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Steve Smith's own goal 1986

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11-09-2005, 10:18 AM
  #1
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Steve Smith's own goal 1986

Thats not why the Oilers lost to a half butted Cowtown squad that had little true "star" power. True dynasties usually don't find themselves on the losing end of quarterfinal series.

Was Steve Smith unfairly blamed for costing them a cup in 86? I say yes. The Oilers should have been more concerned with team play rather than scoring records and maybe played more defence too. And exonerated Smith more vocally afterwards. He later left to star in Chicago.

I still remember that play, Toe calling for the puck by banging his stick repeatedly on the ice as usual, the rookie defenceman rushing to obey and and it goes in off the goalie's skate. Not a lot of whoop whoops that spring for the Oilers.

But don't blame Smith.

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11-09-2005, 10:24 AM
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BTW, does anyone have video of it, I haven't seen it yet?

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11-09-2005, 10:38 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Thats not why the Oilers lost to a half butted Cowtown squad that had little true "star" power. True dynasties usually don't find themselves on the losing end of quarterfinal series.
Sorry, but that WAS the difference.

It wasn't much of an issue with any of the hockey fans I knew.

It was the case.

A mere quarterfinal series? Calgary was no mere quarterfinal team. They were one of the best teams that season. Edmonton still came back to win it all the next year.

But dang, not only did Smith do it but he ended up playing for the Flames years later. ONLY a coincidence, but it still hurt to see, to be reminded of the past.

This thread just brings back the pain.

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Old
11-09-2005, 12:48 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Was Steve Smith unfairly blamed for costing them a cup in 86? I say yes.
Totally agree. One goal, no matter at what time of any game does not a series make.

After every team that is 'supposed' to win loses, they have to find excuses, or players to pin it on, and Mr. Smith was an easy scapgoat. He wasn't in the beloved group of players (ie Gretz, Messier, etc) that actually cost the team the series.

also Calgary should be given full marks for winning that series. No seven game series in history (of any sport for that matter) is won strictly on one fluke goal.

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11-09-2005, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acr
BTW, does anyone have video of it, I haven't seen it yet?
I don`t have it on tape, but it pops up on ESPN Classic and the NHL Network quite often. I don`t remember Gretzky banging his stick on the ice, guess I`ll have to watch closer next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Sorry, but that WAS the difference.

It wasn't much of an issue with any of the hockey fans I knew.

It was the case.

A mere quarterfinal series? Calgary was no mere quarterfinal team. They were one of the best teams that season. Edmonton still came back to win it all the next year.
The goal may have been his fault, but was it his fault that they lost 3 earlier games and still hadn`t gone in front late in Game 7 against a team that finished 30 points below in the standings? Coffey had a poor series, Fuhr let in some stoppable shots, there was plenty of blame to go around.

After Edmonton won in `87, Gretzky immediately giving the Cup to Smith so he could be the first one to hold it over his head was one the classiest gestures I`ve ever seen.

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11-09-2005, 02:44 PM
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Yeah it was hardly all SMith's fault. Gretzky even said once in his autobiography that they jsut assumed they'd tie the game up again. What was it like 12 minutes to go or something? Edmonton still won three Cups after that. Smith isnt all to blame geez even Bill Buckner of the Red Sox isnt all to blame in 1986 for them losing either.

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11-10-2005, 02:24 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
True dynasties usually don't find themselves on the losing end of quarterfinal series.
Now you're trying to say the Oilers weren't a true dynasty?

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11-10-2005, 08:45 AM
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True dynasties that finish with 103 points also do not get thumped in the first round 3 games to none by an upstart team only a few years past expansion who finished with 74. They do not get outscored 15-6 in that series and their best player does not only manage 1 assist and 2 penalty minutes.

And yet it happened in 1980.

Lafleur was utterly shutdown, Gretzky ran amok and the Oilers crushed Montreal.

Man, did I ever hear about that one all summer long.

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11-10-2005, 09:15 AM
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Wasn't Smith just an injury replacement for Lee Fogolin (for the most part) that year?

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11-10-2005, 11:19 AM
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Chooch as usual is trying to malign the Oilers dynasty. Losing to the Flames in Game 7 was not only Steve Smith's fault. Let's give the Flames some credit they were the best team of the late 80's that wasn't the Oilers. If not for the Oilers they would probably have had a good chance to win the West from 85-89.

The Flames deserve credit for beating the Oilers. Chooch how do you feel about the 2 best teams of the late 80's coming from the WESTERN conference?

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11-10-2005, 08:29 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup2006sensrule
Chooch as usual is trying to malign the Oilers dynasty. Losing to the Flames in Game 7 was not only Steve Smith's fault. Let's give the Flames some credit they were the best team of the late 80's that wasn't the Oilers. If not for the Oilers they would probably have had a good chance to win the West from 85-89.

The Flames deserve credit for beating the Oilers. Chooch how do you feel about the 2 best teams of the late 80's coming from the WESTERN conference?
I always liked the Flames and the way they played taking after Badger Bob. Pretty classy. I dont recall anyone whooping it up like an idiot after an empty net goal or asking for protection or something. Calgary's a great town period not just a hockey town. They did lose to the Habs in 5 that year but won in 6 in 89.

Usually the Eastern teams would beat themselves into submission and the West would cruise to the Cup in those years.

To Malefuc74: the 81 Habs were in the middle of losing 4 straight in the first round. Quite the dynasty.

And no I dont think the Oilers of the 80's were a true dynasty. Look at their GA and defence? Dr Gregg, Huddy, Marty Mac, Fogolin, Lowe was nothing special either. etc. Any of the true dynastic teams would have swept them.

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11-10-2005, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Pretty classy. I dont recall anyone whooping it up like an idiot after an empty net goal or asking for protection or something.


Yeah, it was really classy when Risebrough shredded an Oilers jersey with his skates. It was so classy when Bullard went down like a rag doll from McSorelys jab, to laughing and bragging about his theatrics in the Calgary media that same night. It was so classy when they took out Hawerchuk in '85 just because they were losing the series.

Quote:
And no I dont think the Oilers of the 80's were a true dynasty.
What do you have against the Oilers?

Even only the densest Flames fans would say something like this. This statement is so laughable that you HAVE to be kidding. If you're not, I think it's quite clear that you don't have a clue about hockey outside of your beloved Scabs.

Quote:
Any of the true dynastic teams would have swept them.
Examples? Like when the Oilers beat an Islanders dynasty that made the finals 5 times in a row, in 5 games?

Seriously there should be a statute on idiocy here or something. You need help dude. My recommendation would be Dr. Kevorkian.

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11-11-2005, 12:10 AM
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Tikk, don't feed the troll. This has something to do with the grudge that Chooch has against Wayne Gretzky for not being French.

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11-11-2005, 01:45 AM
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76-77 Canadiens - 132 points. Greatest team ever iced. 8 losses. +241 goal differential. Won the Cup.
77-78 Canadiens - 129 points. 10 losses; still going strong. Won the Cup
78-79 Canadiens - 115 points. Guy goes 52-77-129. 2nd overall reg season. Won the Cup.
79-80 Canadiens - 107 points. 3rd overall. Guy goes 50-75-125. Lose to Stars in 2nd round in 7 games.
80-81 Canadiens - 103 points. 3rd overall. Despite a drop in offense still very stingy.

Not exactly a huge drop-off. Only 2 years removed from their last Cup win, with the core of Lafleur, Shutt, Gainey, Robinson, Langway still intact. Sevigny was 20-4-3 with a 2.40 GAA. This wasn't exactly a bunch of stiffs. Every sportswriter was picking an easy win for the Habs. Sevigny said Lafleur would put Gretzky in his pocket.

The result? Lafleur only gets one point. Gainey and Jarvis cannot contain Gretzky. The Habs are overconfident and get stomped like narcs at a biker rally.

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11-12-2005, 09:42 AM
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[QUOTE=chooch]I always liked the Flames and the way they played taking after Badger Bob. Pretty classy. I dont recall anyone whooping it up like an idiot after an empty net goal or asking for protection or something. Calgary's a great town period not just a hockey town. They did lose to the Habs in 5 that year but won in 6 in 89.

Usually the Eastern teams would beat themselves into submission and the West would cruise to the Cup in those years.

To Malefuc74: the 81 Habs were in the middle of losing 4 straight in the first round. Quite the dynasty.

And no I dont think the Oilers of the 80's were a true dynasty. Look at their GA and defence? Dr Gregg, Huddy, Marty Mac, Fogolin, Lowe was nothing special either. etc. Any of the true dynastic teams would have swept them.[/QUOTE]


Ah, well. At least none of those mentioned have been forced in their retirement to pimp impotence pills or sell their jerseys and trophies to keep their creditors at bay.

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11-12-2005, 09:57 AM
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The Steve Smith goal really is just an unfortunate incident all the way around. Can you put the loss squarely on his shoulders? No, obviously not. However, the fact remains that if Smith avoids that monumental screw-up and makes a proper breakout pass, there is a very good chance that the Oilers win the cup that year. This would have solidified their rightful place among the greatest teams of all time, and you knuckleheads who don't think the 80s Oilers qualify as a dynasty could go stick your heads back in the sand.

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11-12-2005, 10:32 AM
  #17
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Those Flame teams were excellent.Bob Johnson was the coach.Calgary would have more than 1 Cup if it wasn't for Edmonton

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11-12-2005, 11:12 AM
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Bob Johnson's "Seven Point Plan":

1) "We wanted to leave their tough guys on the ice...." McSorley, McClelland and Semenko.
2) "Key in on Gretzky" Neil Sheehy and Doug Reisbrough were always on the ice when Gretzky was
3) "Neutralize Coffey with the RW" When he jumped into play they made sure he couldn't get back in time, that way there were alot of odd man rushes.
4) "We had to close the gap between our forwards and our Dmen".
5) "Do not give up the blueline on the left side" Messier, Anderson and Gretzky always went up the left side, keying in on that area forced them to the other side.
6) Colin Patterson assigned to Kurri
7) Get ahead early.

Risebrough before he the series..."we're going into this for one reason, to win at whatever cost"
Calgary wins first game 4-1
Edmonton wins second game in OT
Calgary wins third game 3-2
Game four, 7-4 for the Greasers
Game 5, 4-1 Flames
Game 6 Oilers
Game 7, Flames 2-0 early, Edm ties it up......5 mins left in the third when Steve Smith made the big mistake

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11-12-2005, 11:19 AM
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Those "seven point's" make for interesting reading. I wish I was a bit older at the time (I was 9 in 1985) to really appreciate what great hockey was being played.

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11-12-2005, 11:30 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuillicuddy
Those "seven point's" make for interesting reading. I wish I was a bit older at the time (I was 9 in 1985) to really appreciate what great hockey was being played.
Can't say I was "there", but watching old hockey games from the 80s, albeit exciting, is also full of lazy defense and goaltending. Half the plays in that era would NEVER have happened in today's NHL. You literally had guys who had like five seconds to shoot three feet in front of the goalie.

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11-12-2005, 03:02 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN
5 mins left in the third when Steve Smith made the big mistake
There was over 10 minutes left.

And the Oilers beat themselves. Though I have to say that it is flattering that it's practically the greatest moment in Calgary history, lol.


Last edited by se7en*: 11-12-2005 at 09:02 PM.
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11-12-2005, 06:53 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Thats not why the Oilers lost to a half butted Cowtown squad that had little true "star" power. True dynasties usually don't find themselves on the losing end of quarterfinal series.

Was Steve Smith unfairly blamed for costing them a cup in 86? I say yes. The Oilers should have been more concerned with team play rather than scoring records and maybe played more defence too. And exonerated Smith more vocally afterwards. He later left to star in Chicago.

I still remember that play, Toe calling for the puck by banging his stick repeatedly on the ice as usual, the rookie defenceman rushing to obey and and it goes in off the goalie's skate. Not a lot of whoop whoops that spring for the Oilers.

But don't blame Smith.
Wow, where the hell were you for the last 20 years? We could have used your brilliant analysis at the time...

The Flames hard work & genuinely very good team put themselves in a spot where a break would put them over the top. Smith's shot was just the capper on a tough series between a great team and one that was determined to knock them off.

Smith didn't get burnt at the stake or run out of town...he got his name on 3 more cups in Edmonton before he left for Chicago. If Edmonton blamed him so much how come he didn't leave for 6 years? I still remember him rubbing Neely out into the sideboards when the Oilers won their last cup. I think he was pretty established as a player when he went to Chicago.

I don't really care if you think the Oil's Cup days were worthy of the "dynasty" tag. I could pull the names of the bottom pluggers off any "dynasty" team as a rebuttal to your claim, but I have already wasted more time on this topic then it's worth.

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11-12-2005, 07:34 PM
  #23
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I can't believe chooch is still on his anti-Gretzky crusade after his silly points about empty net goals and people "whooping it up" have been battered into oblivion month after month...

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11-13-2005, 01:41 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikk
There was over 10 minutes left.

And the Oilers beat themselves. Though I have to say that it is flattering that it's practically the greatest moment in Calgary history, lol.

You sure about that? Cause going by the book I just got that from there was under 5 left.....And up to that time it was the biggest win in the Flames history...only two years before we lost the 7th game to you guys after some costly injuries...( I guess you can say the Flames beat themselves that year).
It's funny how Edmonton fans think all Flames fans care about is beating Edmonton, But sorry man, I don't even get jacked up for the BOA games anymore, it's becoming a foregone conclusion

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11-13-2005, 03:26 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN
I don't even get jacked up for the BOA games anymore, it's becoming a foregone conclusion
No offense, but ditto. I can't stand watching the Flames play their brand of "hockey". The Flames put the "bore" in "boring".

Seems like it's a trend nowadays for both Oilers and Flames fans to deny that they're rivals...that's okay; we have our rivalry with Dallas.

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