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I don't care if we already beat Ottawa once...

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Old
11-04-2005, 12:15 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico_Persson
Also, I'm not certain that the addition of Forsberg and Hatcher have completely filled the departure of players lost from the season before. Its a close call.
On defense it is a close call, losing Markov and Ragnarsson, adding Rathje and Hatcher. (Malakhov = playoff rental)

On offense it's a big improvement, the Flyers lost Recchi, Leclair, Amonte and Roenick (Zhamnov =playoff rental) and the players which have been brought in instead are so far outperforming their predecessors and not by a small margin.

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11-04-2005, 12:16 PM
  #77
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This has really turned into a joke. First off, the playoffs are a WHOLE other story, and anyone can beat ANYONE. Since when do regular seasons records matter in the playoffs, is this something new? How many times have we seen a team have a better regular season record vs. a team only to lose to them in the playoffs?

Ottawa can beat Philly and Philly can beat Ottawa. ANY of the 8 teams have a shot at beating anyone. And arguing about whos going to beat who in the playoffs while 15 games into a season is retarded to me.

And WHY are all Philly fans expecting Hasek to be the Hasek on the Sabres? I re-iterated this point before but no one paid any attention. Hasek has to play good, that is ALL. He's not suppose to be the entire team like he was on Buffalo, stealing game after game, as long as hes solid the Sens are perfectly fine. No wrist shots from the blue line going in and its A-ok.

And lets say Hasek does get hurt for hypothetical reasons, look at all the young goalies this year, Emery is no slouch and could easily play solid enough for the Sens to continue on. Although their chances wont be as high with Hasek, still could win.

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Old
11-04-2005, 12:41 PM
  #78
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they put up a 10 spot tonight. havlat and alfredsson both had 4. 21 goals in 3 games. They looked like the hockey equivilant of the harlem globe trotters in some of the games they have played. We were lucky to catch them after wiping the floor with the maple leafs the night before.


These guys are going to skate circles around Primeau, Hatcher, and Therien.
10-4= 6
8-1=7 with several important injurys

IMO the flyers are a deeper team then the Sens, we have 4 good lines and the best player on any given night no matter who we are playing in Forsberg. The Sens might have better skill players in Havlat, Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson, but we have 4 deeper lines. Also our d is much much more proven. They have the best D-man in Chara amongst the 2 teams, and then they have Redden, but who after that? whereas we have Johnsson, Desjardins, Pitkanen, Rathje. The Goaltending is a draw. But i dont feel will be for long.

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Old
11-04-2005, 12:51 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budscweizer16
10-4= 6
8-1=7 with several important injurys
Not that I put much stock in blowouts, but how about 8-0=8 against Toronto? And that was without Havlat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by budscweizer16
They have the best D-man in Chara amongst the 2 teams, and then they have Redden, but who after that?
Team Canada defenceman Chris Phillips? He's pretty good, or so I've heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by budscweizer16
The Goaltending is a draw. But i dont feel will be for long.
So far it has been anything but a draw.

Esche: 2.87 .899
Niittymaki: 4.60 .833

Hasek: 2.08 .928
Emery: 2.96 .906

Maybe Philly will improve.

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Old
11-04-2005, 01:01 PM
  #80
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Philly 5 Ottawa 3 @ Ottawa
maybe Ottawa will improve.

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Old
11-04-2005, 01:03 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
Philly 5 Ottawa 3 @ Ottawa
maybe Ottawa will improve.
Post-season:

Ottawa 2 Philadelphia 0.

Maybe Philadelphia will improve.

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Old
11-04-2005, 01:10 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
Post-season:

Ottawa 2 Philadelphia 0.

Maybe Philadelphia will improve.
bringing up the past. and that is relavant to this season how?

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11-04-2005, 01:15 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
bringing up the past. and that is relavant to this season how?
And how does one game prove anything? It's already in the past.

Anyway, you misconstrued my comment on improving, which was in reference to your goaltending.

To call it a draw so far this season I think is reaching.

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11-04-2005, 01:24 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
And how does one game prove anything? It's already in the past.

Anyway, you misconstrued my comment on improving, which was in reference to your goaltending.

To call it a draw so far this season I think is reaching.
I realize one game doesnt matter, just like our playoff matchups the 2 times we have met dont mean a thing this season. As far as the goaltending goes its still to early to figure out who has the advantage. Lets compare the stats at the olympic break at the very earliest.

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11-04-2005, 01:34 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
As far as the goaltending goes its still to early to figure out who has the advantage. Lets compare the stats at the olympic break at the very earliest.
True enough.

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Old
11-04-2005, 04:35 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico_Persson
Even without Hasek, I'd say Emery could take a shot at Esche. This is Robert Esche we are talking about.
And you'd be wrong. Ray Emery is a solid, young, backup goaltender and at this moment, nothing more. Robert Esche played very well as the starter for a Cup contending team last season, and was excellent for the Flyers in the playoffs, going to within one game of the Stanley Cup finals. He out dueled Martin Brodeur and Ed Belfour along the way, and only lost to the eventual Stanley Cup winners by one goal. On top of that, he's been excellent in International competition for the US, even though the US teams are basically garbage. I would say you know very little about Robert Esche.

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Also, I'm not certain that the addition of Forsberg and Hatcher have completely filled the departure of players lost from the season before. Its a close call. Hatcher is not helping the equation, but Richards and Carter will certainly help fill the void. Rathje is a decent pick-up.
This is utter nonsense.

The Flyers defense is the same or better. Last season, the Flyers' top four was: Johnsson, Desjardins, Markov, Ragnarsson. This season, it's (based on skill level): Johnsson, Desjardins, Pitkanen, Rathje. Johnsson is still Johnsson, so that's a wash, but Desjardins is playing better than he's played in a number of seasons. At this point, I would take Pitkanen over Markov. Yes, Markov is a great physical presence and solid in his own end, but Pitkanen's all around game is better, and he'll likely be the number one defenseman by year's end. Rathje and Ragnarsson are basically a wash. I would say the top-4 is slightly upgraded, the same at worst. The old bottom 2 was: Malakhov, Timander. The new is: Hatcher, Seidenberg. This should be a no brainer; Malakhov was inconsistent and Timander was barely an NHL defenseman. The bottom two is now stronger, and with the top four the same or better, the entire defense is in general, stronger.

Offensively, the proof is in the pudding. The Flyers are leading the NHL in scoring. Guys like Roenick, Amonte, and Recchi were old, oft injured, and their offensive creativity was seriously lacking. At this point, Forsberg and Gagne are on pace for monster seasons, while Knuble looks to be easily replacing Amonte's production, and guys like Sim, Richards, and Handzus are having very solid years on the second like. Add in guys like Carter, Kapanen, Primeau (when they're healthy) Savage, and the Flyers can have three lines capable of scoring. The offense now is much better, and much more creative with the puck, no question about it.

The bottom two is Hatcher and Seidenberg, as compared to the inconsistent Vlad Malakhov and Mattias Timander (not an NHL defenseman). You could make an argument that the top-4 is basically the same, but the bottom-2 is definitely better,

Quote:
Carter will be a Gary Roberts in 6 years. Book it.
What is that supposed to mean?

I suppose you're pointing to Roberts' draft position, 12th overall in 1984. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here, or what that comment was supposed to accomplish, but by all accounts, it failed. Roberts has played over 1,000 career games and has been an important part of multiple winning teams. If Carter plays 17 seasons in the NHL, I'll suppose I'll be pretty happy.

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Old
11-04-2005, 04:49 PM
  #87
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As far as D goes, the Flyers have Hatcher, Ottawa doesn't.

Chalk 1 point up for Ottawa.

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Old
11-04-2005, 04:51 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz
As far as D goes, the Flyers have Hatcher, Ottawa doesn't.

Chalk 1 point up for Ottawa.
Really intelligent analysis here.

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11-04-2005, 05:05 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Really intelligent analysis here.
Have you READ this thread? 90% of the stuff being said makes no sense. Why dont you read what I said in my other two posts, and tell me if its an intelligent analysis or not.
Please do.

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11-04-2005, 05:10 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz
Have you READ this thread? 90% of the stuff being said makes no sense. Why dont you read what I said in my other two posts, and tell me if its an intelligent analysis or not.
Please do.
So why post something that's borderline baiting, on another team's forum?

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Old
11-04-2005, 05:16 PM
  #91
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How is my post different than anyone else's, such as Hasek will go down with a groin injury and predicting the future?

Hatcher hurts the flyers defense, no baiting at all.
And he hurts the Flyers D enough where in a team D comparison, I would take Ottawa's over Philly's.

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Old
11-04-2005, 05:17 PM
  #92
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You can take Ottawa's defense over the Flyers if you like, I have no problem with that, but saying that Hatcher hurts the Flyers defense when he's likely the #5 defenseman going by skill level, is just silly.

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Old
11-04-2005, 05:17 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Honest question about Neil: Where'd he come from? I haven't seen his goals, are they legit? And if they are, has he always been a competent player dressed as a goon, or is this unexpected?
Before this season, I was in the vast minority of Sens fans who felt that Neil was always more than just a 4th line goon. But even I, being one of the most optimistic Neil supporters, didn't see this kind of production coming from him at all.

He's always been one of the hardest workers on the ice. He's got decent package of wheels, size, & strength, but it's his incredible work ethic that's getting him his points. He isn't a very talented guy, but he makes smart plays, and is getting rewarded from them.

All of his goals so far are legit, I'd say. He's just been playing textbook hockey, as all of his goals have been from him either driving to the net to pick up a rebound, shooting when the goalies screened, or parking himself in the crease on the powerplay. Nothing too fancy, but his puckhandling skills are a lot better than I imagined they'd ever be. Last night he practically dangled between two Tampa defenders and got a great chance right in front of Grahame. It something you'd expect to see Marty Havlat do.

I don't see Neil continuing his current pace for the rest of the season (5 goals, 4 assists in 12 games thus far), but assuming he sticks on the powerplay, I see him finishing with around 40-50 points, which is still lightyears ahead of what anyone would have realistically expected from him.

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11-04-2005, 05:22 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
You can take Ottawa's defense over the Flyers if you like, I have no problem with that, but saying that Hatcher hurts the Flyers defense when he's likely the #5 defenseman going by skill level, is just silly.
In skill level he was probably the same on the Red Wings as well, and due to his slowness and laziness, he gave up the GWG to lose the series to the flames when the puck was sitting in the crease and he was just staring at it as Gelinas skated up and put it in.

Sorry I never liked Hatcher and never will.

And if you read my other posts, such as the gameday thread when Philly beat Ottawa I gave Philly credit because he who wins the game deserves it 99% of the time.

What I dont get is why after one game a lot of Philly fans on this thread act like playing Ottawa in a series would be an easy win after one regular season game. I never ONCE thought that, and have posted numerours times if Ottawa plays Philly, its anyones series straight up.

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Old
11-04-2005, 05:23 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
bringing up the past. and that is relavant to this season how?
If everyone is talking about how Ottawa has never beaten Toronto in the past, then how come we can't talk about how Philly has never beaten Ottawa in the past?

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11-04-2005, 05:27 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisher
Before this season, I was in the vast minority of Sens fans who felt that Neil was always more than just a 4th line goon. But even I, being one of the most optimistic Neil supporters, didn't see this kind of production coming from him at all.
I'm with you, but I was a little more optimistic about Neil. From day one I projected him as a poor mans Scott Mellanby. I don't remember getting any support on that one, even from sens fans, but he's turning out alright. Proud to say I probably owned the first Neil jersey in town too.

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11-04-2005, 05:30 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz
In skill level he was probably the same on the Red Wings as well, and due to his slowness and laziness, he gave up the GWG to lose the series to the flames when the puck was sitting in the crease and he was just staring at it as Gelinas skated up and put it in.

Sorry I never liked Hatcher and never will.

And if you read my other posts, such as the gameday thread when Philly beat Ottawa I gave Philly credit because he who wins the game deserves it 99% of the time.

What I dont get is why after one game a lot of Philly fans on this thread act like playing Ottawa in a series would be an easy win after one regular season game. I never ONCE thought that, and have posted numerours times if Ottawa plays Philly, its anyones series straight up.
You couldn't be more off on fan reaction. The problem many here have is that Ottawa fans and many of the posters on HF have expressed that they don't think Ottawa is beatable. Flyers fan, having just seen their team beat Ottawa in their own rink, without many of their key players, seem to disagree with that notion.

I don't really care what you think about Hatcher, he is a necessary part of the Flyers and I personally think he'll be huge come playoff time. He's still adapting a bit and learning what he can and cannot do, but I think his play has been just fine. This league will most definately tighten up and the calls will go down, especially come playoff time. The physical presence that Hatch brings will be very important and add a lot to the Flyers in the playoffs.

I think these are clearly the best two teams in the NHL (I've thought Ottawa was the best team the past 2 seasons) and would make for an epic 7 game series. Myself and i'm sure many other flyers fans get tired of their team being disrespected by Ottawa fans who point to 2 playoff series as there bases for not taking the Flyers seriously. These were series that occured 3 and 4 years ago, and the Flyers have very few players on their team right now that played in those series (fewer then 10).

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11-04-2005, 05:34 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGuy
If everyone is talking about how Ottawa has never beaten Toronto in the past, then how come we can't talk about how Philly has never beaten Ottawa in the past?
Ottawa has never beat Toronto???
and Philly has never beat Ottawa???

news to me..

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Old
11-04-2005, 05:36 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gags1288
You couldn't be more off on fan reaction. The problem many here have is that Ottawa fans and many of the posters on HF have expressed that they don't think Ottawa is beatable. Flyers fan, having just seen their team beat Ottawa in their own rink, without many of their key players, seem to disagree with that notion.
I'm pretty sure most Ottawa fans realize that their team is beatable. It's just a few fans that have gone a little overboard. And most of the fans that are posting about how great the Sens are on these boards aren't even Sens fans. The team obviously has weaknesses and a hot goaltender can always win games, which is how the Sens have lost two games this year.

Quote:
Myself and i'm sure many other flyers fans get tired of their team being disrespected by Ottawa fans who point to 2 playoff series as there bases for not taking the Flyers seriously. These were series that occured 3 and 4 years ago, and the Flyers have very few players on their team right now that played in those series (fewer then 10)
Welcome to the world of a Sens fan. Toronto has beaten us year in a year out and we got out and get some new players and still can't beat them. The fact is, until the Sens beat the Leafs, the Leafs have their number (Same goes with Flyers/Sens).

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11-04-2005, 05:36 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gags1288
You couldn't be more off on fan reaction. The problem many here have is that Ottawa fans and many of the posters on HF have expressed that they don't think Ottawa is beatable. Flyers fan, having just seen their team beat Ottawa in their own rink, without many of their key players, seem to disagree with that notion.

I don't really care what you think about Hatcher, he is a necessary part of the Flyers and I personally think he'll be huge come playoff time. He's still adapting a bit and learning what he can and cannot do, but I think his play has been just fine. This league will most definately tighten up and the calls will go down, especially come playoff time. The physical presence that Hatch brings will be very important and add a lot to the Flyers in the playoffs.

I think these are clearly the best two teams in the NHL (I've thought Ottawa was the best team the past 2 seasons) and would make for an epic 7 game series. Myself and i'm sure many other flyers fans get tired of their team being disrespected by Ottawa fans who point to 2 playoff series as there bases for not taking the Flyers seriously. These were series that occured 3 and 4 years ago, and the Flyers have very few players on their team right now that played in those series (fewer then 10).
See well I would have to then say that I think you're way off on Ottawa fans reaction of the Flyers, from what I've seen at least. I havent seen one Ottawa fan who has dismissed the Flyers from beating the Senators. I probably stated this like 100 times now, but if these teams happen to lock up, its anyones series. And me personally, I don't give a crap about the past 2 series with the Flyers, thats over and done with.

On the Hatcher issue, were going to have to agree to disagree, because I think hes just putrid. If you go off his last playoff performance his grade is easily an F all around. From the Flyers games I watched this year, which have been a good amount, he doesn't seem good at all to me yet. And I really don't think the NHL is going to lighten up on its calls, they seem hellbent on getting it right, and I hope they do because no one wants to see the clutch and grab back in the game.

Maybe I did get Flyer fans reactions all wrong, but that's how I was interpeting it anyway.

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