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If the Canucks were to move Bertuzzi, what would you offer for him?

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Old
10-10-2003, 08:45 AM
  #126
Jon Burke
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Originally Posted by jin
The Montreal proposal was amazing and I'd take it in a hart beat. Zednik, Komo/Markov and a 1st (probably lottery pick).
Agreed. That trade is sweet. A pretty good goal scorer, good young defenseman and a top ten pick. Very nice. I'd do that trade for sure.

 
Old
10-10-2003, 09:15 AM
  #127
gpearson1968
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How 'bout

Mike Comrie, Janne Rita and a 2nd rounder for Bertuzzi ? Vancouver gets instant return from a playmaker like Comrie, the best rookie prospect around, and a future pick - up.

Edmonton gets a proven winner.

????????

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10-10-2003, 09:24 AM
  #128
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpearson1968
Mike Comrie, Janne Rita and a 2nd rounder for Bertuzzi ? Vancouver gets instant return from a playmaker like Comrie, the best rookie prospect around, and a future pick - up.

Edmonton gets a proven winner.

????????
It would take a lot more than that for Vancouver to deal Bertuzzi to a division rival like Edmonton.

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10-10-2003, 09:31 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danrik
To Vancouver: Simon Gagne (LW), Jeff Woywitka (D), 2004 first round pick
To Philadelphia: Todd Bertuzzi (RW)
I like this deal from both perspectives. Like you said Gagne has speed, a great shot and is a deft playmaker, but on top of that, he's also a decent defensive player. He's not big, but he could easily put up 30-35 goals playing in the Western Conference in Crawford's offensively inclined system. Woywitka is a good young defenseman who could step into the NHL very soon and make a mark. He won't be a #1 guy, but he'll be a very solid #2/3 guy and would be a nice compliment to Jovo and Ohlund. The 1st pick allows the Canucks to have more maneurvability on draft day.

As for the Flyers, they get the big, bruising power forward that John LeClair used to be. Bertuzzi would thrive in the eastern conference and would give the Flyers a marquee name to build around(most of their players are veterans on the downsides of their careers). The sticking point would be salary, more importantly the salary of players such as John LeClair and Jeremy Roenick. If Bertuzzi is traded, especially to a team like the Flyers, he's going to want to make as much as the top guys make, and Leclair is making close to $10 mil.

In any case, I think the value is there, but there is no way I make this trade unless I know that Bertuzzi is only out for the money which I think he is not.

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10-10-2003, 09:33 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpearson1968
Mike Comrie, Janne Rita and a 2nd rounder for Bertuzzi ? Vancouver gets instant return from a playmaker like Comrie, the best rookie prospect around, and a future pick - up.

Edmonton gets a proven winner.

????????
The Oilers could add in Ryan Smyth there, and I wouldn't bite. Nothing about the package, but I want Bertuzzi as far away from Vancouver as humanly possible - IF we trade him. Which it's looking like won't have to be a problem, according to radio updates this morning.

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10-10-2003, 09:34 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
It would take a lot more than that for Vancouver to deal Bertuzzi to a division rival like Edmonton.
Not to mention, if the Canucks are moving Bertuzzi for monetary reasons, the Oilers are the last team that'd be making inquiries.

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10-10-2003, 10:06 AM
  #132
ginner classic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpearson1968
Mike Comrie, Janne Rita and a 2nd rounder for Bertuzzi ? Vancouver gets instant return from a playmaker like Comrie, the best rookie prospect around, and a future pick - up.

Edmonton gets a proven winner.

????????
are we talking about the same Rita?????

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10-10-2003, 10:06 AM
  #133
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While I have no doubt that Bert is one of the best players in the NHL, at 8 million dollars a team could sign an elite free agent in today's market(Fedorov for example) and keep all their draft picks and good players. As a power forward, he is going to have a short, injury plagued career; just like Cam Neely and John LeClair which will further drive down his value. If you want to move a player making that kind of money, no matter how good he is, you will not get comparable value without taking some salary back. Clearly Pittsburg did not get comparable value for Kovalev, for example.

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10-10-2003, 10:10 AM
  #134
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Toronto: Bertuzzi
Canucks: Green, Hogland, Corson & ...

Ummm, Hold it ...
Forget it ....

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Old
10-10-2003, 10:18 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by MojoJojo
While I have no doubt that Bert is one of the best players in the NHL, at 8 million dollars a team could sign an elite free agent in today's market(Fedorov for example) and keep all their draft picks and good players. As a power forward, he is going to have a short, injury plagued career; just like Cam Neely and John LeClair which will further drive down his value. If you want to move a player making that kind of money, no matter how good he is, you will not get comparable value without taking some salary back. Clearly Pittsburg did not get comparable value for Kovalev, for example.
This is a completely different situation from the Kovalev situation.
The Canucks will get Bertuzzi signed as long as he doesn't demand an obscene amount. There was no chance that the Penguins were going to sign Kovalev, so unlike the Canucks, the Penguins only real option was to trade him. And because of their money issues, they could not take on any significant salary in return. While Vancouver is not the second coming of the Rangers (who can afford to throw millions at fourth liners ), they are not cash-strapped like the Penguins are. The Penguins got basically nothing but a wad of cash and a couple serviceable depth players for Kovalev because they had no options because of their lack of money.
And if you want to try and argue that Bertuzzi may have his career shortened by injury, go ahead. But the fact is, he has not missed a game to injury in the past two seasons despite his very physical and aggressive style. It may eventually take a toll as he ages, but there's no indication that it will.
And Bertuzzi only has a base contract of $3.7 million this season. I read somewhere that if he gets every bonus, he'll make $5.22 million. That's certainly not an obscene amount considering he almost scored 50 goals last season and piled up 25 on the power play. He may demand big bucks after this season, but I'm not sure what his demands are. I don't think it would be something like $8 to $10 million a year, though.

 
Old
10-10-2003, 10:19 AM
  #136
Jon Burke
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Originally Posted by Bob's your uncle ...
Toronto: Bertuzzi
Canucks: Green, Hogland, Corson & ...

Ummm, Hold it ...
Forget it ....
TorTrader?

 
Old
10-10-2003, 10:28 AM
  #137
ginner classic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
While I have no doubt that Bert is one of the best players in the NHL, at 8 million dollars a team could sign an elite free agent in today's market(Fedorov for example) and keep all their draft picks and good players. As a power forward, he is going to have a short, injury plagued career; just like Cam Neely and John LeClair which will further drive down his value. If you want to move a player making that kind of money, no matter how good he is, you will not get comparable value without taking some salary back. Clearly Pittsburg did not get comparable value for Kovalev, for example.
I don't disagree that you can sign a 34 year old centre to 8 million and be quite well off.....we will see how effective Feds is in three years when he is still making 9 per.

Apparently we have turned the NHL into Bizarro world where players' trade values drop as they approach their prime. If anyone can give me an example of this actually occuring (where not driven by salary) I would be totally impressed. Trevor Linden at 26 years old was worth more in a trade than Trevor Linden at 20 would have been. Sme goes for all players. Bert is smack dab in the middle of his top producing years and his value is low (all while making 3.5 per)....what planet are you from dude?

Again...as has been pointed out before the Tkachuk deal is the best comparison of what Bert would fetch in a trade....it was recent...the situation was similar (except Tkachuk was asking for 8.5 - 9 million on his next contract while most estimates put Bert's asking price at around 7 and Bert is now a more dominant player than Tkachuk ever was).

In addition I think if you are going to look at UFA contracts you must use Guerin and Holik as comparatives.....9 million minimum for a second tier 31 year old PF. Tkachuk was traded in March 2001 and Jagr four months later so we cannot really say the economic reality was different between the two (Jagr wanted 11 million and the pens were in danger of going bankrupt). Tkachuk was also coming off three injury plagued campaigns. So why exactly is bert at 7 million (maybe a touch too much for vancouver) worth so little? If Bert is unsigned by March and the Cancuks are in danger of not making the playoffs a trade is very possible, though at this point i would be shocked if he is not re-signed.

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10-10-2003, 01:33 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by xtra
cause its a division rival and more speciffically the AVS.


it would cost: Morris + Hejduk +Col 1st 04 for bertuzzi and van 3rd 05
So if the Canucks wanted Hejduk then they're have to trade Naslund, Ohlund and a first because they are division rivals??

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10-10-2003, 01:38 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Man
So if the Canucks wanted Hejduk then they're have to trade Naslund, Ohlund and a first because they are division rivals??
Yes.

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10-10-2003, 01:43 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Yes.
Hey BES, are the Canucks interested in Hejduk?? :p

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10-10-2003, 04:39 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
are we talking about the same Rita?????
Well... if we could get Rita McNeil to become American in the trade, I'd consider it.

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10-10-2003, 05:11 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Man
I doubt that Burke would trade Bertuzzi to a division rival (or trade Bertuzzi at all, for that matter), but just for fun...

To Colorado:
Todd Bertuzzi
2nd/VAN/04

To Vancouver:
Derek Morris
Alex Tanguay
1st/COL/04
I wouldn't touch this with a 39 and a half foot pole. Todd Bertuzzi and a second round pick for a defensemen we already have several better and poor man's versions of(Jovanovski, Ohlund>Morris<Sopel, Salo), a "leach player" who's stats are bloated by the guys he plays with, and a mid- to low- first round pick and on top of that, to a divisional rival.

No way.

On the other hand, the Komi/Zednik/1st for Bertuzzi(and was there anything else involved?) was a supremely excellent offer...I'd be all over that. Zednik has excellent sniping ability, definitely capable of 30+ a season, and Komi would give us a hard rock defensemen. And Montreal's 1st rounder would be a vast improvement over our own. A very good offer.

My own suggestion...

To Phoenix:
Todd Bertuzzi, Artem Chubarov, 3rd Rounder

To Vancouver:
Ladislav Nagy, Krystofer Kolanos, David LeNeveu, 1st Rounder

~Canucklehead~

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10-10-2003, 05:14 PM
  #143
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<DIV>[QUOTE=canucklehead17]I wouldn't touch this with a 39 and a half foot pole. Todd Bertuzzi and a second round pick for a defensemen we already have several better and poor man's versions of(Jovanovski, Ohlund>Morris

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10-10-2003, 05:51 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Man
Hey BES, are the Canucks interested in Hejduk?? :p
No

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10-10-2003, 08:09 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
No
Interest in getting him as far away from Vancouver as possible? Yes.

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10-10-2003, 09:48 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by KL
Jovo is better than Morris. Morris is better than anyone else on the 'Nucks. By a lot. Tanguay would be a 1st liner, Bertuzzi or no Bertuzzi.

Dont be such a homer.
Hey, the entertainment's back!

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10-11-2003, 01:18 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by KL
Jovo is better than Morris. Morris is better than anyone else on the 'Nucks. By a lot. Tanguay would be a 1st liner, Bertuzzi or no Bertuzzi.

Dont be such a homer.

--
KL
Have you heard of a guy called Ohlund?? Considering the way Salo played last year, and the way he is continueing to play now I would be tempted to take him over Morris as well. Tempted.. all things considered though with potenial injuries age.. you'd have to go with Morris.. but still.

Tanguay.. you mean the guy who gets to play with Forsberg? For sure he's a 1st liner.. But if he didn't have the chance to leech of Forsberg he'd just be another average 2nd liner..

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10-11-2003, 03:06 AM
  #148
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I'd be looking for a Bure like return, I'd even argue Bure was worth less in trade because of his history, his $10m salary and injury questions. The Bure trade was was effectively Jovo, Weekes and a good 1st rnder.

This breaks down to

Elite young player (Jovo, former 1st overall)
Reasonable to good prospect
Solid 1st (not a top 5 type 1st rnder, but more in the 10-15 range)

A top team can't offer much more than a 25-30th pick 1st rnder which is worth a lot less than a 10-15 pick, so they might have to bump up the prospect a little.

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10-11-2003, 05:58 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KL
Tanguay would be a 1st liner, Bertuzzi or no Bertuzzi.

Dont be such a homer.



Maybe as soon as Tanguay can prove he isn't a product of the rest of this team (something he has yet to do even on the Avs)

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10-11-2003, 06:49 AM
  #150
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remember when KL considered morris a scrub who wasn't nearly the player Skoula was.... oh how things have changed but the people remain the same.... homer.

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