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Canucks/Pens proposal

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Old
10-31-2005, 03:04 PM
  #1
membleypeg
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Canucks/Pens proposal

To Vancouver - Marc Andre Fleury
To Pittsburgh - Corey Schneider, Brent Skinner, 2006 1st round pick.

Rationale

Vancouver has a short window to challenge for the cup (Naslund and Bert will be out of their prime in 2-3 years). Fleury is poised to become a # 1 goaltender. On a team with a strong defence, he could gain his confidence and ride the Canucks through the season and playoffs. Fleury could be a top tender for a number of years.

For the Penguins. Corey Schneider is a highly rated goalie who is 2-3 years away from making his NHL debut. Skinner is also a few years away, with projections showing him having the potential to be a good offensive defenseman (power play quarterback). The first rounder is to complete the deal, as Fleury has greater potential to become a #1 goalie than does Schneider. The Pens would be looking to add more strength to the future with this deal. Also, Fleury has had setbacks in his earlier chances in Pittsburgh. He may need a fresh start.

As for the cap inplications, Vancouver would have to get rid of Cloutier. This would be a gamble as Cloutier has much more experience than Fleury however, Cloutier has had his chances to get Van through the playoffs and has failed (even though injuries have been a major contributor to his failure).

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10-31-2005, 03:25 PM
  #2
Peter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by membleypeg
To Vancouver - Marc Andre Fleury
To Pittsburgh - Corey Schneider, Brent Skinner, 2006 1st round pick.

Rationale

Vancouver has a short window to challenge for the cup (Naslund and Bert will be out of their prime in 2-3 years). Fleury is poised to become a # 1 goaltender. On a team with a strong defence, he could gain his confidence and ride the Canucks through the season and playoffs. Fleury could be a top tender for a number of years.

For the Penguins. Corey Schneider is a highly rated goalie who is 2-3 years away from making his NHL debut. Skinner is also a few years away, with projections showing him having the potential to be a good offensive defenseman (power play quarterback). The first rounder is to complete the deal, as Fleury has greater potential to become a #1 goalie than does Schneider. The Pens would be looking to add more strength to the future with this deal. Also, Fleury has had setbacks in his earlier chances in Pittsburgh. He may need a fresh start.

As for the cap inplications, Vancouver would have to get rid of Cloutier. This would be a gamble as Cloutier has much more experience than Fleury however, Cloutier has had his chances to get Van through the playoffs and has failed (even though injuries have been a major contributor to his failure).
You begin this post with the concept that the Canucks have a "short window to challenge for the cup"...yet you propose a trade that will only benefit the Canucks long-term. Towards the end you say yourself that getting rid of Cloutier would be a gamble because he has more experience than Fleury. Listen...if Fleury won't stick with the Penguins right now then one has to ask the question "how far could Canucks go in the playoffs with a tandem of Fleury and Auld?". Not too far initially...but in a few years it could work out great for Vancouver. But because you are citing this trade as being a possible help to the Canucks landing the Cup sooner than later...well...I would then have to pass on this trade. If you want to propose this on the basis of a future development...years down the road...I say great...but Cloutier stays with Canucks, as does Auld, and Fleury plays in the minors.

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Old
10-31-2005, 03:41 PM
  #3
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I am sure the Pens would gladly pass on this trade. MAF is an elite level talent who is tearing up the AHL now that he has been given some stability and direction from the organization (not to mention that they finally sprung for a full time goalie coach).

There is no way the Pens trade MAF..........The only players that would garner interest are other super prospects (Kari L., etc) and they are untouchable in their own right.

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Old
10-31-2005, 03:48 PM
  #4
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I can't see why Pittsburgh would do this, to be honest.

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Old
10-31-2005, 03:48 PM
  #5
Big McLargehuge
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The Pens won't be trading Fleury anytime soon.


No.

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Old
10-31-2005, 03:49 PM
  #6
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Fleury isn't struggling with the Pens. The Pens won't bring him up because they invested 1.5M in Thibault and would have to pay Fleury up to 3M if he reaches his bonuses.

Fleury outplayed both T-Bo and Caron in training camp, and the few games he's played on the Pens, didn't better than either. Your idea that Fleury isn't doing well with the Pens is completely inaccurate.

And why trade a goalie that has proven he is NHL ready, at worse one year away (but is being kept down by management), for a goalie that may be ready in 2-3 years? This is almost like trading Luongo for DiPietro.

And those set-backs? You mean an 18 year old rookie that got bombared with 30+ shots a night with the leagues worst defense in front of him? Anyone is going to wear down from that.

We have Gonchar for 5 years, Jackman is producing, and Whitney is one of the highest rated offensive d-man prospects and has just been called up. Why would we want an offensive d-man prospect who will be ready later?

In reality, this trade does absolutely nothing for the Pens. There is no sense at all in doing it.

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Old
10-31-2005, 03:58 PM
  #7
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Why would the Canucks be interested in an HF boards consensus 'bust'?

In all seriousness, my detailed response is . . . . No.

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Old
10-31-2005, 03:59 PM
  #8
Lionel Hutz
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No. *click* dialtone.....

This proposal is very bad.

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Old
10-31-2005, 04:10 PM
  #9
jhopspensfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by membleypeg
To Vancouver - Marc Andre Fleury
To Pittsburgh - Corey Schneider, Brent Skinner, 2006 1st round pick.

Rationale

Vancouver has a short window to challenge for the cup (Naslund and Bert will be out of their prime in 2-3 years). Fleury is poised to become a # 1 goaltender. On a team with a strong defence, he could gain his confidence and ride the Canucks through the season and playoffs. Fleury could be a top tender for a number of years.

For the Penguins. Corey Schneider is a highly rated goalie who is 2-3 years away from making his NHL debut. Skinner is also a few years away, with projections showing him having the potential to be a good offensive defenseman (power play quarterback). The first rounder is to complete the deal, as Fleury has greater potential to become a #1 goalie than does Schneider. The Pens would be looking to add more strength to the future with this deal. Also, Fleury has had setbacks in his earlier chances in Pittsburgh. He may need a fresh start.

As for the cap inplications, Vancouver would have to get rid of Cloutier. This would be a gamble as Cloutier has much more experience than Fleury however, Cloutier has had his chances to get Van through the playoffs and has failed (even though injuries have been a major contributor to his failure).
Start with ONE of Ohlund/Jovo, add Morrison and then we can start negotiating.

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Old
10-31-2005, 04:23 PM
  #10
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhopspensfan
Start with ONE of Ohlund/Jovo, add Morrison and then we can start negotiating.
Jovo is an impending UFA.

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Old
10-31-2005, 04:36 PM
  #11
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Who's Brent Skinner?

No dice.

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Old
10-31-2005, 04:39 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
Who's Brent Skinner?

No dice.
A top 5 defenseman prospect in the entire NCAA last year.
Won a couple of NCAA championships with Denver and captained that team.

He is playing in the AHL this year.

A good prospect. A potential #4 defenseman. Will develop into, at least, an AHL journeyman / #6 material.

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10-31-2005, 04:40 PM
  #13
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No dice still.

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Old
10-31-2005, 05:14 PM
  #14
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From where I'm sitting Mario and his Pens have a shorter window to win the cup than the Nucks currently do. A real proposal would include a player or players people have heard of and not Corey Schneider and Brent Skinner.

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Old
10-31-2005, 05:27 PM
  #15
sunb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackdogs
From where I'm sitting Mario and his Pens have a shorter window to win the cup than the Nucks currently do. A real proposal would include a player or players people have heard of and not Corey Schneider and Brent Skinner.
I don't think the Pens have any sort of window to win the cup.

This coming from a big Pittsburgh fan.

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Old
10-31-2005, 05:36 PM
  #16
Lionel Hutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
I don't think the Pens have any sort of window to win the cup.

This coming from a big Pittsburgh fan.
You can't be a big Pittsburgh fan and be that ignorant of the prospect depth.


Regardless, this deal stinks. For the Pens to pull the trigger on a big trade, it would have to be for defensive help now. this is offering mid-grade prospects for one of the Pens cornerstone prospects, which will create a gaping hole in the team's rebuilding plan. The value may be not be that ridiculous, but the premise of it is.

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Old
10-31-2005, 05:41 PM
  #17
Jag68Sid87
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Counter-proposal...

I would deal Fleury to the Canucks for Luc Bourdon, Cory Schneider and 2 first round picks.

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Old
10-31-2005, 07:58 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
Counter-proposal...

I would deal Fleury to the Canucks for Luc Bourdon, Cory Schneider and 2 first round picks.
Hahaha, I assume you are kidding. Fair enough, this deal probably is lop-sided towards the Canucks.

To be honest, the Canucks have NO REASON to trade for a young, un proven goalie. We have great deph in young goalies, if we are going to make a trade for a goalie it is going to be a proven clear upgrade over Cloutier.

Probably a better trade would be

To Vancouver:
Orpik (Someone of his value)
Fleury
2-4 Draft Pick.

To Pittsburgh
Allen

If you have being watching Allen you would agree with this. Allen would be the Pens best defensive d-man and maybe best all around d-man. He has look awesome thus far.

You would of course get a resounding "Hell no" from myself and pretty much all Canuck fans. But the problem is the fact the Canucks won't be trading any "immediate help" while the Pens will be looking for "immediate help" until they have given up on the season which shouldn't be for quite a while.

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Old
10-31-2005, 08:45 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb
Probably a better trade would be

To Vancouver:
Orpik (Someone of his value)
Fleury
2-4 Draft Pick.

To Pittsburgh
Allen

If you have being watching Allen you would agree with this. Allen would be the Pens best defensive d-man and maybe best all around d-man. He has look awesome thus far.

You would of course get a resounding "Hell no" from myself and pretty much all Canuck fans. But the problem is the fact the Canucks won't be trading any "immediate help" while the Pens will be looking for "immediate help" until they have given up on the season which shouldn't be for quite a while.
Oh baby, this is absolutely GOLD!

The best part is bolded, of course, since you're implying the Canucks are not getting enough back.

A number four defenseman, for a franchise goaltender, a number four defenseman, and a draft pick.

I sincerely hope you're joking.

One of the worst proposals I've ever seen.



P.S.: I just read your post again and that part about a resounding no from Canucks fans is having me DIEING laughing on the floor. Thanks bud, I needed this.


Last edited by RoyIsALegend*: 10-31-2005 at 08:50 PM.
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Old
10-31-2005, 08:54 PM
  #20
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I like Comfortably Numb's deal

Hoo-boy...

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Old
10-31-2005, 08:55 PM
  #21
Lionel Hutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb
Hahaha, I assume you are kidding. Fair enough, this deal probably is lop-sided towards the Canucks.

To be honest, the Canucks have NO REASON to trade for a young, un proven goalie. We have great deph in young goalies, if we are going to make a trade for a goalie it is going to be a proven clear upgrade over Cloutier.

Probably a better trade would be

To Vancouver:
Orpik (Someone of his value)
Fleury
2-4 Draft Pick.

To Pittsburgh
Allen

If you have being watching Allen you would agree with this. Allen would be the Pens best defensive d-man and maybe best all around d-man. He has look awesome thus far.

You would of course get a resounding "Hell no" from myself and pretty much all Canuck fans. But the problem is the fact the Canucks won't be trading any "immediate help" while the Pens will be looking for "immediate help" until they have given up on the season which shouldn't be for quite a while.
Don`t get me wrong, I like Allen, but you have got to be kidding me.

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Old
10-31-2005, 08:58 PM
  #22
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I really don't know what to say.

Maybe we should toss in Malkin, Whitney, and Welch to get Cory Schneider, too.

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Old
10-31-2005, 09:02 PM
  #23
KH1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
A top 5 defenseman prospect in the entire NCAA last year.
Won a couple of NCAA championships with Denver and captained that team.

He is playing in the AHL this year.

A good prospect. A potential #4 defenseman. Will develop into, at least, an AHL journeyman / #6 material.
That doesn't make him worth the difference between Fleury and Schnieder even with a first round pick. Hell, Ryan Caldwell was the #1 defenseman and captain of the national championship team in Denver the year before Skinner but if I asked you to trade a top tier NHL prospect like Thomas Vanek for somebody like Sean Bergenheim and offered Caldwell and a first in the deal I'd get slapped in the face.

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10-31-2005, 09:03 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb

To Vancouver:
Orpik (Someone of his value)
Fleury
2-4 Draft Pick.

To Pittsburgh
Allen
.
I don't know which trade is worse: this one, or the Bourdon, Schneider, and picks for Fleury.

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Old
10-31-2005, 09:05 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg
I don't know which trade is worse: this one, or the Bourdon, Schneider, and picks for Fleury.
The one proposed by Comfortably Numb, absolutely.

Not even close, IMO... two prospects and picks for a franchise goaltender, or a number four defenseman, for a number four defenseman, franchise goaltender and a draft pick.

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