has the ability to replace them from within the organization with either Whitfield or Gordon.

Am I close

Maybe also Kip Miller + 2nd round draft pick

This gives you some scoring depth if one of your big guns go down.

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10-07-2003, 01:49 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsFan@Vassar
Grier/Halpern + 4th round draft pick

I think that's a generous offer.
If that's indicative of the kind of deal we could get, I'd be more inclined to keep him. Desjardins is not UFA this year, but Weinrich and Therien both are. Weino will likely retire, and Therien's a goner for sure. That opens two spots: one for Woywitka, and one for Seidenberg.

Whether or not it's unfair to "hoard" prospects, who cares? We drafted them. Besides, we have no room for another winger at the moment, and neither Grier nor Halpern (maybe Halpern) would fill a vital hole that we have. Also, doesn't Washington have it's own stable of good defense prospects?

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10-07-2003, 01:53 PM
  #5
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Oops, my bad on Desjardins. Yeah, Washington has 3 good D prospects right now: Eminger, Yonkman, and Cutta. But we're going into this season with Gonchar, Witt and Crap. Seidenberg would be the clear cut #3 on our team this season.

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10-07-2003, 01:54 PM
  #6
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I'd keep him ,in a few years, our D will have Johnson, Pitkanen, Woywitka, Vandermeer and Seidenberg
should become one of the leagues best if kept together

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Old
10-07-2003, 02:04 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsFan@Vassar
Oops, my bad on Desjardins. Yeah, Washington has 3 good D prospects right now: Eminger, Yonkman, and Cutta. But we're going into this season with Gonchar, Witt and Crap. Seidenberg would be the clear cut #3 on our team this season.
Maybe in the beginning, but probably not by season end. He's still not quite used to playing an 82 game season.

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10-07-2003, 03:42 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Weino will likely retire, and Therien's a goner for sure. That opens two spots: one for Woywitka, and one for Seidenberg.
I would say that assuming Seidenberg and Woywitka are both in Philly by season's end and Therien and Weinrich are gone Philly is still looking at a very interesting situation numbers-wise.

Desjardins
Vandermeer
Ragnarsson
Johnsson
Pitkanen
Woywitka
Seidenberg

That is 7 guys, and Hitch doesn't want a "rookie" or young guy to be the #7 guy. That leaves Desjardins, Ragnarsson and Johnsson as possible #7 guys. Ragnarsson probably is at the top of that list. That will still leave Philly with 5 defenseman under the age of 28. WOW!

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10-07-2003, 04:16 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsFan@Vassar
Realistically, what would it cost to acquire Denis Seidenberg? I know Desjardins is a UFA after this season, but that just opens up a roster spot for Woywitka.

Unless Clarke wants to hold on to him, but Seidenberg is a quality NHL defenseman and you guys are already hoarding so many. It makes sense to me to ship the kid out for a return at least because he deserves to play in the NHL.

All that being said, what would it cost?

Maybe a better winger than Somik + a pick?
A scoring winger as insurance against the loss of Leclair?

Desjardins is signed, but Therien & weinrich both have deals that are up.

Flyers have plenty of depth, what I would be looking for would be something along the line of

Seidenberg + Somik/Fedoruk/Brashear/Kapanen

for a better forward

or

Seidenberg & a 3rd round pick

for

Caps #1

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10-07-2003, 04:17 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFlyer
I would say that assuming Seidenberg and Woywitka are both in Philly by season's end and Therien and Weinrich are gone Philly is still looking at a very interesting situation numbers-wise.

Desjardins
Vandermeer
Ragnarsson
Johnsson
Pitkanen
Woywitka
Seidenberg

That is 7 guys, and Hitch doesn't want a "rookie" or young guy to be the #7 guy. That leaves Desjardins, Ragnarsson and Johnsson as possible #7 guys. Ragnarsson probably is at the top of that list. That will still leave Philly with 5 defenseman under the age of 28. WOW!
No chance that Seidenberg & Woywitka are both playing with the Flyers along with Vandermeer & Pitkanen come later this season.

Realistically Seidenberg gets traded this year or in the offseason, and Woywitka joins the Flyers next year. Not going into the playoffs with 4 inexperienced defenseman.

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10-07-2003, 07:28 PM
  #11
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Seidenberg is what 22? It would make no sense to deal him. He looks like a legit NHL dman. Why would they dump him for another pick when they have an idea of what they have in Seidenberg.

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10-08-2003, 02:41 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsFan@Vassar
Realistically, what would it cost to acquire Denis Seidenberg? I know Desjardins is a UFA after this season, but that just opens up a roster spot for Woywitka.

Unless Clarke wants to hold on to him, but Seidenberg is a quality NHL defenseman and you guys are already hoarding so many. It makes sense to me to ship the kid out for a return at least because he deserves to play in the NHL.

All that being said, what would it cost?

Maybe a better winger than Somik + a pick?
A scoring winger as insurance against the loss of Leclair?
lmao! great avatar!

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Old
10-08-2003, 05:05 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah
Seidenberg is what 22? It would make no sense to deal him. He looks like a legit NHL dman. Why would they dump him for another pick when they have an idea of what they have in Seidenberg.
If I would be Dennis, I would demand a trade out of Philly.

Last year he made the Flyers out of camp and got dumped into the AHL after 58 games and now he doesn't get the change because Hitchcock want once again the vets on the ice. IMO a low class act by the Flyers.

You guys have the luxury of 4 young D-man with huge potentials, IMO you could afford to trade at least one.

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10-08-2003, 05:13 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
If I would be Dennis, I would demand a trade out of Philly.

Last year he made the Flyers out of camp and got dumped into the AHL after 58 games and now he doesn't get the change because Hitchcock want once again the vets on the ice. IMO a low class act by the Flyers.

You guys have the luxury of 4 young D-man with huge potentials, IMO you could afford to trade at least one.
Low class ??? He has been outplayed by Vandermeer, and now Pitkanen during this training camp.

Is he good enough to play in the NHL ??? Yes, but no reason for the Flyers to dump him for nothing. If another teams makes a good offer the Flyers would certainly listen.

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10-08-2003, 05:37 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
No chance that Seidenberg & Woywitka are both playing with the Flyers along with Vandermeer & Pitkanen come later this season.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that all 4 would be with the Flyers only that they would still be in Philly, Phantoms included. If they are I would expect all 4 to play next year.

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10-08-2003, 06:07 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Low class ??? He has been outplayed by Vandermeer, and now Pitkanen during this training camp.

Is he good enough to play in the NHL ??? Yes, but no reason for the Flyers to dump him for nothing. If another teams makes a good offer the Flyers would certainly listen.
I think that 2nd or 3rd round pick is good enough for Seidenberg. Maybe from Chicago?

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10-08-2003, 06:13 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
I think that 2nd or 3rd round pick is good enough for Seidenberg. Maybe from Chicago?
Definitely more than a 3rd, and it would have to be a high 2nd (which Chicago's would be) to get me to consider it.

He's already proven that he is an NHL defenseman, young and cheap.

I would make this deal with Chicago

Seidenberg & Kings 2nd, and Flyers 4th

for

Chicago's #1

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10-08-2003, 06:21 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
If I would be Dennis, I would demand a trade out of Philly.

Last year he made the Flyers out of camp and got dumped into the AHL after 58 games and now he doesn't get the change because Hitchcock want once again the vets on the ice. IMO a low class act by the Flyers.

You guys have the luxury of 4 young D-man with huge potentials, IMO you could afford to trade at least one.
You're totally wrong. He wasn't replaced by a vet, he was replaced by Jim Vandermeer, another young d-man from the Phantoms. Dennis got "dumped" into the AHL after 58 games because he didn't have the stamina and endurance to stay up for an 82 game season (which is understandable, since the DEL only plays 40-50 games in a season). He was too tired, and couldn't keep up with the play on the ice. The only way he'll work on conditioning to be able to do a LONG season is through the AHL.

Hitchcock has said that at some point during this season, all 4 dmen will have NHL time. Added to the fact that we'll have two spots open next year, and there is no need to trade any of our 4 dmen.

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10-08-2003, 06:27 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Definitely more than a 3rd, and it would have to be a high 2nd (which Chicago's would be) to get me to consider it.

He's already proven that he is an NHL defenseman, young and cheap.

I would make this deal with Chicago

Seidenberg & Kings 2nd, and Flyers 4th

for

Chicago's #1
JFF! Be happy, if Smith gives you that 2nd. I'm pretty sure if the Blackhawks pick Top10 in the draft they won't deal there 1st rounder.

Just curious what would you want for Vandermeer or Woywitka?

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10-08-2003, 06:33 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
JFF! Be happy, if Smith gives you that 2nd. I'm pretty sure if the Blackhawks pick Top10 in the draft they won't deal there 1st rounder.

Just curious what would you want for Vandermeer or Woywitka?

Smith may need to make the playoffs to keep his job, so he might get a little desparate. I would think about Seidenberg for Chicago's 2md, but I would prefer to get that 1st, that's why I added the additional picks to even it out.

The price for Vandermeer & Woywitka would be higher than Seidenberg.

Woywitka would have to be a top 15 pick in the draft.

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10-08-2003, 07:07 AM
  #21
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The price for Woywitka would not be another draft pick. What would the point of that be? Woywitka has developed very nicely and if the 01 draft was redone, he'd probably be in the top 15 of a very very good draft. If the flyers were going to trade a defenseman, I would expect that they would want a very solid winger prospect in return. If we're talking about Chicago, maybe a guy like Radulov, though that may be too much. If we're talking about Washington, i'd want Semin and i'd deal Seidenberg and a 2nd or a 3rd for him.

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10-08-2003, 07:29 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Smith may need to make the playoffs to keep his job, so he might get a little desparate. I would think about Seidenberg for Chicago's 2md, but I would prefer to get that 1st, that's why I added the additional picks to even it out.

The price for Vandermeer & Woywitka would be higher than Seidenberg.

Woywitka would have to be a top 15 pick in the draft.
Vandermeer is potential #5 or #6 D-man, while Seidenberg has Top4 potential. BTW I wouldn't even want Vandermeer, if I would be a GM.

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10-08-2003, 07:52 AM
  #23
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They're not going to deal any of their dmen. Unless the offer was well in their favor. You don't trade a dman with top 4 potential just b/c he can't go 82 YET. From the work he's done in the offseason it looks like Seidenberg is serious about making this team for the entire season if not this year then next season.

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10-08-2003, 07:55 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
Vandermeer is potential #5 or #6 D-man, while Seidenberg has Top4 potential. BTW I wouldn't even want Vandermeer, if I would be a GM.

I originally thought that Vandermeer would top out as a 5 or 6, but he has made tremendous strides. He can at least be a #4. Physical mean deenseman that is not afraid to drop the gloves. Think Colin White, but willing to fight.

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10-08-2003, 08:24 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomACE
If I would be Dennis, I would demand a trade out of Philly.

Last year he made the Flyers out of camp and got dumped into the AHL after 58 games and now he doesn't get the change because Hitchcock want once again the vets on the ice. IMO a low class act by the Flyers.

You guys have the luxury of 4 young D-man with huge potentials, IMO you could afford to trade at least one.
21 year old players drafted late with 50+ NHL games that have not really proven anything on the NHL level are not at liberty to demand anything. I like Dennis and agree he has good two way skills but still has learning to do. Also, Hitch has Vandermeer and Pitkanen in the lineup with Bundy sitting so it is not really about the vets.

 
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