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Marty Biron and EdmOnton

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Old
10-30-2005, 06:55 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
he will never amount to a first line center, imo. although he has improved {some fans are liking his play this year a lot} i see him as a definate odd man out. from what iv'e seen and heard he has looked better but still his usual self. he's been mostly playing with Kotalik and Afinogenov, and that line has looked good at times, chipping in with some timely offence. my issue is that i think it would look even better with Roy centering it.....
RE: Connolly.

It wouls have to be a sweet deal. Connolly is being groomed for #1 PK and #1 PP duty, along with centering the 2nd line. Roy ain't there yet.

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10-30-2005, 07:02 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj@jj.com
RE: Connolly.

It wouls have to be a sweet deal. Connolly is being groomed for #1 PK and #1 PP duty, along with centering the 2nd line. Roy ain't there yet.
i just don't see where he fits in. Briere, Drury, Roy, Gaustad, that should be our 4 centers right now. Roy and Gaustad will get better as well. TC is one of Regier's favourites, and thats why he's still on the team, and given the PP/PK duty, i think

he's definately improved, but i still see him as the preverbial odd man out. to me, he is the kind of player that can only be really effective if he is a first line player. and he's not good enough for that.

i would take less than his value in a trade. addition by subtraction. and if using him as a sweetener in a deal means the difference between moving Biron, or not moving Biron, then i wouldn't think twice about it. of course, Regier would.

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10-30-2005, 07:20 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin


and as for Noronen... i absolutely 100% think Biron is the guy to move. Noronen can work as a backup and {imo} has the ability to be a starter if Miller really does faulter. Biron as the 'backup' to Miller will just get messy, and we will have the same situation over again.

I agree.. Up to a point.

1 - Noronen has proved absolutely nothing in his NHL career. He has potential, yes... But has proven far less than Biron, and now Miller... He's 27, not 19.

2 - Biron's character... Even if he does let in softies sometimes, he has two things working for him... His ablity to shake them off, and his confidence he's the #1 guy. IMO; I still think he'll very possibly end up having the best career of the three, but that character could get in the way of him being a backup to Miller, and things could get, as you say, messy.

Also, Timmah's had some real strong games, and the ATM line has won some good games for the Sabres, which is more than you could say for the majority of other 3rd (2b) lines in the NHL at this point.

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10-30-2005, 09:09 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
i just don't see where he fits in. Briere, Drury, Roy, Gaustad, that should be our 4 centers right now. Roy and Gaustad will get better as well. TC is one of Regier's favourites, and thats why he's still on the team, and given the PP/PK duty, i think
Roy can be moved to wing.

And I don't think Regier tells Ruff who to playo n the PK and PP.

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10-30-2005, 09:51 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
i just don't see where he fits in. Briere, Drury, Roy, Gaustad, that should be our 4 centers right now. Roy and Gaustad will get better as well. TC is one of Regier's favourites, and thats why he's still on the team, and given the PP/PK duty, i think

he's definately improved, but i still see him as the preverbial odd man out. to me, he is the kind of player that can only be really effective if he is a first line player. and he's not good enough for that.

i would take less than his value in a trade. addition by subtraction. and if using him as a sweetener in a deal means the difference between moving Biron, or not moving Biron, then i wouldn't think twice about it. of course, Regier would.
I see Connolly's role finally being defined in Buffalo. He can be a very good 2nd line center who can man the top PK and PP units. Connolly is an intelligent hockey player. If he never gets any better than he is now he's still a solid player to have.... and the ceiling is still sky high on him. using him as a throw in to make a Biron deal isn't even a consideration. thats a just a lame hater comment.

Connolly has much more all around skills than Kotalik. although i like what ive seen from Kotalik. and it seems his role is being defined. this team has sorely needed a PP specialist and Kotalik is putting the puck in the net... i just dont think he has the tools to be a top 6 forward.

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10-30-2005, 10:05 AM
  #56
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I'd Take Semenov for Biron. As For Connolly, he is easily out playing Drury right now. I would'nt trade him at this point.


Biron for Semenov

Pyatt to I.R.

Call Up Roy.

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10-30-2005, 10:57 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer
I'd Take Semenov for Biron. As For Connolly, he is easily out playing Drury right now. I would'nt trade him at this point.


Biron for Semenov

Pyatt to I.R.

Call Up Roy.
Id do Biron for Semenov too, hopefully with a conditional pick based on Games played and Birons performance

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Old
10-30-2005, 10:58 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto
I agree.. Up to a point.

1 - Noronen has proved absolutely nothing in his NHL career.
he has never been given the chance too... but i think i've heard this arguement before....

.....anyway

Quote:
Also, Timmah's had some real strong games, and the ATM line has won some good games for the Sabres, which is more than you could say for the majority of other 3rd (2b) lines in the NHL at this point.
yep. i didn't see the game but i heard he was good last night. but as i said, i just wonder what that line could do with Roy on it instead. this has been discussed a lot on the Sabres forums, and here's my arguement. i don't want to go on too much as we're sliding very OT here, but....

if TC can prove me and others wrong, then good luck to him. if that 'atm' line grows into a real consistant 2nd line, it would help the team out a lot. that can only be a good thing, right? but we'd still have to move somebody and that won't change. we have too many players, and the odd man out for me would then become Drury, as SR alluded to. some fans will be upset by that no doubt, but thats the way i see it.

Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov

they would be two all round good lines, assuming that the 'atm' clicks long term. you then have to find somewhere for Vanek, and also Roy {either at wing or center... i personally like him as a center but haven't seen too much of him at wing}. there is no way he should be in the AHL, and a similar arguement could be made for Pominville also. you then have the 4th line with 3 of Pyatt, Gaustad, Mair, and Grier on it. i love the physical play of the latter three, and Pyatt's game has impressed me a bit this year, even if its been of nothing more than a 4th line grinder, and with the players we have in the system i don't see him holding down the role long term. Grier and Pyatt's salaries are also very high for the players they are. As is Drury's, especially if he's gonna be stuck down on the 3rd line in a strictly checking role. the Drury arguement has been done to death, but i stick by my opinion. if he became the odd man out we'd get a decent return for him, i think.

the bottome line is that we have to move somebody, and right now TC is the logical choice. if he continues upping his game, then it could become a difficult decision, but one that will still need to be made. its not as easy as just saying 'move a goalie' or 'drop Peters'.


Quote:
And I don't think Regier tells Ruff who to playo n the PK and PP.
ok, lets say that he's one of Ruff's favourites as well


Quote:
I see Connolly's role finally being defined in Buffalo. He can be a very good 2nd line center who can man the top PK and PP units. Connolly is an intelligent hockey player. If he never gets any better than he is now he's still a solid player to have.... and the ceiling is still sky high on him.
lets not get carried away here. as usual, players are only becoming as good as their last game. TC still needs work on his defensive play, and needs to use that 'intelligence' better. he still makes too many mistakes. and i don't think the ceiling is that high on him. a few years ago sure, but time is running out. i don't see him being a top line player at all. but as i said, if that line continues to click, and grows together, then he's definately going to be a useful player. its still a big if for me.


Quote:
Connolly has much more all around skills than Kotalik.
i disagree. they are the kind of players that will compliment each other if both are playing at the top of their game, so comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges. but still, i rate Kotalik as a better player. easily.


Quote:
although i like what ive seen from Kotalik. and it seems his role is being defined. this team has sorely needed a PP specialist and Kotalik is putting the puck in the net... i just dont think he has the tools to be a top 6 forward.
he does, and i think he's shown it this year. he also showed it in 02/03 with a great season, and parts of 03/04 when he wasn't hurt or in the infamous Doghouse.

theres a strong arguement to be made that he's been our best player this season so far, outside of Briere of course.

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Old
10-30-2005, 11:01 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
Id do Biron for Semenov too, hopefully with a conditional pick based on Games played and Birons performance
what sabres fan wouldn't?! i'd do it straight up and run. anything on top would be a bonus. i like what i've seen out of Semenov.

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Old
10-30-2005, 11:26 AM
  #60
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How bout simply
to Buf:
Semenov
Rita
3rd

to Edm
Biron
Kotalik

I'd love to see Kotalik mature with Hemsky...

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Old
10-30-2005, 11:50 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impressingagent
leave it to an otawa fan to talk about biron not being anything special. Maybe you forgot how well he played aganist your team before the lockout. hows the dominator doing for you guys these days?
Clearly use must be a little slow. Go back and read my posts, I'm pulling for the oil to get Biron cuz I think he is a very good goalie and would improve their team immediately. I said he wasn't a "saviour" (responding to the words of an Oil fan), but that is all I said - dumbass.

As far as your question goes, the dominator has been incredible.

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Old
10-30-2005, 01:36 PM
  #62
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If the Sabres need callup goaltending, how does

Semenov + Morrison for Biron sound?

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Old
10-30-2005, 04:41 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
the bottome line is that we have to move somebody, and right now TC is the logical choice.
the only someone we have to move is a goalie. the "bottom line" is the Sabres are winning. and you want to trade away their co-captain and/or their skilled 3rd line center because???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
TC still needs work on his defensive play, and needs to use that 'intelligence' better. he still makes too many mistakes. and i don't think the ceiling is that high on him. a few years ago sure, but time is running out. i don't see him being a top line player at all. but as i said, if that line continues to click, and grows together, then he's definately going to be a useful player. its still a big if for me.
Connolly had been one of the better forwards defensively this year. a lot better than Kotalik. He's becoming a very dependable penalty killer, and makes the right play with the puck in the defensive zone. is he going to plow anyone over... no... is he going to cough the puck up and over stick handle...yes... but he's no worse defensively than half the other skaters in buffalo.

Id hate to be the GM who said the same thing your saying about guys like Briere, St Louis, etc. time is not running out on Connolly... in fact the time just started running and he's only going up.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
theres a strong arguement to be made that he's been our best player this season so far, outside of Briere of course.
i doubt it. im listening for that argument? He'd have a tough time cracking the top 5-10. let alone one of the best.

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Old
10-30-2005, 04:44 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insider
How bout simply
to Buf:
Semenov
Rita
3rd

to Edm
Biron
Kotalik

I'd love to see Kotalik mature with Hemsky...
Rita is garbage, but if swapping Kotalik and Rita is what it took to move Biron and get Semenov and a 3rd I'd do it. can Rita be sent down to the minors without having clearing waivers?

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10-30-2005, 04:56 PM
  #65
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lets not get carried away here. as usual, players are only becoming as good as their last game. TC still needs work on his defensive play, and needs to use that 'intelligence' better. he still makes too many mistakes. and i don't think the ceiling is that high on him. a few years ago sure, but time is running out. i don't see him being a top line player at all. but as i said, if that line continues to click, and grows together, then he's definately going to be a useful player. its still a big if for me.




i disagree. they are the kind of players that will compliment each other if both are playing at the top of their game, so comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges. but still, i rate Kotalik as a better player. easily.




he does, and i think he's shown it this year. he also showed it in 02/03 with a great season, and parts of 03/04 when he wasn't hurt or in the infamous Doghouse.

theres a strong arguement to be made that he's been our best player this season so far, outside of Briere of course.[/QUOTE]



I really think you have jersey numbers mixed up. Connolly is completely the better player. He plays an intregal part on the penalty kill,plays the point on the powerplay and is a good playmaking center. What can you say about Kotalik? The only good part of his game is his shot.

You talk about mistakes,how about Ales falling over his own skates and fanning on two straight passes on the powerplay the other nite?

Connolly's d cant be that bad if the trust him with top pk minutes and letting him play the point on the pp.

Im sorry the upside on a 24 yr old 5th overall pick is greater then that of the 28 yr.old one dimensional play of Kotalik.

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Old
10-30-2005, 04:57 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
Rita is garbage, but if swapping Kotalik and Rita is what it took to move Biron and get Semenov and a 3rd I'd do it. can Rita be sent down to the minors without having clearing waivers?
if you dont want Rita, I'm willing to give up a 3rd and a pick anywhere from 4th to 6th...

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10-30-2005, 08:30 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insider
if you dont want Rita, I'm willing to give up a 3rd and a pick anywhere from 4th to 6th...
make it Semenov and 2nd for Biron and the deal is done done done.

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10-30-2005, 08:45 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
make it Semenov and 2nd for Biron and the deal is done done done.
I wouldn't move either of those assets alone for Biron. He looked decent last night but he's still paid a lot of money to sit on the bench in Buffalo. I can see a deal being worked out around Semenov but I would be expecting something else to be coming from Buffalo. Something like Semenov, Rita + a pick for Biron and Kotalik could make sense.

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10-30-2005, 09:04 PM
  #69
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They won't trade Kotalik. At The Moment other then Briere he's the only guy scoring.

Unless Edmonton has an interest in Jillson(Doubtfull) The only asset Buffalo is looking to move is Biron.

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10-30-2005, 09:19 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer
They won't trade Kotalik. At The Moment other then Briere he's the only guy scoring.

Unless Edmonton has an interest in Jillson(Doubtfull) The only asset Buffalo is looking to move is Biron.
Noronen?

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10-30-2005, 10:05 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreDude2631
Make it a little more positive like

To Edmonton: Martin Biron,Tim Connolly and Jeff Jillson

To Buffalo: Alexei Semenov, Marty Reasoner and a 3rd rounder

Then we accept the trade
Buffalo have no use for Reasoner (Briere, Roy, Drury, Gaustad)

Buffalo are low on D prospects/

Biron for Semenov

or

Biron for Greene

Buffalo would take either of those deals IMO. They may need to add more to get Greene.

Matt Greene's scouting report from HockeysFuture.com

" ... Greene adjusted remarkably well to the crackdowns on obstructions by the league and didnít seem to miss a step along the way. His hard-hitting, intense style earned him the adoration of the UND community while striking fear in the opposition. Itís also an attribute that should serve him very well at the pro level."

He is 6'3, 225 lbs. Sounds exactly like what Buffalo want.

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10-30-2005, 10:16 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgess1978
Buffalo have no use for Reasoner (Briere, Roy, Drury, Gaustad)

Buffalo are low on D prospects/

Biron for Semenov

or

Biron for Greene

Buffalo would take either of those deals IMO. They may need to add more to get Greene.

Matt Greene's scouting report from HockeysFuture.com

" ... Greene adjusted remarkably well to the crackdowns on obstructions by the league and didnít seem to miss a step along the way. His hard-hitting, intense style earned him the adoration of the UND community while striking fear in the opposition. Itís also an attribute that should serve him very well at the pro level."

He is 6'3, 225 lbs. Sounds exactly like what Buffalo want.
I can't see Edmonton moving Greene after dealing away Woywitka and Lynch in the Pronger trade. He's had a pretty good start in Iowa and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a few NHL games under his belt by the time the season ends.

I don't think the Oilers should move Semenov unless Buffalo adds something to Biron. He's making a lot of money for a guy that has only played one game this season and I'm guessing that will make a lot of GM's quite hesitant to deal for him.

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10-30-2005, 10:59 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
I wouldn't move either of those assets alone for Biron. He looked decent last night but he's still paid a lot of money to sit on the bench in Buffalo. I can see a deal being worked out around Semenov but I would be expecting something else to be coming from Buffalo. Something like Semenov, Rita + a pick for Biron and Kotalik could make sense.
Biron is only sitting on the bench in Buffalo because our netminder of the future finally decided to show up. Biron is a proven NHL #1 starting netminder. his contract is fair in comparison to starter pay around the league.

Biron is worth more than Semenov and Kotalik is worth a lot more than Rita IMO. If you want Kotalik in the package with Biron you're going to have to pony up Greene.

We can redo the first deal and add Jillson in.

Biron and Jillson for Semenov and 2nd

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Old
10-30-2005, 11:11 PM
  #74
Cerebral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
Biron is only sitting on the bench in Buffalo because our netminder of the future finally decided to show up. Biron is a proven NHL #1 starting netminder. his contract is fair in comparison to starter pay around the league.

Biron is worth more than Semenov and Kotalik is worth a lot more than Rita IMO. If you want Kotalik in the package with Biron you're going to have to pony up Greene.

We can redo the first deal and add Jillson in.

Biron and Jillson for Semenov and 2nd
Fair enough... I personally don't see the Oilers offering anything more than Semenov. I definitely don't think they'll offer up Semenov and a 2nd rounder when similar goaltenders have been dealt for far less than that in recent memory. It will be interesting to see what ends up happening...

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10-30-2005, 11:17 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
Biron is only sitting on the bench in Buffalo because our netminder of the future finally decided to show up. Biron is a proven NHL #1 starting netminder. his contract is fair in comparison to starter pay around the league.

Biron is worth more than Semenov and Kotalik is worth a lot more than Rita IMO. If you want Kotalik in the package with Biron you're going to have to pony up Greene.

We can redo the first deal and add Jillson in.

Biron and Jillson for Semenov and 2nd
If salary was of no consideration at all - then you are right - but we have a cap now and Biron's $2 million a year is a huge issue. Given what Marty is being paid - you will have very few takers until late in the season. So the best thing you can probably do is sit on him until the trade deadline unless you would take Conklin and a 2nd round pick. Jillson was on waivers so we could have had him for nothing if we wanted him - we didn't.

However - if you would take Semenov OR a 2nd rounder for Noronen - that would be fine with me.

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