HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

The gardening thread (aka: getting rid of the weeds thread)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-09-2003, 09:48 AM
  #1
Lafontaine
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 368
vCash: 500
The gardening thread (aka: getting rid of the weeds thread)

There are so many players on the Habs that just DON'T fit into the big picture. I can't help but wonder when we will weed out these unwanted individuals and make room for our young plants to grow! Juneau, Dackell, Brisboise, Perreault and Audette are the obvious ones - who else doesn't fit in the long term plan. Which vets do you see sticking with the Habs for the long haul? Koivu, Zed, Bulis, Souray, Theo, Markov, Komi, Sundstrom, Ryder, Ward are probably the nucleus, who gets added to that list in everyone's opinion?

Lafontaine is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:07 AM
  #2
Hab at it
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,638
vCash: 500
Well if worse comes to worse and it turns out to be impossible to trade any of them then Juneau, Dackell and Perreault are in the last year of their contracts and we can be rid of them at the end of the year.

Audette's contract runs out at the end of next year and Brisebois' the year following. If there is a strike/lockout for a year we will be rid of Audette by the time we start playing again and can buy out Breezer for the million that is in the clause for the final year of his contract.

As to who may not be in the long term plans for the team here's my list:

Ribs: He has the talent but we cannot have a 1-2 punch of Koivu and Ribs it is giving us too small of centers.

Plekanec: Same reason as Ribs.

Quintal: Getting long in the tooth and will probably retire in a couple of years.

One of Theo or Garon: I think that Theo's contract year will be telling. If he can regain the form of two years ago, or at least close to it, and prove that he can play consistantly at that level it will be bye-bye Garon. If on the other hand Theo gets outplayed this year and next by Garon and it appears that Garon has lived up to his draft potential I think the club will trade Theo and go with the younger cheaper Garon.

Langdon: He's a great waiver pick-up but is already 32 and will probably only be effective as an enforcer for the next couple of years.

Miroy: With Kastsitsyn, Zednik, Ward and Ryder all being RW'ers young and proving that they are hungry to make the NHL I think that opens up Milroy to being used in a trade package.

Balej: See Milroy, also Balej is projected to be a top 2 liner and if AK-47 turns out to be as good as talked about and Zed being a shoe-in then that leaves no place left for Balej.

For the others I'd have to give more thought. And this response is already way longer than I'd planned.

Hab at it is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:18 AM
  #3
FlavorFlav
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Zimbabwe
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
I agree the team needs some serious weeding, but how do we get rid of this dead weight??? Way sub-par players with big contracts...not a good combo. What is the solution? My own opinion: Eating some of the salary and trading for picks (no more players!!) Unless of course we can unload 2-3 players for some sizeable forward of course.

What do you guys think? We all know it needs to happen, but the question is, CAN it happen?

FlavorFlav is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:31 AM
  #4
LPHabsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,338
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LPHabsFan
Guys, im not gonna get into a whole long thing but imo any person with decent hockey knowledge will tell you that you can never have anough good prospects/good veterans. Its called depth and the more depth you have the better because no one know what could happen with contract talks and injuries.

LPHabsFan is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:46 AM
  #5
Histrion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Fortified City
Posts: 3,338
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Histrion
Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan
Guys, im not gonna get into a whole long thing but imo any person with decent hockey knowledge will tell you that you can never have anough good prospects/good veterans. Its called depth and the more depth you have the better because no one know what could happen with contract talks and injuries.
Yes, you can have too much veterans: there will probably be a salary cap when the next season start, you just can't afford to have grossly overpaid veterans like we do.

Histrion is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:46 AM
  #6
habsfansam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere dark...?
Country: United Nations
Posts: 660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hab at it
As to who may not be in the long term plans for the team here's my list:

Ribs: He has the talent but we cannot have a 1-2 punch of Koivu and Ribs it is giving us too small of centers.

Plekanec: Same reason as Ribs.
...
Miroy: With Kastsitsyn, Zednik, Ward and Ryder all being RW'ers young and proving that they are hungry to make the NHL I think that opens up Milroy to being used in a trade package.

Balej: See Milroy, also Balej is projected to be a top 2 liner and if AK-47 turns out to be as good as talked about and Zed being a shoe-in then that leaves no place left for Balej.
Question: isn't plekanec almost 200 pounds? When i see ribiero on the ice he looks small (unfortunately same with Koivu), but plekanec doens't look small at all... it'd be my bet that he's durable and can fill a role on a non-scoring line if needbe. Rumor has it that he's a team-first kind of player.

As for Balej and Milroy having no place to play, i think that both can learn to play wherever they are needed... both guys seem bright and while they are offensive-minded, wasn't Carbo a purely offensive younger player who had to learn to play D to make his team, and look what he became.

If we're thinking long term, it is definitely the 3rd and 4th lines that make championship teams in this league... if my 3rd and 4th liners are better than yours then i'm more likely to get an extra goal or two from my checkers and come out on top (all things being equal for the 1st lines... obviously colorado will rip through just about everyone with their talent this year, but that's an anomaly in the NHL). Given two or three years in the minors to develop a 2way game under Jarvis, i think the non-elite offensive players will make the habs MUCH better by fulfilling tight checking roles. Look at guys like McCarty, Draper, and Maltby who can score, and play the tight checking game... The key is to have defined roles for those players to fill when you do bring them up.

With a deep prospect pool,you just tell the players that they can make the club, but only in a checking role... how many guys riding the buses would pass on the NHL because they think a checking line role is beneath them? I think the surplus is a good thing...

BTW i do agree with most of your cuts, though i'd like to see juneau teaching the game down on the farm...

habsfansam is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 11:57 AM
  #7
Darz
Registered User
 
Darz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Where's the ANY key?
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,377
vCash: 500
If a young player prospect shows he deserves regular NHL ice time management WILL make a spot for him, be it through a trade or releasing a vet or something, but the prospect must prove to be worthy of the spot.
For example, management sent down Dykhuis and Traverse, because other younger players (Komi, Hainsey, Boullion) prove they were ready.

Don't worry, no one is standing in the way of our prospects getting full time NHL roles, but they aren't going to be handed them, they must prove they deserve them, and prove they can keep them.

Darz is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 12:01 PM
  #8
habfan4
Registered User
 
habfan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Deus Amat Pretzel
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,427
vCash: 500
Isn't this a contract year for Perreault, Q, Dackell, Juneau and Brisebois (club option next year). If so, this time next year, the vet vs. rookies/prospects problem will have taken care of itself.

habfan4 is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 12:10 PM
  #9
Hab at it
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfansam
Question: isn't plekanec almost 200 pounds? When i see ribiero on the ice he looks small (unfortunately same with Koivu), but plekanec doens't look small at all... it'd be my bet that he's durable and can fill a role on a non-scoring line if needbe. Rumor has it that he's a team-first kind of player.

As for Balej and Milroy having no place to play, i think that both can learn to play wherever they are needed... both guys seem bright and while they are offensive-minded, wasn't Carbo a purely offensive younger player who had to learn to play D to make his team, and look what he became.

If we're thinking long term, it is definitely the 3rd and 4th lines that make championship teams in this league... if my 3rd and 4th liners are better than yours then i'm more likely to get an extra goal or two from my checkers and come out on top (all things being equal for the 1st lines... obviously colorado will rip through just about everyone with their talent this year, but that's an anomaly in the NHL). Given two or three years in the minors to develop a 2way game under Jarvis, i think the non-elite offensive players will make the habs MUCH better by fulfilling tight checking roles. Look at guys like McCarty, Draper, and Maltby who can score, and play the tight checking game... The key is to have defined roles for those players to fill when you do bring them up.

With a deep prospect pool,you just tell the players that they can make the club, but only in a checking role... how many guys riding the buses would pass on the NHL because they think a checking line role is beneath them? I think the surplus is a good thing...

BTW i do agree with most of your cuts, though i'd like to see juneau teaching the game down on the farm...
I agree with you that depth is a good thing and overall your idea of the best 3/4 lines make championships is accurate but you still need a legit 1st and 2nd line also. While we do have the talent for good lines 2-4 I feel we are missing a true top line other than Koivu the top line are good 2nd liners but only marginal 1st liners.

That aside, I'm not sure what Plekanec's stats are although I remember that he is short(by NHL standards), and going by what I've read, since I haven't seen him play before, it sounds like he's more of a finesse player and doesn't really use his weight to his advantage, but as you said a year or more under Jarvis could do wonders.

As for Balej and Milroy the way I was looking at it was, for the first or second lines who would be better, Balej and Milroy or Zednik and Kastsitsyn? To me I choose that latter. I asked the same question for lines 3 and 4 except with Ward and Ryder and IMO Ward and Ryder offer more to a team on those lines than the other two. Of course this is all speculation as I have no idea what the future will bring. For all I know Milroy and Balej could have absolute breakout years, blow everyone away and prove that they are the best for the job.

Hab at it is offline  
Old
10-09-2003, 12:13 PM
  #10
Hab at it
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
Isn't this a contract year for Perreault, Q, Dackell, Juneau and Brisebois (club option next year). If so, this time next year, the vet vs. rookies/prospects problem will have taken care of itself.
Yes to all those but Brisebois. This is the 2nd year or a 4 year contract but there is a $1,000,000.00 buy out clause in the final year of his contract.

For those that are Breezer haters the worst case senario is that we could have him for 2 more years then but him out relatively inexpensively.

Hab at it is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.