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Should Vanek go to the minors?

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11-01-2005, 06:11 PM
  #1
OJ Calcium
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Should Vanek go to the minors?

His ice time is being reduced, should he be sent down before his confidence gets shot?

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11-01-2005, 06:12 PM
  #2
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I don't think we have to worry about him. It's been 11 games. He'll be fine.

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11-01-2005, 06:17 PM
  #3
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no he shouldnt get sent down. it will do no good. his decreasing ice time is enough to send the message. id like to see him shifted with Gaustad and Mair on the 4th line for a few games. but still give him PP time.

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11-01-2005, 07:14 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame
no he shouldnt get sent down. it will do no good. his decreasing ice time is enough to send the message. id like to see him shifted with Gaustad and Mair on the 4th line for a few games. but still give him PP time.
Honestly, I have been thinking about this for a long time. I see this situation as an extremely comparable one to that in Ottawa (with Brandon Bochenski). As we all know, Bochenski had a great rookie campaign in the AHL last year, as well as a HUGE camp/preseason with Ottawa, but was deemed to be not as ready as once thought, and was sent back down to the AHL. Logical move, right?

Here's where it differs:

Bochenski is removed from an Ottawa team that's extremely deep up front, with the likes of Dany Heatley, Martin Havlat, Daniel Alfredsson, Jason Spezza, Chris Neil, etc. They can afford to send him down (which is the proper move in their situation), and we couldn't afford to lose Vanek.

Let's be realistic. Vanek hasn't produced like we have expected statistically. And his play has tailed off these past few games. But, like it or not, he's a top 4 forward on our team AT THIS VERY MOMENT. We don't have the depth, or the supporting cast to send a weapon like him to the minors.

I'm extremely displeased with how TV has been performing as of late, but remember some things:

- He's a ROOKIE
- His slow start last year in Rochester only delayed a phenomenal season, where he was, more often than not, the best player on the ice.
- We're 7-4, with a huge week + of games upcoming. If we go on a skid, with losses and a continued decrease in production from TV, I'd revisit the idea.

It's still too early.

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11-01-2005, 07:55 PM
  #5
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if he continues getting 4th line minutes I see no point in having him in the NHL. May as well build up his confidence in Rochester.

If he gets put back on the ice in meaningful scoring situations he may be able to start shining again, but the way he was used in the last two games really does not help his game or confidence.

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11-01-2005, 07:59 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRuin
if he continues getting 4th line minutes I see no point in having him in the NHL. May as well build up his confidence in Rochester.

If he gets put back on the ice in meaningful scoring situations he may be able to start shining again, but the way he was used in the last two games really does not help his game or confidence.
agreed 100%

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11-01-2005, 09:10 PM
  #7
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He should be put back on the first line, where he was actually getting scoring chances.

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11-02-2005, 07:13 AM
  #8
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absolutely no way.

i hate to go on about it, but the way some people are with things is stupid. he has one good game or two, people are calling for him to win the calder, he has a couple of bad ones, and people are calling for him to be sent to Roch. its crazy. just give the guy time. very few players adapt to the nhl quickly, especially ones like Vanek. you have to expect a few slumps here and there. i have faith in him.

its also a question of linemates. Crosby would struggle to put up good points playing with Drury and Grier, and its just madness to be playing a guy like Vanek with them. ditto if you drop him to the 4th. once again, i hate to repeat myself in post after post, but we need another Briere, another creative center in place of Drury. i want to move Vanek up to the top line... but then i also wanna see Hecht and Dumont there as well. and the 'atm' is playing great at the moment too. maybe the answer is bringing Roy up, and having him center a line with Vanek on it, i'm not sure. or maybe replace TC with Roy and have him center Vanek instead.... i really don't know.

but if you are playing him in a checking role, send him down instead. your wasting his ability in both cases but at least his confidence won't be smashed to bits playing in the ahl.

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11-02-2005, 08:01 AM
  #9
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I think the next 3 games within the division will give us a very good idea. Division games will make or break our playoff chances, so the effort better be there. A key goal by TV will put a smile on all our faces.

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11-02-2005, 08:21 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
its also a question of linemates. Crosby would struggle to put up good points playing with Drury and Grier, and its just madness to be playing a guy like Vanek with them. ditto if you drop him to the 4th. once again, i hate to repeat myself in post after post, but we need another Briere, another creative center in place of Drury. i want to move Vanek up to the top line... but then i also wanna see Hecht and Dumont there as well. and the 'atm' is playing great at the moment too. maybe the answer is bringing Roy up, and having him center a line with Vanek on it, i'm not sure. or maybe replace TC with Roy and have him center Vanek instead.... i really don't know.
We have plenty of creative centermen, but what's going on with TV is not linemate-related. He's not putting forth the effort. I've watched the games. All of them; and the effort isn't there. When the effort isn't there you don't get the icetime. That's the Ruff way, and that's the way it should be. Team first, Vanek second. Lindy has been giving him one or two opportunities a game to get out of the doghouse (1st team PP, a shift with Briere) but it hasn't worked.

Regardless of what you think of Drury and Grier (which I vehemently disagree with), thye've created plenty of chances in the past 5 games but Vanek hasn't been playing with enough impetus to be a part of them.

The only guy he hasn't played with at this point is Timmah!. I could see Ruff giving them a game or two together to see if something clicks.

Vanek's game has been on the slide since the 1st road trip. This has been snowballing. A wake-up call or a trip to Rochester might do him some good. Lord knows Derek Roy deserves a callup.

Ta,

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11-02-2005, 09:45 AM
  #11
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Vanek should stay on the team strictly for shootout purposes. Even if he is ineffective during the game, if it comes down to a shootout he's our best weapon and can win a game for us with this skill alone.

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11-02-2005, 11:28 AM
  #12
Rowley Birkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joechip
We have plenty of creative centermen, but what's going on with TV is not linemate-related. He's not putting forth the effort. I've watched the games. All of them; and the effort isn't there. When the effort isn't there you don't get the icetime. That's the Ruff way, and that's the way it should be. Team first, Vanek second. Lindy has been giving him one or two opportunities a game to get out of the doghouse (1st team PP, a shift with Briere) but it hasn't worked.

Regardless of what you think of Drury and Grier (which I vehemently disagree with), thye've created plenty of chances in the past 5 games but Vanek hasn't been playing with enough impetus to be a part of them.

The only guy he hasn't played with at this point is Timmah!. I could see Ruff giving them a game or two together to see if something clicks.

Vanek's game has been on the slide since the 1st road trip. This has been snowballing. A wake-up call or a trip to Rochester might do him some good. Lord knows Derek Roy deserves a callup.

Ta,
i think he is the kind of player that you have to expect that kind of thing from, especially in his first year. i remember he took a lot of flak early season in Roch. last season, but it didnt last for too long. i think #9 is right, if he scores an important goal or two in the next week or so, then people will like him again...

i'm completely willing to put up with the bad, because i think with this guy, the good is gonna be very, very good.

i agree about Roy also, i've posted my views enough on that subject. we have too many players, Roy should be in Buffalo but not at the expense of Vanek.

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11-02-2005, 11:39 AM
  #13
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He has to learn about adversity at this level and a trip to the 4th line or up to the pressbox isn't out of the question if Ruff is stressing something that TV is not picking up. He was playing well and then Ruff shuffled him onto the Drury line, which while sparking Hecht again on the Briere line, has left Vanek looking like he has lost some confidence in what he is doing as plays he was creating early on are no longer even necessarily leading to shots let alone scoring chances or goals. It seemed Pyatt was getting the checking assigment role on the Drury line in the Jersey game, but with him out, they need to find him some minutes. The ATM line works pretty well, Hecht is back on track, that leaves Peters getting third line minutes if TV is demoted and I don't think anyone wants to see that.

Swap him back out with Hecht for a few games and see what happens or wait until Pyatt comes back and swing him down to the 4th line with some 2nd unit PP time. I don't think he needs re-assignment.

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11-03-2005, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ Calcium
His ice time is being reduced, should he be sent down before his confidence gets shot?
Yes, he should. He has totally stopped shoot and he has lost confidence. You sit him down tell him why he is going down. Once he starts scoring again, you call him up. For now the Sabres would be better having Roy or Pominville in the lineup because they have tons of confidence and Vanek has none.

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11-03-2005, 06:49 AM
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According to Jim Lorentz during last night's game, Ruff told him that Vanek has been battling the flu for a while. He is on antibiotics, and his energy level just isn't there right now.

Just passing it along for those that missed it.

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11-03-2005, 07:18 AM
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Thanks, I did miss that.

If true that would explain a lot. I'm not soured on Vanek, certainly, but something has not been right with him. Without the effort, he's just not effective. I want to see his confidence return, but not at the expense of the offense that's being generated. So, it's possible that a trip to Rochester would be good for him.

Ta,

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11-03-2005, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfWade
According to Jim Lorentz during last night's game, Ruff told him that Vanek has been battling the flu for a while. He is on antibiotics, and his energy level just isn't there right now.

Just passing it along for those that missed it.
If that's true, then it's stupid to even have him in the line-up. Why not let him rest? And the flu is a virus, anti-biotics don't do anything for that. So it must be something else, or something in addition to the flu.

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11-04-2005, 09:43 PM
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To answer the Q posed in this thread...YES.

EDIT: Call up Jillson or something, we need someone who can rub out opponents and clear the zone.

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11-04-2005, 10:22 PM
  #19
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I wouldn't send him down yet. When he was stinking up the joint early in his Amerks debut he didn't get sent down to the ECHL. He was a healthy scratch. That's exactly what the Sabres should do with him.

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11-04-2005, 10:25 PM
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he was invisible again tonight...

YES, send him down or sit him down...

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11-04-2005, 11:19 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
To answer the Q posed in this thread...YES.

EDIT: Call up Jillson or something, we need someone who can rub out opponents and clear the zone.
What if I told you Jillson can't do either of those things

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11-04-2005, 11:43 PM
  #22
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Zherdev only got benched, and got 2 goals+1 assist tonight. Did you see Columbus sending Zherdev down?

Simply put, you just CAN'T send Vanek down, who isn't producing that much worse than Afinogenov or Kotalik. You stick with this guy, and just be patient. If he doesn't get a goal in the next 10 games, you STILL stick with the guy.

Buffalo Sabres =/= Ottawa Senators. They have the luxury of sending Bochenski down, and still can score a boatload of goals per game.

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11-05-2005, 12:12 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brule
Simply put, you just CAN'T send Vanek down, who isn't producing that much worse than Afinogenov or Kotalik.
umm Kotalik has been one of our top players thus far notching 7 goals and 2 assist as well as being a +2...

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11-05-2005, 12:31 AM
  #24
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This city is so screwed up.

Vanek sucks, bench him

Losman sucks, play him

I'm so confused.

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11-05-2005, 12:38 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba
This city is so screwed up.

Vanek sucks, bench him

Losman sucks, play him

I'm so confused.
How about we make Vanek starting QB for the Bills and put Losman next to Briere and JP on the ice...

It just might work, they are both suppose to be saviors for their respctive teams so maybe a change in the sport will give them that boost they need...

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