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Toronto/St. Louis Proposal

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Old
11-09-2005, 09:31 AM
  #1
richardn
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Toronto/St. Louis Proposal

To Toronto: Eric Brewer

To St. Louis: Darcy Tucker, Carlo Colaiacovo and a 3rd round Pick

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Old
11-09-2005, 09:35 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn
To Toronto: Eric Brewer

To St. Louis: Darcy Tucker, Carlo Colaiacovo and a 3rd round Pick

you posted this on the Leafs board...

No for me because...

Tucker is to valuable at his price
We haven't given Carlo a chance yet

to me Brewer is over rated...

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11-09-2005, 09:45 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn
To Toronto: Eric Brewer

To St. Louis: Darcy Tucker, Carlo Colaiacovo and a 3rd round Pick
Personally I woulnd't do it. A good proposal though, one of few where Toronto is ripping off the other team, imo St. Louis wins hands down

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Old
11-09-2005, 09:53 AM
  #4
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IMO Leafs get ***** on this deal big time. (too much)

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Old
11-09-2005, 10:00 AM
  #5
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As a Toronto fan I don't like this deal for two reasons:

1.) I am one of the few who believe that Brewer is over-rated.
2.) I also believe that Colaiacovo can be a top 3 NHL defenseman.

However, it is understandable if the perceived market value for Colaiacovo is less than it should be for a couple of reasons (it could be argued that Colaiacovo has taken too long to make the NHL and his health may be of concern).

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11-09-2005, 10:03 AM
  #6
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Have to admit this is one of the worst trade porposal's I have ever seen. why not throw in Sundin, Steen, and the ACC in too? What has Brewer ever done to make his value seem so high. Granted he has a lot of great tools and skills, but really hasn't been able to put together more than one solid season yet.

For Brewer I would give up:

Antropov, and a lesser player/prospect like Berg, or Bell, or Harrison, or Pilar.

Not much else.

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Old
11-09-2005, 10:35 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn
To Toronto: Eric Brewer

To St. Louis: Darcy Tucker, Carlo Colaiacovo and a 3rd round Pick

We'd be giving up WAY to much. Brewer so far in his career has been too inconsistant. We'd probably be able to get him for Colaiacovo and a 3rd as he has disappointed far in St Louis, and he makes too much money (2.5 mil I believe)

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Old
11-09-2005, 10:41 AM
  #8
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Toronto gets hosed. Never happen.

But St. Louis does need an improvement in their 5-6 position. Aki Berg for a 3rd.

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Old
11-09-2005, 10:47 AM
  #9
Darth Milbury
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The only wildcard in this deal is Brewer's status as a impending UFA. Otherwise, in contrast to what Leafs fans above say, this badly favors Toronto.

Tucker is an overrated forward - a third liner on most teams. Cola has shown nothing, and is now entering his third season in the AHL. Brewer, for all his ups and downs, was still good enough to be a principal in the a deal to get Chris Pronger.

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Old
11-09-2005, 10:52 AM
  #10
BlueAndWhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The only wildcard in this deal is Brewer's status as a impending UFA. Otherwise, in contrast to what Leafs fans above say, this badly favors Toronto.

Tucker is an overrated forward - a third liner on most teams. Cola has shown nothing, and is now entering his third season in the AHL. Brewer, for all his ups and downs, was still good enough to be a principal in the a deal to get Chris Pronger.
A few of the posters were not Leaf fans ...

You really like Brewer Darth and this clouds your judgement. You have a certain affinity for certain defenseman (Jay McKee is one I remember from a few years back) and in turn you overvalue them.

The Pronger deal was more about just exchanging assets for assets, you know that, I know that. There was the whole issue about Pronger's contract.

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Old
11-09-2005, 10:54 AM
  #11
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What about Jackman instead of Brewer?

i think i would do that

but losing Tucker instead of Antropov does leave us with a glutton of big slow forwards

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11-09-2005, 10:55 AM
  #12
BlueAndWhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pspot
What about Jackman instead of Brewer?

i think i would do that
I don't think St. Louis is going to trade Jackman for the Toronto package.

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:03 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
A few of the posters were not Leaf fans ...

You really like Brewer Darth and this clouds your judgement. You have a certain affinity for certain defenseman (Jay McKee is one I remember from a few years back) and in turn you overvalue them.

The Pronger deal was more about just exchanging assets for assets, you know that, I know that. There was the whole issue about Pronger's contract.
Do you honestly think, even contracts included, that Toronto could have gotten Pronger for a package built around Tucker?

St. Louis would have laughed at that.

And, yeah, I do like Brewer and I did like McKee a lot before injuries took away his effectiveness.

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:06 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
A few of the posters were not Leaf fans ...
Really, which ones. 6 of the first 8 posters have Pro-Toronto signatures. That leaves two potential Non-Leafs fans from that group.

Quote:
You really like Brewer Darth and this clouds your judgement. You have a certain affinity for certain defenseman (Jay McKee is one I remember from a few years back) and in turn you overvalue them.
And by that same token you have a certain affinity for players/prospeects on Toronto that causes you to overvalue them.

Nobody outside of Toronto sees Colaiacovo as anything more than a potential 3/4 D man. That is his upside and he hasn't even come close to tapping into that. He's been getting NHL exposure for 3 seasons now and he hasn't risen above #6 status. He doesn't have HALF the value you are placing on him.

By the same token Tucker is a 3rd liner AT BEST. The Blues already have 3 lines worth of those thank you very much. We sure as heck don't want another one; especially not one with a habit of pulling cheap shots.

Brewer has established himself as a #2 quality D man in this league. He also has All-Star and Olympic honors to his name. He has SIGNIFICANTLY more value than you guys are giving him credit for.

Quote:
The Pronger deal was more about just exchanging assets for assets, you know that, I know that. There was the whole issue about Pronger's contract.
There's also the fact that the Blues are being sold and the trade was forced. So what? Brewer was still THE focal point in a trade for the best D man in the NHL. That says a LOT about what his trade value is/should be. A 3rd liner, a quickly fading D prospect(and BTW we have a TON of good D prospects in our system and a couple of them have just as high(or higher) of a upside as Colo does)) and a 3rd round pick is about HALF what he's worth. No sale.

And BTW; I am a Blues fan and would gladly trade Brewer for a decent return. Tucker, Colo and a pick is not a decent return.

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:12 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn
To Toronto: Eric Brewer

To St. Louis: Darcy Tucker, Carlo Colaiacovo and a 3rd round Pick
I am not a huge fan of Tucker. He score, but alot of it depends on who his linemates are. This season he is benefitting from playing w/ Lindros. He can't really create on his own. I am not sure a package around him could get you a top pairing dman, in fact, I am pretty sure it wouldn't. This seems to be more of a quantity for quality trade.

If the Blues were to move Brewer it would be for a younger forward or a package of young players. I think they would start by asking for Steen or Stajan plus...

BTW... Colai is only 22. I have no idea of why people are so down on him. It would be different if he was 25, but he needs time, like most d men. No point in rushing for the sake of getting him into the lineup.

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:13 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
I am not a huge fan of Tucker. He score, but alot of it depends on who his linemates are. This season he is benefitting from playing w/ Lindros. He can't really create on his own. I am not sure a package around him could get you a top pairing dman, in fact, I am pretty sure it wouldn't. This seems to be more of a quantity for quality trade.

If the Blues were to move Brewer it would be for a younger forward or a package of young players. I think they would start by asking for Steen or Stajan plus...

BTW... Colai is only 22. I have no idea of why people are so down on him. It would be different if he was 25, but he needs time, like most d men. No point in rushing for the sake of getting him into the lineup.

Steen or Stajan or Wellwood would not be in any proposal by an leaf management!!!

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11-09-2005, 11:15 AM
  #17
Frenzy1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
Steen or Stajan or Wellwood would not be in any proposal by an leaf management!!!
Then you wouldn't get Brewer. If you are unwilling to part w/ Quality why would another team?

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11-09-2005, 11:16 AM
  #18
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[QUOTE=kimzey59]Really, which ones. 6 of the first 8 posters have Pro-Toronto signatures. That leaves two potential Non-Leafs fans from that group.



And by that same token you have a certain affinity for players/prospeects on Toronto that causes you to overvalue them.

Nobody outside of Toronto sees Colaiacovo as anything more than a potential 3/4 D man. That is his upside and he hasn't even come close to tapping into that. He's been getting NHL exposure for 3 seasons now and he hasn't risen above #6 status. He doesn't have HALF the value you are placing on him.

By the same token Tucker is a 3rd liner AT BEST. The Blues already have 3 lines worth of those thank you very much. We sure as heck don't want another one; especially not one with a habit of pulling cheap shots.

Brewer has established himself as a #2 quality D man in this league. He also has All-Star and Olympic honors to his name. He has SIGNIFICANTLY more value than you guys are giving him credit for.



There's also the fact that the Blues are being sold and the trade was forced. So what? Brewer was still THE focal point in a trade for the best D man in the NHL. That says a LOT about what his trade value is/should be. A 3rd liner, a quickly fading D prospect(and BTW we have a TON of good D prospects in our system and a couple of them have just as high(or higher) of a upside as Colo does)) and a 3rd round pick is about HALF what he's worth. No sale.

And BTW; I am a Blues fan and would gladly trade Brewer for a decent return. Tucker, Colo and a pick is not a decent return.[/QUOTE]


Your crazy than and vastly overate Brewer!

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11-09-2005, 11:18 AM
  #19
kimzey59
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[QUOTE=Vedder19]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Really, which ones. 6 of the first 8 posters have Pro-Toronto signatures. That leaves two potential Non-Leafs fans from that group.



And by that same token you have a certain affinity for players/prospeects on Toronto that causes you to overvalue them.

Nobody outside of Toronto sees Colaiacovo as anything more than a potential 3/4 D man. That is his upside and he hasn't even come close to tapping into that. He's been getting NHL exposure for 3 seasons now and he hasn't risen above #6 status. He doesn't have HALF the value you are placing on him.

By the same token Tucker is a 3rd liner AT BEST. The Blues already have 3 lines worth of those thank you very much. We sure as heck don't want another one; especially not one with a habit of pulling cheap shots.

Brewer has established himself as a #2 quality D man in this league. He also has All-Star and Olympic honors to his name. He has SIGNIFICANTLY more value than you guys are giving him credit for.



There's also the fact that the Blues are being sold and the trade was forced. So what? Brewer was still THE focal point in a trade for the best D man in the NHL. That says a LOT about what his trade value is/should be. A 3rd liner, a quickly fading D prospect(and BTW we have a TON of good D prospects in our system and a couple of them have just as high(or higher) of a upside as Colo does)) and a 3rd round pick is about HALF what he's worth. No sale.

And BTW; I am a Blues fan and would gladly trade Brewer for a decent return. Tucker, Colo and a pick is not a decent return.[/QUOTE]


Your crazy than and vastly overate Brewer!

You're trying to land a #2 D man for a 3rd liner, a fading D prospect and a mid-level pick and I'm the crazy one?

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:20 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The only wildcard in this deal is Brewer's status as a impending UFA. Otherwise, in contrast to what Leafs fans above say, this badly favors Toronto.

Tucker is an overrated forward - a third liner on most teams. Cola has shown nothing, and is now entering his third season in the AHL. Brewer, for all his ups and downs, was still good enough to be a principal in the a deal to get Chris Pronger.
Alright then let's make it Brewer for Robert Nilsson and Trent Hunter while we are talking about prospects showing nothing and overrated forwards.

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11-09-2005, 11:22 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
Then you wouldn't get Brewer. If you are unwilling to part w/ Quality why would another team?

Brewer is over rated... and makes almost 3 mill??? or is it more I don't know...

he would be #4 on our team behind

McCabe Kaberle Klee


Tucker is more valuable than Brewer he brings scoring checking agitator fighting passing.. He brings it all every game... and Carlo is just starting out... why the hell we Toronto do this??? Please tell me...


how about Alexei Shkotov and Barret Jackman for Ken Klee.....

thats basically what your saying... just i'm exhadurating it a little more

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11-09-2005, 11:26 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
Brewer is over rated... and makes almost 3 mill??? or is it more I don't know...

he would be #4 on our team behind

McCabe Kaberle Klee


Tucker is more valuable than Brewer he brings scoring checking agitator fighting passing.. He brings it all every game... and Carlo is just starting out... why the hell we Toronto do this??? Please tell me...


how about Alexei Shkotov and Barret Jackman for Ken Klee.....

thats basically what your saying... just i'm exhadurating it a little more
Your exaggerating a LOT more. Jackman is already a better player than Ken Klee. Terrible comparison.

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:31 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
Brewer is over rated... and makes almost 3 mill??? or is it more I don't know...

he would be #4 on our team behind

McCabe Kaberle Klee


Tucker is more valuable than Brewer he brings scoring checking agitator fighting passing.. He brings it all every game... and Carlo is just starting out... why the hell we Toronto do this??? Please tell me...


how about Alexei Shkotov and Barret Jackman for Ken Klee.....

thats basically what your saying... just i'm exhadurating it a little more
Brewer makes about .5m more than Tucker. It's not really that close to 3m. Tucker is overpaid worse than Brewer, IMO.

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:32 AM
  #24
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Trade for Brewer?

First of all, the Blues organization is in a midst of getting a new owner/controlling group. These trades that involves the Blues are not going to go anywhere, unless the BLues are overwhelmed by the offer or they get pics/younger and cheaper players. With all of that mentioned now, this trade does nothing for me. And Brewer's value as a #2/#3 d-man is higher than most people give him credit for. Brewer is learning a new system/player/coach and dealing with the new rules. I believe he has done pretty good at all.

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Old
11-09-2005, 11:32 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
Brewer is over rated... and makes almost 3 mill??? or is it more I don't know...

he would be #4 on our team behind

McCabe Kaberle Klee


Tucker is more valuable than Brewer he brings scoring checking agitator fighting passing.. He brings it all every game... and Carlo is just starting out... why the hell we Toronto do this??? Please tell me...


how about Alexei Shkotov and Barret Jackman for Ken Klee.....

thats basically what your saying... just i'm exhadurating it a little more
A few things:

Brewer makes 2 mil EVEN.

Klee is a #4 D man. Brewer is a #2 D man. IF he were on the Leaf's he would be either your #2 or your #1. You Leaf fans are REALLY reaching to try and knock Brewer's value down and it isn't going to happen. Brewer is an ESTABLISHED #2 D man. He has All-Star and Olympic appearances on his resume playing for a STACKED Team Canada. Get over your homerism; Brewer is better than all of your D men except McCabe(and only if McCabe is having one of his god nights).

Tucker can chip in rebounds and hit people(with his stick)- that is it. He is a 3rd liner. He has close to ZERO trade value.

You're exhadurating more than just a little. A closer facsimile would be Drake and Wideman for McCabe. Now do you see why the Blues fans are laughing at this proposal? Brewer is an established #2 D man-Tucker is chump change; Colo is no better than what we already have in the system and the 3rd round pick doesn't even START to even up the value. No deal.

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