HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Hockey Talk by Country > Russia
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

U18 Russian team

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-15-2015, 02:41 PM
  #51
Fantomas
Registered User
 
Fantomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Part of me says that I wish there were a way, but banning free movement would be overly restrictive and take away their right to seek a job wherever they wish.
They can move wherever they wish. A ban would mean consequences towards their ability to find a job back home after making the move abroad, or to be part of the national team.

Russia will not win in the capital game. What it should do instead is emphasize national pride, which should stress the importance of developing at home up to a certain age and learning the game the proper way.

Fantomas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-15-2015, 07:43 PM
  #52
wings5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
They can move wherever they wish. A ban would mean consequences towards their ability to find a job back home after making the move abroad, or to be part of the national team.

Russia will not win in the capital game. What it should do instead is emphasize national pride, which should stress the importance of developing at home up to a certain age and learning the game the proper way.
It's a very difficult position in terms of what to do, in the case of Czechs and Slovaks, many used to come over because the quality of the junior leagues was not up to par and they were receiving amateur level coaching with alot of politics involved. This is not the case in Russia except some cases of politics in coaching, player selection, icetime etc in a few circumstances. In general though, the Russian junior leagues should be strong enough to produce quality players. The thing is though, the mass exodus of players for NA only started a few years ago, before that it's not like they were producing considerably more talent than they are now. The kids want to come because they dream of the spotlight and see it as the fastest way to the NHL, when in reality this may not be the case and there are no shortcuts.

Production of centers and defenseman has been an issue also I mean I don't believe Barkov would have developed into an elite center prospect had he been developed in Russia. There may some internal problems as well in Russian hockey that I'm unaware of.

wings5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 12:58 AM
  #53
Atas2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
In fact, all the players who are great in the NHL - Ovechkin, Malkin, Tarasenko, and so on, developed in Russia, while the high profile players that have migrated to the CHL (Yakupov, Grigorenko,) have failed to reach expected potential. I can't think of anyone who has come to the CHL from Russia who has clearly benefitted from it, but many who have fallen off the face of the Earth, so to speak!
somebody should just give some stats to the kids and parents considering moving to NA. But I'm guessing there is a bunch of agents that would create a firewall just to prevent the kids from seeing the obvious.

Atas2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 10:19 AM
  #54
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
They can move wherever they wish. A ban would mean consequences towards their ability to find a job back home after making the move abroad, or to be part of the national team.

Russia will not win in the capital game. What it should do instead is emphasize national pride, which should stress the importance of developing at home up to a certain age and learning the game the proper way.
I agree with you on this. As long as they don't do anything political to restrict movement, I think that the RHF, KHL and MHL have the right to defend their hockey interests by providing for disincentives for players leaving to go to NA. Most of the guys who go to Canada or the US at age 17 or 18 perform poorly, lose confidence, and end up quitting hockey before they ever have a chance to come back home. I have also always believed that coaches like Bragin should give preference to kids playing in Russia when all else is relatively equal.

Yakushev72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 10:22 AM
  #55
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
somebody should just give some stats to the kids and parents considering moving to NA. But I'm guessing there is a bunch of agents that would create a firewall just to prevent the kids from seeing the obvious.
I suspect that agents are 95% of the reason why these kids are deluded into going.

Yakushev72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 12:21 PM
  #56
Fantomas
Registered User
 
Fantomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I have also always believed that coaches like Bragin should give preference to kids playing in Russia when all else is relatively equal.
Emphasis on relatively equal of course. But right now too many good players are in the CHL and they have to bring them onto the national team in order to win.

Fantomas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 12:22 PM
  #57
Fantomas
Registered User
 
Fantomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I suspect that agents are 95% of the reason why these kids are deluded into going.
"Imagine all the pizza you will eat"

Fantomas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 06:28 PM
  #58
cska78
Registered User
 
cska78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 11,697
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to cska78 Send a message via Yahoo to cska78
at this age it's a lot of peer to peer communication between the kids; so I would not just blame the agents (only)

cska78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 06:51 PM
  #59
Fantomas
Registered User
 
Fantomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,797
vCash: 500
It's the shared mythology about American zagranitsa. Has existed for a long time. I think Kabanov should be hired by the state to teach courses about the dangers of the overactive imagination.

Fantomas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 08:39 PM
  #60
Passionis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 128
vCash: 500
I'm really hoping that this gets addressed with the new methodology that fhr is developing. If the restrict free movement it will only create resentment like during late Soviet days and the kids would still leave by running away during international tournaments. I don't think we want that kind of pr.

I actually think that if this u18 program goes well, as it has now, this will be important piece of puzzle to say - look you could go to Na like those guys and end up another half finished product or you could stay in this great u18 program and get taught by the best.

Honestly I was very sceptical of this program in the beginning, but now it looks like they are doing it right with a good twist from Soviet days while inviting experts to teach these guys in all aspects of becoming good hockey players and good people to avoid future kabanovs

Passionis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-16-2015, 10:22 PM
  #61
Fantomas
Registered User
 
Fantomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,797
vCash: 500
Late-Soviet resentment was the result of a loss of faith in the state. And there were many factors that contributed to that. I don't think select limitations on player movement will create resentment.

I remember the late 80s very well. It was a different time. People actually thought that American capitalism would solve all of their problems. Perceptions have changed and I think it is time to start closing this door as well.

Fantomas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2015, 11:10 AM
  #62
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passionis View Post
I'm really hoping that this gets addressed with the new methodology that fhr is developing. If the restrict free movement it will only create resentment like during late Soviet days and the kids would still leave by running away during international tournaments. I don't think we want that kind of pr.

I actually think that if this u18 program goes well, as it has now, this will be important piece of puzzle to say - look you could go to Na like those guys and end up another half finished product or you could stay in this great u18 program and get taught by the best.

Honestly I was very sceptical of this program in the beginning, but now it looks like they are doing it right with a good twist from Soviet days while inviting experts to teach these guys in all aspects of becoming good hockey players and good people to avoid future kabanovs
You can go to the Hockey Canada website and watch the replays of the full games of the "World Junior A Challenge" going on in Canada. The Russian team beat Canada East, 6-1, and honestly, it looked like Soviet hockey the way they played. The Russian team was everywhere, controlling the puck, winning the battles, and putting heavy pressure on the Canadian net. It may be tempting to try this at other levels as a way to keep the kids at home for their junior years.

Yakushev72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2015, 04:29 PM
  #63
cska78
Registered User
 
cska78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 11,697
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to cska78 Send a message via Yahoo to cska78
but still, best players for this age are playing in the chl. Playing together gave them the advantage Canadian kids have because of their system, which we lack.

cska78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2015, 05:10 PM
  #64
malkinfan
Registered User
 
malkinfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 4,005
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to malkinfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
You can go to the Hockey Canada website and watch the replays of the full games of the "World Junior A Challenge" going on in Canada. The Russian team beat Canada East, 6-1, and honestly, it looked like Soviet hockey the way they played. The Russian team was everywhere, controlling the puck, winning the battles, and putting heavy pressure on the Canadian net. It may be tempting to try this at other levels as a way to keep the kids at home for their junior years.
Result of great coaching. Prokhorov is a smart man, I hope his methods spread through Russian hockey.

Why not, Im all for an U20 team in the VHL.

malkinfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2015, 08:31 PM
  #65
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Russia defeats the USA in the Semifinal, 7-4, to advance to the Gold Medal game. Russia scored on 41% of its shots on goal (no, I'm not crazy - 17 shots, 7 goals).

Yakushev72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 12:29 AM
  #66
Passionis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Result of great coaching. Prokhorov is a smart man, I hope his methods spread through Russian hockey.

Why not, Im all for an U20 team in the VHL.
Vhl may cause bad habits with mediocre refereeing and possibly more injuries, and khl team is too expensive.

But maybe it's worth a try

Passionis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 12:35 AM
  #67
Passionis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
You can go to the Hockey Canada website and watch the replays of the full games of the "World Junior A Challenge" going on in Canada. The Russian team beat Canada East, 6-1, and honestly, it looked like Soviet hockey the way they played. The Russian team was everywhere, controlling the puck, winning the battles, and putting heavy pressure on the Canadian net. It may be tempting to try this at other levels as a way to keep the kids at home for their junior years.
When I click to watch it just shows the very end of the game..

I've watched a few games in mhl and this team downright dominates in possession. It's actually very fun to watch, the guys all have quiet impressive puckhandling and skating. Not just because they are talented, To me it looks like clear result of the practice they've been putting in.

Passionis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 02:50 AM
  #68
wings5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passionis View Post
When I click to watch it just shows the very end of the game..

I've watched a few games in mhl and this team downright dominates in possession. It's actually very fun to watch, the guys all have quiet impressive puckhandling and skating. Not just because they are talented, To me it looks like clear result of the practice they've been putting in.
I find it very strange how small the players on the team are though, many forwards around 5'8-5'10 and no defensemen with great size either.

wings5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 10:39 AM
  #69
Passionis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
I find it very strange how small the players on the team are though, many forwards around 5'8-5'10 and no defensemen with great size either.
I think they're going to grow still.. The current u20 have all added a few inches and lots of pounds since their u18 weigh ins

Passionis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 11:16 AM
  #70
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passionis View Post
When I click to watch it just shows the very end of the game..

I've watched a few games in mhl and this team downright dominates in possession. It's actually very fun to watch, the guys all have quiet impressive puckhandling and skating. Not just because they are talented, To me it looks like clear result of the practice they've been putting in.
You may have accessed it while the game was still being played. You can go back and watch the entire game just by clicking on the score banner for the game at the top of the tournament page.

Yakushev72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 11:21 AM
  #71
Yakushev72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
I find it very strange how small the players on the team are though, many forwards around 5'8-5'10 and no defensemen with great size either.
Although the situation has improved, differences in body size related to nutrition probably still persist.

Yakushev72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 11:29 AM
  #72
Passionis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Although the situation has improved, differences in body size related to nutrition probably still persist.
We have the tallest u20 team this year and been top 3 in the last few ones. Im not worried

Passionis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 12:51 PM
  #73
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rostov-on-Don
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 10,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Although the situation has improved, differences in body size related to nutrition probably still persist.
Our guys are smaller because they lack nutrition? LOL

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 02:54 PM
  #74
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rostov-on-Don
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 10,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
In fact, all the players who are great in the NHL - Ovechkin, Malkin, Tarasenko, and so on, developed in Russia, while the high profile players that have migrated to the CHL (Yakupov, Grigorenko,) have failed to reach expected potential. I can't think of anyone who has come to the CHL from Russia who has clearly benefitted from it, but many who have fallen off the face of the Earth, so to speak!
Scherbak is the only non-defensemen I can think of who has benefited from the CHL.

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2015, 03:05 PM
  #75
Fantomas
Registered User
 
Fantomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Scherbak is the only non-defensemen I can think of who has benefited from the CHL.
Maybe, but he's nothing special either way.

Fantomas is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.