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Marc-Andre Fleury makes 46 saves on 48 shots in first NHL game

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Old
10-10-2003, 09:37 PM
  #26
tom_servo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
My answer is yes. I am against 18 year-olds playing in the NHL. Period. They are not mentally mature enough to handle the pressure.....especially the pressure of being a goaltender in the NHL.

The draft age should be 20.
See, that's the fallacy of your generalization. If he's carrying those kinds of stats behind this team, then he is handling it. There would be little room for debate.

Read just a little bit about Fleury, and you'll learn that he's of the opposite mindset... not the ten-year old in an 18-year-old's body like DiPietro sometimes seems to be. He's mentally tough.

Like the rational people that we are, we'll see for ourselves whether he can handle it or not. You don't seem to allow for the very real possibility than he can.

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10-10-2003, 09:42 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_servo
See, that's the fallacy of your generalization. Read just a little bit about Fleury, and you'll learn that he's of the opposite mindset... not the ten-year old in an 18-year-old's body like DiPietro sometimes seems to be. He's mentally tough.

Like the rational people that we are, we'll see for ourselves whether he can handle it or not. You don't seem to allow for the very real possibility than he can.
No I don't. I do not believe Fleury can handle being a starting goaltender in this league at 18 years of age. He should be living the life of a normal 18 year-old....partying with friends, having fun with girls, etc. High calibre junior hockey doesn't take that away like the NHL does.

He may be on a mental high now after signing a million dollar contract and having a great first night in the show.....but I am willing to bet money that he will tail off big time if he keeps facing 40+ shots per game...which all indications in Pittsburgh would point to having happen.

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Old
10-10-2003, 09:45 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
No I don't. I do not believe Fleury can handle being a starting goaltender in this league at 18 years of age. He should be living the life of a normal 18 year-old....partying with friends, having fun with girls, etc. High calibre junior hockey doesn't take that away like the NHL does.

He may be on a mental high now after signing a million dollar contract and having a great first night in the show.....but I am willing to bet money that he will tail off big time if he keeps facing 40+ shots per game...which all indications in Pittsburgh would point to having happen.
Well, Van, since you've already said that you'd send him down no matter what the consequences may be, I don't know what more I could say or what more Fleury could do. You've got your mind made up.

Judging by the post prior to this one, you would've sent Barrasso back down in '84.

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10-10-2003, 09:48 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
He should be living the life of a normal 18 year-old....partying with friends, having fun with girls, etc. High calibre junior hockey doesn't take that away like the NHL does.
So you would use the same arguments with Dustin Brown, Nathan Horton, and Eric Staal?

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10-10-2003, 09:48 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_servo
Judging by the post prior to this one, you would've sent Barrasso back down in '84.
Yup. And if I had it my way, Rick Nash would have been playing junior last year as well.

Actually, correct that....if I had it my way, Rick Nash wouldn't even be drafted until next summer.

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10-10-2003, 09:51 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jacobv2
So you would use the same arguments with Dustin Brown, Nathan Horton, and Eric Staal?
What part of "I don't think any 18 year-old should play in the NHL" is so hard to understand?

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Old
10-10-2003, 09:52 PM
  #32
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I understand your point about the extra-curricular stuff for an 18-year-old, but what's one year? So he's in the professional ranks at 18 instead of 19... if he's capable, I don't see a difference (...if he were eligible for minor league play, I don't think we'd be having this discussion).

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10-10-2003, 09:52 PM
  #33
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since i dont really have a side on the issue, i'll just say this, fleury really is good enough to play 40-60 games this year. from wt i saw today, the kid has a solid head, can bounce back from bad goals and is quick as a fox. by far, one of the best "franchise players" i've seen in a while.

BUT, as Van said, goalies that have such high potential and are kept in the NHL rather then sent badck to juniors when they are young, tend to develop into flops. he may be good enough to start 40 games in the NHL, but juniors may end up being the best route for him. goalies tend to take longer to develop then players, if u take this away from him, he may become stagnate in growth...

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Old
10-10-2003, 09:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
What part of "I don't think any 18 year-old should play in the NHL" is so hard to understand?
The part where there no exceptions.

Playing in the NHL at 18 is not a new thing, you know. Countless players have pulled it off.

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10-10-2003, 10:56 PM
  #35
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How about Mario...
Such a shame he started at 18... such a miserable career afterwards... same with Barrasso and countless others...
Very stupid argument...
How can he not be ready if he keeps this up?

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Old
10-10-2003, 11:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
How about Mario...
Such a shame he started at 18... such a miserable career afterwards... same with Barrasso and countless others...
Very stupid argument...
How can he not be ready if he keeps this up?
Because he won't keep it up...especially if he keeps facing 40+ shots per game. He will break.

18 year-olds need to live an 18 year-old's life....not a professional NHL career life.

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10-11-2003, 01:02 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Because he won't keep it up...especially if he keeps facing 40+ shots per game. He will break.

18 year-olds need to live an 18 year-old's life....not a professional NHL career life.
who are you to say what 18 year-olds need?

each man's pace varies buddy.

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10-11-2003, 01:14 AM
  #38
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The problem now is that Fleury has nowhere to go but down. If the Pens keep him up for the whole year, they are probably making a mistake.

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Old
10-11-2003, 01:23 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps
who are you to say what 18 year-olds need?

each man's pace varies buddy.
I agree but I disagree.

Fleury just graduated from high school. He should be living it up with his friends and enjoying himself.....not living the life of a multi-million dollar pro athlete. As fun as it may be for him tonight, like Epsilon said, he has nowhere to go but down.

Mentally, I don't believe an 18 year-old can handle the pressure of being a premier NHL goaltender.

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Old
10-11-2003, 01:52 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Because he won't keep it up...especially if he keeps facing 40+ shots per game. He will break.

18 year-olds need to live an 18 year-old's life....not a professional NHL career life.
You are making generalizations. Most 18 year olds who are skilled won't play in the NHL because they are not deemed ready. A few each year get the chance. And teams are much more careful these days with youngsters because they know it could hurt the player in the long run if they are not ready. But some are. There is nothing to suggest that Rick Nash development as a player or as a person was hurt by him playing last year.

As for the last point. They won't have a "normal" 18 year old life in juniors either. Their whole life will be focused on them playing hockey anyway. It seems you want them to be something they aren't, just because you would feel better about it.

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10-11-2003, 01:58 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
As for the last point. They won't have a "normal" 18 year old life in juniors either. Their whole life will be focused on them playing hockey anyway. It seems you want them to be something they aren't, just because you would feel better about it.
Don't put words into my mouth.

The life of a teen playing junior hockey is still a normal life away from the rink. Junior players go out partying...get drunk...have fun with girls...attend classes...hang out at the mall, etc.

Trust me. I know some junior players personally. Junior hockey life is not 110% hockey like it is in the NHL.

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10-11-2003, 02:33 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
The problem now is that Fleury has nowhere to go but down. If the Pens keep him up for the whole year, they are probably making a mistake.
Or you could say the team has nowhere to go but up...
Different perspectives, different outcomes.
I say we let him play a little to see if he keeps it up.
If he is, keep him.
If he doesn't, send him to juniors.
In fact it's what most Pens fans have said for a long time.

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10-11-2003, 02:44 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Don't put words into my mouth.

The life of a teen playing junior hockey is still a normal life away from the rink. Junior players go out partying...get drunk...have fun with girls...attend classes...hang out at the mall, etc.

Trust me. I know some junior players personally. Junior hockey life is not 110% hockey like it is in the NHL.
lol Not pnly do you avoid the subject all together by thrusting fluery into a generalization, but you're arguement is ignorant and politically incorrect..

"Trust me" hahaha

A shadowed view of the world. There are young men who have to make a living, you know. One of Fluery's qualities is 'he rises to the occasion' or he comes to play. Besides, the pens are projected to finish last, how much pressure can there be? A good bit? Probably not.

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Old
10-11-2003, 05:10 AM
  #44
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Jeez louize. What ever happend to letting the skill level decide where the kid plays??? I mean Fleury did stop 46 of 48 shots!!! Whens the last time Marty Turco did that? You know?

I say let Fleurys play on the ice dictate where he goes. He seems to be able to handle the NHL. He's very poised, athletic, quick, Smart. He deserves to be in Pittsburg untill he proves otherwise.

I think Fleury is very mature for an 18 year old compared to what D'pietro and Blackburn where at the time.

Mabey Fleury is really just to good for the QMJHL and devoloping in the NHL is whats best for him.

It's not like this is his first great showing in the NHL. He been doing it all pre season. He has a great head on his shoulders. HE DOES NOT GET RATTLED much at all. I say let the play on the ice dictate where he goes.

I think most of the FLeury nay sayers on here are Thrasher fans who feal a bit jealous to see Fleury getting the attention over a certain other young goalie in there system.

HIYOOOO

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Old
10-11-2003, 05:20 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-SHARKIE
I think most of the FLeury nay sayers on here are Thrasher fans who feal a bit jealous to see Fleury getting the attention over a certain other young goalie in there system.

That's gotta be it.

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10-11-2003, 05:54 AM
  #46
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Well I am a Penguins fan and I think that if he shows any signs of breaking before the 10 game limit, then Craig Patrick should send him down.

In my opinion, when you look at whether to keep Fleury up you don't only have to look at the mentality aspect of it, but you also have to look at the financial aspect.

If Fleury stays up the whole season and plays 40 + games, he will most likely achieve most if not all of the bonuses in his contract. This means he could make 4 million during this year. I don't think the Penguins would be able to spend 12-13 million on just three players alone. So the likely scenerio would be to trade Straka.

Fleury may or may not be ready for the NHL this year. But I doubt we will be able to tell this just by one performance, now matter how outstanding of a performance it was. I don't think any goaltender in the NHL would be able to stop 40 shots per night and not go insane.

Remember that just last year Fleury was living with his family during the season. If Fleury is playing on Pittsburgh he will have to stay in Pittsburgh during the season and go on road trips. That might not be the easiest thing for an 18 year old to do and still play in the high paced game of the NHL. Something will have to give...

But I'm still wishing, or rather hoping, that Fleury will prove me wrong and have a calder year and post numbers that will make Brodeur look like peewee hockey goaltender.

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10-11-2003, 06:17 AM
  #47
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I dont think Mario forced Fleury to sign contract, so whats the point on this discussion? If he had wanted, Fleury could have stayed in the Q and went on partying, drinking and having girls (im sure he never did anything else there, although I heard a rumor he was seen on a rink from time to time )
It was Fleurys decision to sign an NHL contract and Im sure he knows better what he needs than any users on this board...

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10-11-2003, 06:50 AM
  #48
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Is Fleury the next Roy?

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10-11-2003, 07:21 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksheit
Is Fleury the next Roy?
I think he's the closest thing to being the next Roy, but we will only see it in the big games and the playoffs.

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Old
10-11-2003, 07:41 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Van
I agree but I disagree.

Fleury just graduated from high school. He should be living it up with his friends and enjoying himself.....not living the life of a multi-million dollar pro athlete. As fun as it may be for him tonight, like Epsilon said, he has nowhere to go but down.

Mentally, I don't believe an 18 year-old can handle the pressure of being a premier NHL goaltender.
Not sure about you, but when I was 18 I was much more capable of focusing and learning than I am now. If Fleury can play with the big boys at this age, he will learn much faster, and much better. He seems to love the game enough to focus on that and save social distractions for the off-season. The kid's a competitor.

S L

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