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Top 20 Re-ranking

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Old
10-08-2003, 08:53 AM
  #1
Guy Flaming
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Top 20 Re-ranking

OK, I re-ranked the top 20 this morning.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team.php?team=10

Then I anticipated that many of you will be calling for my head or somethng so I placed a call to a scout (who will remain nameless for now) and he is going to give me some feedback.

So while the list is changed, it may be changed again in the next couple of days and will then be accompanied by a detailed explanation article on the main page.

in the meantime, I'll take your comments into consideration (although I'll take the scout's opinion just a little higher, lol). I may also try to contact Kevin Prendergast about this too if I see him on the catwalk at Thursday's game.

GuyF

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Old
10-08-2003, 10:57 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyF
Then I anticipated that many of you will be calling for my head or somethng so I placed a call to a scout (who will remain nameless for now) and he is going to give me some feedback.
i shant call for any heads. And I'm not entirely sure what the list ranks on, if it's closeness to the NHL or just overall goodness. But I have some comments on the college guys:

Brad Winchester was a flat bust at Wisconsin on and off the ice. He never developed in four years and I don't see him doing so in the future. There was a story last year that Oilers scouts watched the Wisconsin-Michigan game last year and came away more impressed with Helminen than Winchester.

Size knocks Dwight down a peg, I know, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that he plays more NHL games than Winchester.

on Radunske: it appears that MSU is going to be leaning on him heavily for their top line. I think he's probably a better prospect than Winchester at this point, too. Also, I believe he's a RW and not a center.

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10-08-2003, 11:28 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyF
OK, I re-ranked the top 20 this morning.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team.php?team=10

Then I anticipated that many of you will be calling for my head or somethng so I placed a call to a scout (who will remain nameless for now) and he is going to give me some feedback.

So while the list is changed, it may be changed again in the next couple of days and will then be accompanied by a detailed explanation article on the main page.

in the meantime, I'll take your comments into consideration (although I'll take the scout's opinion just a little higher, lol). I may also try to contact Kevin Prendergast about this too if I see him on the catwalk at Thursday's game.

GuyF
A much better list than last year!! Kudos!

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Old
10-08-2003, 01:54 PM
  #4
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Good list, I have couple of questions?

1. Brodziak moving to 15th ahead of Jacques and Baum. Is that based on his start in WHL or his training camp. Also did anyone in the Oilers staff mentioned how how he look.

2. Radunske look like he had improved alot last year or are his stats misleading?


Thanks

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Old
10-08-2003, 02:00 PM
  #5
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Guy, before I comment on the list...what criteria are you basing the rankings on?

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Old
10-08-2003, 05:59 PM
  #6
Guy Flaming
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The criteria is set out by HF and can easily be read. It's an out of 10 scale based on a player's projected peak potential.

NOT his probability of making the NHL, NOT his probable NHL career length...

I know we've been through this and over it a hundred times and it is not an exact science. It's educated guessing. And I didn't do it alone.

The Oiler scout responded to me tonight with his suggested adjustments (of which there were only two or three! good on me i thik!). Tomorrow I am planning on mentioning this to Kevin Prendergast, maybe take a copy with me and just get his initial reaction. I will have the final FINAL results up by the weekend with an explanation article around the same time.

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Old
10-08-2003, 06:17 PM
  #7
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Good list Guy, I hope you're right about about JDD being the #1. It would be nice to have a top notch goalie locked up.


Top 3 guys I'd be tempted to move up:

Platt (based on opinions of friars fans here at hf, any Oilfans seen this guy play?)
Lynch (seen him play myself, very broad skillset)
Johansson (had a great junior season last year, hoping he does well in the sel this year)

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10-08-2003, 09:09 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
Top 3 guys I'd be tempted to move up:

Platt (based on opinions of friars fans here at hf, any Oilfans seen this guy play?)
Lynch (seen him play myself, very broad skillset)
Johansson (had a great junior season last year, hoping he does well in the sel this year)
The scout agrees with you on one of those guys you mention. I think you'll notice in the final ranking who I mean.

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Old
10-08-2003, 09:16 PM
  #9
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Guy, does it look like Winchester is making progress in the organization or is he going backwards? Will he have a shot at the second line center spot in the AHL?

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Old
10-10-2003, 12:26 AM
  #10
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I was able to get some brief comments from Prendergast on the list. Basically... move this guy higher, drop him from the list for now and replace him with this guy... like that.

There will be some surprises but at least you will know that these are the organizations thoughts and not just mine.

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Old
10-10-2003, 05:26 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyF
I was able to get some brief comments from Prendergast on the list. Basically... move this guy higher, drop him from the list for now and replace him with this guy... like that.

There will be some surprises but at least you will know that these are the organizations thoughts and not just mine.
Based on your prior articles Guy I'd expect to perhaps see a guy like Koltsov on the list, and personally I think they'll have N
Mikhnov much higher, top 3 perhaps?

And of course, Niinimaki should probably drop at least a couple spots with this bad injury. There's always the chance with this kind of thing that he never comes back quite the same, and even if he fully recovers, he loses a valuable developmental year.

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Old
10-10-2003, 09:10 AM
  #12
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Suprise

I am really suprised with this ranking. I am suprised that Brodziak is in there. He is an older junior playing with good players. I am suprised not to see at lest one of Radunske, Helminen,Ollson, Johannson or Umicevic in there. Are Allen and Sarno (drafted 6 yearsnot to old to be considered prospects. I do not consider them prospects at all. I am also suprised that Svensk is higher than Koltsov. Winchester is higher than I expected as well.

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Old
10-10-2003, 09:16 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspin
I am really suprised with this ranking. I am suprised that Brodziak is in there. He is an older junior playing with good players. I am suprised not to see at lest one of Radunske, Helminen,Ollson, Johannson or Umicevic in there. Are Allen and Sarno (drafted 6 yearsnot to old to be considered prospects. I do not consider them prospects at all. I am also suprised that Svensk is higher than Koltsov. Winchester is higher than I expected as well.
it's not done yet aspin, and you'll see a few changes more in line with what you said. Allen (College player) and Sarno (23) are still prospects but one of the two will not be in the top 20 when the list is finalized.

Brodziak had a decent camp and is tearing up the WHL right now. I've been told that he's highly thought of. Put it this way, I;ve shown the list, as is, to two of the Oilers scouting staff and neither mentioned his positioning as out of line.

I'm not doing this one on my own this time. I'm getting back up from the team.

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Old
10-10-2003, 09:42 AM
  #14
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yeah

I'm not doing this one on my own this time. I'm getting back up from the team


I understand but I was just saying that I was suprised.

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Old
10-10-2003, 11:20 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspin
I'm not doing this one on my own this time. I'm getting back up from the team


I understand but I was just saying that I was suprised.

I hear ya. The scout (who I will name in the article) just sent me his top 20 list and I was stunned with some of the names that made it. And since he's the professional, who am I to say he's wrong right?

Besides, he's bigger than me and if you've seen me... that's something.

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10-10-2003, 01:05 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyF
And since he's the professional, who am I to say he's wrong right?
Certainly he's a pro, but he's not perfect either, I'm sure, else the team would be full of Hemskys.

It's ok to disagree with pros, just you'd better have all your ducks in a row - there's such a thing as taking respect too far.

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Old
10-10-2003, 01:22 PM
  #17
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I'm excited about the new list, to be honest. For many years now, Baseball America has done a top 10 prospects per team profile, and alot of the info comes from scouts. imo, that's a great place to go when doing a list of this type. If the scout hasnt seen all the prospects, he's seen the scouting reports.

If we take Matt Greene and Brock Radunske as examples, these are players drafted fairly high by the Oilers, but whose exposure is limited. We certainly know more about Jani Rita, or even Dan Baum or MA Pouliot. What about Kolstov, or Fredrik Johansson?

Matt Greene is big AND has foot speed. But his points totals don't indicate anything overwhelming, so it's hard to slot him in. Kenny Smith is kind of the same way, although he really stepped up last season at Harvard (good offensive numbers, was named captain). Dwight Helminen is a terrific prospect who scored a few sh goals last season.

But who is the organization really excited about? I can't wait for this list.

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Old
10-10-2003, 01:57 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I'm excited about the new list, to be honest. For many years now, Baseball America has done a top 10 prospects per team profile, and alot of the info comes from scouts. imo, that's a great place to go when doing a list of this type. If the scout hasnt seen all the prospects, he's seen the scouting reports.

If we take Matt Greene and Brock Radunske as examples, these are players drafted fairly high by the Oilers, but whose exposure is limited. We certainly know more about Jani Rita, or even Dan Baum or MA Pouliot. What about Kolstov, or Fredrik Johansson?

Matt Greene is big AND has foot speed. But his points totals don't indicate anything overwhelming, so it's hard to slot him in. Kenny Smith is kind of the same way, although he really stepped up last season at Harvard (good offensive numbers, was named captain). Dwight Helminen is a terrific prospect who scored a few sh goals last season.

But who is the organization really excited about? I can't wait for this list.

I agree, it will be awesome to read a list given input by someone who has seen everyone on that list. Even though every scout will obviously have his personal favorites, this will give us a better look at how the Oil's management sees these guys.

BTW, Guy mentioned the scout was bigger than him.... Dave Semenko???????

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Old
10-10-2003, 02:29 PM
  #19
aspin
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Ha ha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
I agree, it will be awesome to read a list given input by someone who has seen everyone on that list. Even though every scout will obviously have his personal favorites, this will give us a better look at how the Oil's management sees these guys.

BTW, Guy mentioned the scout was bigger than him.... Dave Semenko???????

Yeah I was thinking the same thing.

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Old
10-10-2003, 08:09 PM
  #20
Guy Flaming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
BTW, Guy mentioned the scout was bigger than him.... Dave Semenko???????

No. Semenko said No to helping me out. So far K.P. and one other scout have chimed in and I have Frank Musil's email address so I could contact him too, but likely not just for this.

By the way, Semenko said no because he's an NHL scout... he says he doesn't scout the junior or college teams. Not sure if that's true or not but... it's Semenko, what am I gonna do... argue????

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Old
10-10-2003, 08:14 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by GuyF
By the way, Semenko said no because he's an NHL scout... he says he doesn't scout the junior or college teams. Not sure if that's true or not but... it's Semenko, what am I gonna do... argue????
Sure, he'd probably be ok with that.

Just don't argue with Wayne.

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Old
10-11-2003, 09:58 AM
  #22
Guy Flaming
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Talked at length with the Oiler scout this morning... it will take some time to transcribe (I also have a ton of leaves to tackle today) but then I will complete the list and submit the article to Holly to post, hopefully early in the week.

Lots of great input from the scout. And some of the names that make the list might be suprises to some of you but at least now I've got some reasons why the player makes it or not.

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