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Joni Pitkanen on Fire?

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Old
11-09-2005, 01:31 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
What's so funny about Rathje? He's a pure "defender"... Not like Joni that is more of a forward, wich will make more errors... Is it that hard to understand?
yeah, that +16 is really bothering me too.

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11-09-2005, 01:53 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by edd1e
yeah, that +16 is really bothering me too.
Being paired with Rathje has nothing to do with that...

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11-09-2005, 05:01 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
What's so funny about Rathje? He's a pure "defender"... Not like Joni that is more of a forward, wich will make more errors... Is it that hard to understand?
Pitkanen is better in his own zone than Rathje is. No doubt about it.

Rathje can only do so much with the skill set he has, whereas Pitkanen can defend against just about anyone.

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11-09-2005, 05:26 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Brad
Pitkanen is better in his own zone than Rathje is. No doubt about it.

Rathje can only do so much with the skill set he has, whereas Pitkanen can defend against just about anyone.
Yeah he showed that last night... Thornton anyone?

Joni is good offensively, but saying that he's better than Rathje defensively...?

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11-09-2005, 05:28 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Pitkanen is better in his own zone than Rathje is. No doubt about it.

Rathje can only do so much with the skill set he has, whereas Pitkanen can defend against just about anyone.
I have not been terribly impressed with Rathje so far. He started out well, better than the rest of the D, but hasn't improved it seems. To be honest tho, most of the time I'm watching Pitty when Rathje is on the ice

Right now I think I'd rather have Markov at 2mil and change rather than rathje at 3.5mil. But its early.

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11-09-2005, 05:48 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
Yeah he showed that last night... Thornton anyone?

Joni is good offensively, but saying that he's better than Rathje defensively...?
And how about Rathje allowing anything and everything to get around him in the game against Carolina?

Pitkanen is much more mobile, has good stick work, and just seems to be a smarter hockey player. He's better in the defensive zone that Rathje is, because he do many more things. Rathje is basically meat and potatoes. Play conservative, try and force the forward outside along the boards, and that's about it. Pitkanen can skate with the forwards, won't get burnt by speed, and plays just as physical as Rathje. For being 6'5", Rathje is not all that physical in the corners.

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11-09-2005, 05:57 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
Yeah he showed that last night... Thornton anyone?
He was asked (like always when trailing) to create offense. To bring the puck up, and also try to score or create plays. That way he will sometimes make mistakes, but what he was doing in the 3rd period is something you could NEVER ask a Rathje type player to do. You could ask, but you'd be an idiot doing so. The amount of puck carrying he did, one giveaway on neutral zone is not something I'd hang him for. I am pretty sure everyone here is happy he continued to do so despite the Thornton goal. Last 3 philly goals, Joni was the key. If he would have been scared to do anything, tried to play it safe, the game would have probably ended 2-1 for bruins (or 3-1 on an empty netter).

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11-09-2005, 11:44 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
And how about Rathje allowing anything and everything to get around him in the game against Carolina?

Pitkanen is much more mobile, has good stick work, and just seems to be a smarter hockey player. He's better in the defensive zone that Rathje is, because he do many more things. Rathje is basically meat and potatoes. Play conservative, try and force the forward outside along the boards, and that's about it. Pitkanen can skate with the forwards, won't get burnt by speed, and plays just as physical as Rathje. For being 6'5", Rathje is not all that physical in the corners.
Rathje had a rough night against Carolina (as did Pitkanen against the Rangers opening night), but overall has been very solid. I really don't see how anyone can be particularly critical of either's play this season. Obviously it's a little nutty to argue that Rathje is/has been better than Joni, but Rathje has been what we expected: good, but not flashy, in his own end and chipping in a little here and there offensively.

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11-09-2005, 11:57 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad
He was asked (like always when trailing) to create offense. To bring the puck up, and also try to score or create plays. That way he will sometimes make mistakes, but what he was doing in the 3rd period is something you could NEVER ask a Rathje type player to do. You could ask, but you'd be an idiot doing so. The amount of puck carrying he did, one giveaway on neutral zone is not something I'd hang him for. I am pretty sure everyone here is happy he continued to do so despite the Thornton goal. Last 3 philly goals, Joni was the key. If he would have been scared to do anything, tried to play it safe, the game would have probably ended 2-1 for bruins (or 3-1 on an empty netter).
Yes, this is the important point. Pitkanen will probably always make more "mistakes" than Rathje (getting caught deep in the offensive zone, or getting the puck stolen in the neutral zone) because he is a puck carrying defenseman who is asked to create offense. It's not fair to focus on Rathje making fewer mistakes than Pitkanen because to do so is to ignore the great amount of offense than Pitkanen adds over Rathje. You have to look at their games as a whole - own zone, neutral zone and offensive zone - and I think that overall, Pitkanen gives you a lot more than Rathje. I like Rathje but he has his limitations.

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11-10-2005, 12:00 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
Yeah he showed that last night... Thornton anyone?

Joni is good offensively, but saying that he's better than Rathje defensively...?
And would you be commenting like this if Joni was Swedish? You're in danger of looking like a buddy of starshollow, the Swedish version of an outrageous homer ala wilka.

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11-10-2005, 12:14 AM
  #36
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I hate you guys with Pitkanen, Carter and Richards!!!



what about a trade... Kostitsyn for Carter !!!



when i saw pitkanen play for the first time, i was amaze on how well he looked and how flawlessly he moves on the ice.. this guy is a sure star.. already is or really close too.. again, i hate you guys!!!

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11-10-2005, 02:09 AM
  #37
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I still cannot believe this is the same guy who many Phantoms fans i talked to last year at the AHL allstar game were so upset with. Unreal. he made that mistake that lead to the Thornton goal and then he took over. Im sure glad i picked up that ahl allstar warm up jersey of his at a online auction.

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11-10-2005, 03:40 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boucicaut
And would you be commenting like this if Joni was Swedish? You're in danger of looking like a buddy of starshollow, the Swedish version of an outrageous homer ala wilka.
Didn't know that Rathje was a Swede...?

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11-10-2005, 04:43 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
Didn't know that Rathje was a Swede...?
I thought it was pretty obvious what the point was, but I'll spell it out for you: his modus operandi is to put down Finnish players always when possible, regardless of who they are being compared with, Swede or not. Pretty sad really.

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11-10-2005, 04:51 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boucicaut
I thought it was pretty obvious what the point was, but I'll spell it out for you: his modus operandi is to put down Finnish players always when possible, regardless of who they are being compared with, Swede or not. Pretty sad really.
I can see where he is coming from. Nagano, Salt lake, World cup....and Finland is only getting stronger with young stars like Pitkänen, Lehtonen, Ruutu, J. Jokinen, M. Koivu, Toivonen, while Sweden is still waiting for Sedins to blossom.

Fear of the future make people act a bit silly



In all fairness, Swedes have had their share of the best d-man in the world and the best center in the world for some time now. It's about time to pass the torch, at least on the defense department.

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11-10-2005, 09:18 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boucicaut
I thought it was pretty obvious what the point was, but I'll spell it out for you: his modus operandi is to put down Finnish players always when possible, regardless of who they are being compared with, Swede or not. Pretty sad really.
looks who is talking. Didn't you talk smack Forsberg in the main thread yesterday? hypocrite.

let me say that i have nothing a gainst the great finnish players. selanne, kurri, tikkanen etc.

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11-10-2005, 09:52 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SectionX
looks who is talking. Didn't you talk smack Forsberg in the main thread yesterday? hypocrite.

let me say that i have nothing a gainst the great finnish players. selanne, kurri, tikkanen etc.
Please check out the Forsberg thread you mention, and see my response to your comment there. I don't think this criticism is warranted.

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11-10-2005, 10:12 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boucicaut
I thought it was pretty obvious what the point was, but I'll spell it out for you: his modus operandi is to put down Finnish players always when possible, regardless of who they are being compared with, Swede or not. Pretty sad really.
You're joking right? What does me prefering a pure defender over an offensive defender have to do with their nationality...? Hell, my favorite goalie is Kipper!

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11-10-2005, 11:13 AM
  #44
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Canada sucks.

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11-10-2005, 11:41 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
You're joking right? What does me prefering a pure defender over an offensive defender have to do with their nationality...? Hell, my favorite goalie is Kipper!
He was talking about starshollow, not you.

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Old
11-10-2005, 05:28 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad
He was talking about starshollow, not you.
He should stop quoting me then...

Anyhow, I looked up some stats wich will silence some people... Pitkanen leads Flyers with 13 giveaways, Rathje got 2... Not hating Joni for that, but it's kinda obvious that Rathje is doing the better job at defence...

stats

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11-10-2005, 05:34 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
He should stop quoting me then...

Anyhow, I looked up some stats wich will silence some people... Pitkanen leads Flyers with 13 giveaways, Rathje got 2... Not hating Joni for that, but it's kinda obvious that Rathje is doing the better job at defence...

stats

Well, to be honest, your lack of watching Joni play is showing right there.

Yes, he has more TO's. And too be honest, too many IMO. But those TO's have zero to do with defense. Joni is asked to, and often does, carry the puck up ice instead of passing and dumping. Rathje isn't. Joni has control of the puck much much much more then Rathje.

Also Joni has the wheels and uses them to break up plays Rathje can't. It's not like that doesn't count as defense. Hustling across ice and breaking up a breakaway or 2 on 1 matters a lot. And he's done that quite often.

So this was a case where you using a single stat to support an arguement that tons of variables wasn't really the best idea.

IMO Rathje is much more funadamentally sound then Pitkanen, but currently Pitkanen makes up for it with speed and hustle so that it's pretty much a wash.

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11-10-2005, 05:39 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Well, to be honest, your lack of watching Joni play is showing right there.

Yes, he has more TO's. And too be honest, too many IMO. But those TO's have zero to do with defense. Joni is asked to, and often does, carry the puck up ice instead of passing and dumping. Rathje isn't. Joni has control of the puck much much much more then Rathje.

Also Joni has the wheels and uses them to break up plays Rathje can't. It's not like that doesn't count as defense. Hustling across ice and breaking up a breakaway or 2 on 1 matters a lot. And he's done that quite often.

So this was a case where you using a single stat to support an arguement that tons of variables wasn't really the best idea.

IMO Rathje is much more funadamentally sound then Pitkanen, but currently Pitkanen makes up for it with speed and hustle so that it's pretty much a wash.
I've seen him play, that's why this whole discussion started. Cause I preferd Rathjes defensive type of play, more than Pitkanens offensive type of play...

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11-10-2005, 05:42 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho
I've seen him play, that's why this whole discussion started. Cause I preferd Rathjes defensive type of play, more than Pitkanens offensive type of play...
Well then you shouldn't have tried to use giveaways as if the single stat could be used to make an obvious determination as to who is playing better defense.

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11-10-2005, 05:54 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Well then you shouldn't have tried to use giveaways as if the single stat could be used to make an obvious determination as to who is playing better defense.
Just to prove a point to my previous post in this thread. That Pitkanen playing as he does, will make more errors. But luckily Rathje is there to fix it, most of the times...

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