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New York Islanders / Florida Proposal

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Old
11-07-2005, 03:32 PM
  #1
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New York Islanders / Florida Proposal

to NYI: Niklas Hagman

to FLA: Brent Sopel

*NYI gains a younger player and reduces salary. Hag's is pure speed and energy; heck, he may become somewhat of an offensive producer if he ever gets out of south florida. Nik is also a LW, which NYI seems to be in short supply of.

*FLA gains a legit top 4 dman who has offensive capabilities, yet can man his own end. Not an old-timer, either.

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11-07-2005, 03:35 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_made
to NYI: Niklas Hagman

to FLA: Brent Sopel

*NYI gains a younger player and reduces salary. Hag's is pure speed and energy; heck, he may become somewhat of an offensive producer if he ever gets out of south florida. Nik is also a LW, which NYI seems to be in short supply of.

*FLA gains a legit top 4 dman who has offensive capabilities, yet can man his own end. Not an old-timer, either.
Forget about value.

It can't happen. Sopel is playing as, essentially, a #2 or #3 right now on the Isle's D. That, right there, is commentary on the state of things. Isles will trade for defense if they can, they will not trade it away.

Any team that needs D back in a trade is no fit for the Isles.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-07-2005, 04:07 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_made
to NYI: Niklas Hagman

to FLA: Brent Sopel

*NYI gains a younger player and reduces salary. Hag's is pure speed and energy; heck, he may become somewhat of an offensive producer if he ever gets out of south florida. Nik is also a LW, which NYI seems to be in short supply of.

*FLA gains a legit top 4 dman who has offensive capabilities, yet can man his own end. Not an old-timer, either.
I agree with Dan-016.

Isles have tons of wingers like Hagman: Weinhandl, Nokie, Bates, etc. They have no need whatsoever for a a player of that nature.

On the other hand, they are desperately short on NHL quality dman. And, Sopel, as limited a player that he is, is a guy we just can't afford to move.

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11-07-2005, 04:40 PM
  #4
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Terrible proposal -- Isles are full of players like Hagman and Sopel has been their second best defensman behind Zhitnik.

A possible NYI-FLA deal I was thinking about.....

How about Sean Hill + a prospect or draft pick for Niinimaa? Both guys are struggling horribly with their teams....but Hill brings a physical/borderline dirty presence that the Isles sorely lack. Niinimaa on the other hand is a guy that can help create some offense with his outlet passes...something the Panthers sorely lack aside from Krajicek. Hill is alot older, but the Isles save a little over a million in cap space with this move.

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11-07-2005, 04:52 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKF37
Terrible proposal -- Isles are full of players like Hagman and Sopel has been their second best defensman behind Zhitnik.

A possible NYI-FLA deal I was thinking about.....

How about Sean Hill + a prospect or draft pick for Niinimaa? Both guys are struggling horribly with their teams....but Hill brings a physical/borderline dirty presence that the Isles sorely lack. Niinimaa on the other hand is a guy that can help create some offense with his outlet passes...something the Panthers sorely lack aside from Krajicek. Hill is alot older, but the Isles save a little over a million in cap space with this move.
Not to be rude, but I get a little tired of these "how about some junk and a pick for Janne N because Janne N is struggling" posts. Janne N has been up and down, but he has not been nearly as bad as has been suggested on this board. The Isles paid a stiff price to get him, and he is signed to an affordable long-term deal. They're not throwing him away for this kind of return.

In all honesty, I think the original poster's proposal was more doable. I'd rather give Sopel away for a winger, and move in Bruno Gervis to take his place, then move Janne N for a bottom pairing dman.

As for Hill: keep him. I wouldn't give you anything for him. Not picks. Not prospects. Not salary dumps. He is not a top five dman in today's NHL, and I wouldn't want him on my team.

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11-07-2005, 05:05 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKF37
Terrible proposal -- Isles are full of players like Hagman and Sopel has been their second best defensman behind Zhitnik.

A possible NYI-FLA deal I was thinking about.....

How about Sean Hill + a prospect or draft pick for Niinimaa? Both guys are struggling horribly with their teams....but Hill brings a physical/borderline dirty presence that the Isles sorely lack. Niinimaa on the other hand is a guy that can help create some offense with his outlet passes...something the Panthers sorely lack aside from Krajicek. Hill is alot older, but the Isles save a little over a million in cap space with this move.
pass.For about the 10th time...the isles want to upgrade defensively and they aren't looking to dump salary.

I think it's interesting that since Garroich wrote his Niinimaa's being shopped rumor,that not 1 of the 4 major NY newspapers or three 24 all-sports radio radio stations, have mentioned Niinimaa being shopped.

There also haven't been any rumors from out of town newspapers, about their local team scouting Niinimaa.Shouldn't there be something aside from Garroich's rumor?

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11-07-2005, 05:16 PM
  #7
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You can tell from the edgy tone today of my esteemed NYI brethren that things aren't going too well currently in Islander Land!


Last edited by Trottier: 11-07-2005 at 05:34 PM.
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11-07-2005, 05:24 PM
  #8
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Sean Hill isn't a top 5 defensman? You do know he had 39 points last year...right? Niinimaa, on the other hand, had 28. Not trying to say Hill is better because I don't think he is, but he adds some offense and a physical presence (which I thought was what the Islanders wanted...)It wasn't a "my junk + a pick for Niinimaa" proposal...it was a "my struggling defensman for your struggling defensman" proposal.

Anyway, you guys don't want Hill, thats fine...doesn't surprise me, but I think you're making the deal look alot worse than it really is. Hill outproduced Janne last year, is alot more physical and while not the best defensive player, Janne isn't either. Hill is alot older, but considering he's cheaper I thought the extra million could be an asset as well.

Oh well.

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11-07-2005, 05:34 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
You can tell from the edgy tone today of my esteemed NYI brethren that things aren't going to well currently in Islander Land!

I'm a lot less po'd over how things are going in islander land,then I am reading one crappy proposal after another,that has the isles taking back spare parts for top 4 d-man,in a seller's market for defensemen.

trots,I posted before the season that I approved the major roster changes.Even if the isles miss the playoffs this yr,take a step back before taking a couple steps forward...I still approve the major changes.I want more then sneaking into the playoffs as the 8th seed,with a mediocre team.


Last edited by CREW99AW: 11-07-2005 at 05:41 PM.
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11-07-2005, 05:38 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKF37
Sean Hill isn't a top 5 defensman? You do know he had 39 points last year...right? Niinimaa, on the other hand, had 28. Not trying to say Hill is better because I don't think he is, but he adds some offense and a physical presence (which I thought was what the Islanders wanted...)It wasn't a "my junk + a pick for Niinimaa" proposal...it was a "my struggling defensman for your struggling defensman" proposal.

Anyway, you guys don't want Hill, thats fine...doesn't surprise me, but I think you're making the deal look alot worse than it really is. Hill outproduced Janne last year, is alot more physical and while not the best defensive player, Janne isn't either. Hill is alot older, but considering he's cheaper I thought the extra million could be an asset as well.

Oh well.

Niinimaa had 28 pts as the isles 4th offensive d-man beind Aucoin,Jonsson and Hamrlik.He got off to a horrible start this yr,but is slowly coming around,since Stirling started sitting players several games ago.He's still erratic and i'm not saying he won't be dealt at some point,but it's won't be in a talent down grade or salary dump.

and enough with the $ saved.There aren't any quality ufas left to sign.We are seeing it's tougher for teams to line up trades,having to match salaries,so what good does that extra million do?

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11-07-2005, 05:40 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I'm a lot less po'd over how things are going in islander land,then I am reading one crappy proposal after another,that has the isles taking back spare parts for top 4 d-man,in a seller's market for defensemen.

trots,I posted before the season that I approved the major roster changes.Even if the isles miss the playoffs this yr,take a step back before taking a couple steps forward...I still approve the major changes.I want more then sneaking into the 8th seed with a mediocre team.
You know I was just busting you and Darth, I share your frustration.

You have been consistent Crew. and funny thing is, this team has months to get its act together, as is.

That said, I've been consistent in suggesting since July that Milbury sold out his defense (and his goalies in particular) by his moves this summer. Coming into the season, one need not be a hockey guru to see that this team was tempting fate defensively.

Likewise, the core of this team (except for Dipietro) lacks heart, character and courage. And it is being played out nightly on the ice. A team - any team - takes on the character of its "top" players. I need not say anything more in that regard.

Anyway you want to look at it, the current NYI squad is substandard defensively, talent wise. And it is comprised of a good group of "support" forward in search of star power. As in: winner/leaders with some bite who play a complete game on a consistent basis.

So I'm with you with regard to nurturing Nilsson, etc. However, the foundation of this team - assembled by the brilliant clown - is terribly flawed. And 20 y/o kids, like Nilsson, can't realistically be expected to lead a team anywhere.


Last edited by Trottier: 11-07-2005 at 05:45 PM.
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Old
11-07-2005, 07:40 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKF37
Sean Hill isn't a top 5 defensman? You do know he had 39 points last year...right? Niinimaa, on the other hand, had 28. Not trying to say Hill is better because I don't think he is, but he adds some offense and a physical presence (which I thought was what the Islanders wanted...)It wasn't a "my junk + a pick for Niinimaa" proposal...it was a "my struggling defensman for your struggling defensman" proposal.

Anyway, you guys don't want Hill, thats fine...doesn't surprise me, but I think you're making the deal look alot worse than it really is. Hill outproduced Janne last year, is alot more physical and while not the best defensive player, Janne isn't either. Hill is alot older, but considering he's cheaper I thought the extra million could be an asset as well.

Oh well.
Well, I don't agree with you but I certainly respect your logic. So, forgive us for giving you a hard time.

On the other hand, I don't think Hill is nearly as well-regarded around the league as you are suggesting. A non-playoff team was able to sign him for very little for a reason. This is a player who was never that good to begin with, and had a decent offensive year for Carolina last season. He is the prototype of a journeyman dman, OK offensively but doens't bring much more to the table. The Cats are his seventh team in the NHL, and he basically got dumped for nothing by several teams in the past. There is a reason for that.

Saying "Hill is older" is also a bit of an understatement. Hill is lucky if he is going to be in the NHL for more than another season or two. Janne N has not been great, but he is in his prime.

This would be a senseless deal for the Isles, and more than a little one-sided.

And, to be honest, I still prefer the deal that started this thread. I'd rather lose Sopel for a winger than turn Janne N into Hill.

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Old
11-07-2005, 08:06 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Well, I don't agree with you but I certainly respect your logic. So, forgive us for giving you a hard time.

On the other hand, I don't think Hill is nearly as well-regarded around the league as you are suggesting. A non-playoff team was able to sign him for very little for a reason. This is a player who was never that good to begin with, and had a decent offensive year for Carolina last season. He is the prototype of a journeyman dman, OK offensively but doens't bring much more to the table. The Cats are his seventh team in the NHL, and he basically got dumped for nothing by several teams in the past. There is a reason for that.

Saying "Hill is older" is also a bit of an understatement. Hill is lucky if he is going to be in the NHL for more than another season or two. Janne N has not been great, but he is in his prime.

This would be a senseless deal for the Isles, and more than a little one-sided.

And, to be honest, I still prefer the deal that started this thread. I'd rather lose Sopel for a winger than turn Janne N into Hill.
I don't think Hill is that great of a defensman -- honestly, I'm his biggest critic over on the Panthers' board. He has been horrible all year long for us...but I also saw him play alot in Carolina and I know he can be a huge asset if used right.

To me, Hill is a poor mans version of McCabe -- very, very physical and can contribute on the powerplay because they know how to get their shots through traffic...but very erratic in their own zone for a few reasons (big hits/turnovers) McCabe is a legit top pairing defensman, however, while Hill is more of a #4 type...Niinimaa is a legit top pairing defensman as well (when on top of his game..he is a solid #2 defensman) but my logic was just that if filled a need for the Isles. Every game I've watched their defense has looked soft, timid...almost afraid. Hill is the type of guy who's extremely physical...hell, sometimes even dirty, and he somehow always seems to get away with it (even with the crackdown in calls)...plus the pick (2nd?) and the cap room the Isles saved can be used to acquire another defender.

I understand why you wouldn't want to do it...but i don't think it was as far off as you guys made it seem initially

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11-07-2005, 08:42 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
You can tell from the edgy tone today of my esteemed NYI brethren that things aren't going too well currently in Islander Land!
you bet your *** Trotts

Re:the original proposal nah we have enough hagman types


we need a young Def D type

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11-07-2005, 10:12 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKF37
I don't think Hill is that great of a defensman -- honestly, I'm his biggest critic over on the Panthers' board. He has been horrible all year long for us...but I also saw him play alot in Carolina and I know he can be a huge asset if used right.

To me, Hill is a poor mans version of McCabe -- very, very physical and can contribute on the powerplay because they know how to get their shots through traffic...but very erratic in their own zone for a few reasons (big hits/turnovers) McCabe is a legit top pairing defensman, however, while Hill is more of a #4 type...Niinimaa is a legit top pairing defensman as well (when on top of his game..he is a solid #2 defensman) but my logic was just that if filled a need for the Isles. Every game I've watched their defense has looked soft, timid...almost afraid. Hill is the type of guy who's extremely physical...hell, sometimes even dirty, and he somehow always seems to get away with it (even with the crackdown in calls)...plus the pick (2nd?) and the cap room the Isles saved can be used to acquire another defender.

I understand why you wouldn't want to do it...but i don't think it was as far off as you guys made it seem initially
You're Hills biggest critic on the Panthers forum? That's extremely laughable when I've said from the day he was signed he sucked. He has never produced points anywhere except in Carolina and he has only done it there during contract years. And at his age and the style of game played today, HIll's game is over with in the NHL. Darth has Hill pegged correctly as Hill bein scraps. No chance the Panthers could acquire Janne without one of the top kids' names bein in the deal. He is just too important to the Isles right now with no foreseeable immediate replacement.

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