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Old
10-26-2005, 03:18 AM
  #76
Daily Special
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
You're right. He pales in comparison to Tom Preissing or Jim Fahey.
I never said Fahey or Preissing for Leopold, I Just laughed at that guy for implying Leopold was worth a Forsberg caliber guy. That guy needs to check out the going price tags and player stats before he starts throwing around the words "HUGE return" and "Leopold trade" in the same sentence.

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10-26-2005, 03:21 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
I never said Fahey or Preissing for Leopold, I Just laughed at that guy for implying Leopold was worth a Forsberg caliber guy. That guy needs to check out the going price tags and player stats before he starts throwing around the words "HUGE return" and "Leopold trade" in the same sentence.
"That guy?"

I have a name... who the hell are _you_?

Show me where I said he warrants a Peter Forsberg caliber return.

Jordan Leopold would get a top six forward in return along with a draft pick or prospect. That's a huge return and exactly what the Flames are looking for.

Don't want words in my mouth, .


Last edited by Gee Wally: 10-26-2005 at 12:37 PM. Reason: over the line
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10-26-2005, 07:21 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
No can do. Calgary takes on too much salary. I like Parrish, but our RW is set. I also like Niinimaa, but we already have Hamrlik, Phaneuf and Ference as our offensive D men.

Maybe something like...

To NYI: Jordan Leopold, Jason Wiemer
To Calgary: Trent Hunter, Jeremy Colliton


I know that Hunter is a RW, but this might entice Kobasew to be pushed to C, and Reinprecht to LW to solidify that position. Hunter could then play behind Iginla, and play on a line with Kobasew and Reinprecht. Hunter is a Red Deer boy to boot, so Sutter might like that (how cliche).

Colliton is a great C prospect that Calgary seems to be short of... he would be a great player to have and develop in the system.

NYI gets their PP guy in Leopold, but with Zhitnik and Niinimaa there already, they may not have a use for Leopold on the top line pairing (unless Niinimaa leaves at some point in the near future).

Wiemer is in there because Darth likes him.

How many yrs before Leopolds eligible for unrestricted free agency?

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10-26-2005, 08:11 AM
  #79
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I think a differance needs to be drawn here between Leopold struggling offensively (and by extension defensively) and not putting up the numbers. I've watched several Calgary games this year and have keyed in on Leopold and he appears to be playing it very safe, using his finesse skills to get the puck out of danger and defend his zone while not being overly concerned with jumping into the play. It also doesn't help him that their PP totally blows.


Last edited by Rabid Ranger: 10-26-2005 at 01:44 PM.
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10-26-2005, 10:27 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
I think a differance needs to be drawn here between Leopold struggling offensively (and by extension defensively) and not putting up the numbers. I've watched several Calgary games this year and have keyed in on Leopold and he appears to be playing it very safe, using his finesse skills to get the puck out of danger and defend his zone while not being overtly concerned with jumping into the play. It also doesn't help him that their PP totally blows.
I totalyl agree, or the fact that he isn't on the #1 PP. It has been Hammer/Phaneuf getting the big PP minutes most games.

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10-26-2005, 01:21 PM
  #81
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Leopold was taken in the 2nd round, finished with a point total of 33 in 04 during a Cinderella Calgary run, and is pointless in 10 games this season so far. It isn't rocket science to understand he isn't worth a "HUGE" return.

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10-26-2005, 01:24 PM
  #82
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Leopold has been playing on the left side for first time since he turned pro with Regehr out. It changes the way you play and think, explaining the lack of production so far. You obviously haven't watched him play though.

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10-26-2005, 01:39 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
Leopold was taken in the 2nd round, finished with a point total of 33 in 04 during a Cinderella Calgary run, and is pointless in 10 games this season so far. It isn't rocket science to understand he isn't worth a "HUGE" return.
He could command about the same as Stuart on your team,i'm not compairing them as Dman but Leopolds value should be about the same if not better considering he makes less than 1m for the next 2 years and won't be a FA for 4 more years.
Like i said at the start of this thread,he's not being used to potental right now because of the Hamrlik signing and Phaneuf playing like a god right out of junior.

Make no mistake,Leopold has great talents (probably a top 3 skating Dman in the league) and every GM knows this!

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10-26-2005, 01:46 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
Leopold was taken in the 2nd round, finished with a point total of 33 in 04 during a Cinderella Calgary run, and is pointless in 10 games this season so far. It isn't rocket science to understand he isn't worth a "HUGE" return.
We're talking about a defenseman here, not Chris Clark. Offensive production is nice for a D-man, but in the end it's his ability to defend his zone that is key, and Leopold is doing that well. The numbers will come. How many points are you expecting him to put up anyway?

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10-26-2005, 02:05 PM
  #85
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I'm personally not at all concerned about Leopold's offensive numbers because 1) points are not the barometer by which I judge dmen - even offensive dmem. I definitely agree that a great dman could use his finese skills to keep the puck out of the net more than putting up points. 2) He is still young and there are going to be ups and downs in his game.

That said, I don't see what Leopold has accomplished to make him worth some of the return being suggested here, i.e., Trent Hunter AND Jeremy Colliton. I wouldn't give Trent Hunter for Leopold straight up, let alone throw in one of our best prospects. I like Leopold a lot, but not enough to give up a physical 20 - 25 goal scoring winger (a rare asset in today's NHL).

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10-26-2005, 02:28 PM
  #86
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This is one of the worst threads ever. Leopold leads the Flames in ice time with his partner out of the lineup and people are speculating about him being moved. He is affordable and Sutter is a huge fan of his. Anyone who follows the flames could tell you that he has not been benched or shown any sign of disfavour by Sutter. He will not be moved unless it is another team overpaying to get him. Chances Sutter is shopping him are slim to none.

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10-26-2005, 02:40 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Footscray
This is one of the worst threads ever. Leopold leads the Flames in ice time with his partner out of the lineup and people are speculating about him being moved. He is affordable and Sutter is a huge fan of his. Anyone who follows the flames could tell you that he has not been benched or shown any sign of disfavour by Sutter. He will not be moved unless it is another team overpaying to get him. Chances Sutter is shopping him are slim to none.
Thanks

First off i didn't say he was being shopped,i was just wondering what fans of other teams would give up for him.A good GM will deal from strength to fix a weakness and clearly the Flames strength is depth on the blueline.

Maybe i should have suggested a Montador for Blake trade

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10-26-2005, 03:02 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
Thanks

First off i didn't say he was being shopped,i was just wondering what fans of other teams would give up for him.A good GM will deal from strength to fix a weakness and clearly the Flames strength is depth on the blueline.

Maybe i should have suggested a Montador for Blake trade
Honestly, I don't think Blake's trade value is huge. He is a useful player, but a limited one.

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10-26-2005, 03:08 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
Leopold was taken in the 2nd round, finished with a point total of 33 in 04 during a Cinderella Calgary run, and is pointless in 10 games this season so far. It isn't rocket science to understand he isn't worth a "HUGE" return.
33 points is darn impressive when one considers how low scoring was last year.

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10-26-2005, 03:17 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
He could command about the same as Stuart on your team,i'm not compairing them as Dman but Leopolds value should be about the same if not better considering he makes less than 1m for the next 2 years and won't be a FA for 4 more years.
Like i said at the start of this thread,he's not being used to potental right now because of the Hamrlik signing and Phaneuf playing like a god right out of junior.

Make no mistake,Leopold has great talents (probably a top 3 skating Dman in the league) and every GM knows this!
Disagree. I like Leopold quite a bit and realize he's had a rough start but I don't think his value is near Stuarts, regardless of the salary difference. Stuart has the talent to become a top 10 defenseman in the league, Leopold top 20-30 (in terms of overall game).

Could be a case of Stuart having a more prominent role over a longer time...but I still think he'll be an elite defenseman within 2-3 years.

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10-26-2005, 03:31 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Slaughter Value
Disagree. I like Leopold quite a bit and realize he's had a rough start but I don't think his value is near Stuarts, regardless of the salary difference. Stuart has the talent to become a top 10 defenseman in the league, Leopold top 20-30 (in terms of overall game).

Could be a case of Stuart having a more prominent role over a longer time...but I still think he'll be an elite defenseman within 2-3 years.
I'm with you, PSV. I'm not sure Leopold's trade value is nearly as high as is being suggested here.

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10-26-2005, 03:48 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Slaughter Value
Disagree. I like Leopold quite a bit and realize he's had a rough start but I don't think his value is near Stuarts, regardless of the salary difference. Stuart has the talent to become a top 10 defenseman in the league, Leopold top 20-30 (in terms of overall game).
We'll agree to disagree then,I like Stuart a lot,he has a slightly better PPG average but i think Leopold is a little better defensivly and is a better skater.Sutters system and Dman depth in Calgary probably hinders his point totals but have made him a very good all around player.

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10-26-2005, 03:54 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
That said, I don't see what Leopold has accomplished to make him worth some of the return being suggested here, i.e., Trent Hunter AND Jeremy Colliton. I wouldn't give Trent Hunter for Leopold straight up, let alone throw in one of our best prospects. I like Leopold a lot, but not enough to give up a physical 20 - 25 goal scoring winger (a rare asset in today's NHL).
Aw, c'mon Darth... you wouldn't do Leopold for Hunter straight up? Value-wise it's fair though, right?

Hunter is EXACTLY the type of player Calgary needs right now. Great talent, and an Alberta boy to boot.

The Samsonov offer is still pretty good as well.

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10-26-2005, 03:56 PM
  #94
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calgary wants a top 6 forward who is defensively responsible and can score some pts. how about
to vancouver: leopold
to calgary: cooke, pick(s) or prospect(s)
ASSUMING the canucks have a major injury to one of the top 4 (ohlund, jovo, salo, allen). because right now vancouver's defense is fine, but if one of the top 4 is out for an extended period of time we could be in trouble.

 
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10-26-2005, 03:56 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Aw, c'mon Darth... you wouldn't do Leopold for Hunter straight up? Value-wise it's fair though, right?

Hunter is EXACTLY the type of player Calgary needs right now. Great talent, and an Alberta boy to boot.

The Samsonov offer is still pretty good as well.
Nope. I wouldn't do Hunter straight up, and I don't see the value as fair. Take a look at their rookie years, and tell me which player accomplished more.

Hunter hasn't scored a lot for the Isles so far, but on most nights he is our best forward on the ice. I think he is headed toward a monster year.

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10-26-2005, 03:57 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKarateMonkey
calgary wants a top 6 forward who is defensively responsible and can score some pts. how about
to vancouver: leopold
to calgary: cooke, pick(s) or prospect(s)
ASSUMING the canucks have a major injury to one of the top 4 (ohlund, jovo, salo, allen). because right now vancouver's defense is fine, but if one of the top 4 is out for an extended period of time we could be in trouble.
Cooke is not a tops 6 forward, he is a third line forward, and he has yet to show he can score points.

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10-26-2005, 04:03 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Pure Slaughter Value
Disagree. I like Leopold quite a bit and realize he's had a rough start but I don't think his value is near Stuarts, regardless of the salary difference. Stuart has the talent to become a top 10 defenseman in the league, Leopold top 20-30 (in terms of overall game).

Could be a case of Stuart having a more prominent role over a longer time...but I still think he'll be an elite defenseman within 2-3 years.
Imo, Leo is more physically talented than Stuart, the only thing Stuart has on him is he's a bit more physical.

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10-26-2005, 04:20 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Cooke is not a tops 6 forward, he is a third line forward, and he has yet to show he can score points.
cooke isnt a top 6 forward on the canucks roster, but he can be a top 6 forward on some other teams in the nhl. hes stuck on the LW behind naslund and sedin, but he can put up 2nd liner stats if given the chance. he prove last season after the bertuzzi suspension that he can play on the top line and not look out of place. hes not proven as a score yet, but its due more to circumstances then talent.

 
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10-26-2005, 04:24 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKarateMonkey
cooke isnt a top 6 forward on the canucks roster, but he can be a top 6 forward on some other teams in the nhl. hes stuck on the LW behind naslund and sedin, but he can put up 2nd liner stats if given the chance. he prove last season after the bertuzzi suspension that he can play on the top line and not look out of place. hes not proven as a score yet, but its due more to circumstances then talent.
Cooke is a third line forward who you are personally projecting to be a 2nd line scorer. I'd like to have a dollar for every third liner that hometown fans projected to a higher level like that. And, btw, last year when he did get high level ice time, he still failed to be much of a scorer.

Expecting Calgary to trade a top pairing dman for a player of that ilk is simply not realistic.

In all honesty, I think the only VCR forwards with trade value in Leopold's league might be the Sedins (and, here, I am considering $, age, and contract length).

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10-26-2005, 04:49 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Cooke is a third line forward who you are personally projecting to be a 2nd line scorer. I'd like to have a dollar for every third liner that hometown fans projected to a higher level like that. And, btw, last year when he did get high level ice time, he still failed to be much of a scorer.

Expecting Calgary to trade a top pairing dman for a player of that ilk is simply not realistic.

In all honesty, I think the only VCR forwards with trade value in Leopold's league might be the Sedins (and, here, I am considering $, age, and contract length).
well, with players like cooke and leopold, its mostly about projection, isnt it? cooke is a third liner right now that i think can produce at a average 2nd liner level. leopold is a solid top 4 right now, and you are projecting him to be a top pairing dman. dont get me wrong, i do think leopold will fulfill his potential, but right now i dont think hes quite there yet. but its all about projection, on how you think a player will do in the future in a certain role.
also, i think cooke put up decent # playing with naslund and morrison. he have 4 pts in 7 games in the last playoff. thats 2nd liner #.

 
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