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10-08-2003, 08:49 AM
  #1
goldenchild
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O/T Eagles vs Cowgirls

Hi there guys I'm an Oilers fan not Flyers but I love my birds and have since I started watching during the Buddy Ball days. i am sure there are Eagles fans here so what's gonna happen this week? at 3-2 Eagles go in to the Giants game in good shape. Vincent is probable, Taylor is out, Dawk is out, and Buckhalter is questionable.

Anyways I'm not sold on the Girls they beat some weak teams, Carter is running a college offence I say Jim Johnson blitzes him till the cows come home. Another big game fior Westbrook and I think Don gets on track with 2TD's 1 to LJ Smith. I would love to see more Billy Mcmullen aswell. Anyways I'll say 24-17 Eagles. what do you guys think?

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10-08-2003, 09:35 AM
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I'm a huge Buccaneers fan but i will say this about the Eagles. It looks like they regained their confidence and should get better and better as games progress. One thing I didn't like is that they had the Skins looking mediocre for most part of the game and then they got sloppy and allowed them to almost force thegame to go into OT. They have got to stay consistent for 60 minutes if they want to be taken seriously. I think they will take the Cowboys but won't have an easy time doing it. I can see this going straight till the end to decide a winner.

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10-08-2003, 10:20 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teezax
I'm a huge Buccaneers fan but i will say this about the Eagles. It looks like they regained their confidence and should get better and better as games progress. One thing I didn't like is that they had the Skins looking mediocre for most part of the game and then they got sloppy and allowed them to almost force thegame to go into OT. They have got to stay consistent for 60 minutes if they want to be taken seriously. I think they will take the Cowboys but won't have an easy time doing it. I can see this going straight till the end to decide a winner.
I think a big part of the sloppy play at the end is that you're playing basically 4 new full-time starters in the defensive backfield (Sheppard, Brown, Clinton Hart, and Michael Lewis in his first full year as a starter), and they're still learning the game and Jim Johnson's system. This caused them some problems when the 'Skins went to the no-huddle, and the Eagles couldn't blitz as consistently. But man they got some pressure on Ramsey early, didn't they? Sheesh...he got absolutely battered back there. Which proves to me, once again, that Steve Spurrier is a moron. Hello, jackass...your QB has been knocked around all game...maybe you should try keeping some folks in on pass-protection if you can't run the ball? But no, give him 6 options...5 of which he never has a chance to see because he's got 2 or 3 Eagles in his face within the first 2 seconds. Moron. I'm so tired of all these fluff pieces written about how "he's learning"...BS. He hasn't learned jack, and that's why the Redskins will go NOWHERE again this year.

Anyway, the Cowboys. God I hate them with a passion. And I hate Bill Parcells too, so this is a double whammy game for me. I'd like to see them get after Carter and see how well he does when facing an aggressive, quick defense. Also, the Cowboys really have little in the way of a running game, so stuffing that quickly will shut down the play-action that Carthon likes to use to take the pressure off of Carter. With the Eagles speed at linebacker, they should be able to bottle him up on the rollouts, too. Now, if Troy Vincent is back, that helps the Eagles out considerably, allowing them to blitz more and bring more pressure on Carter.

On offense, Donovan has to get it together still. His play has improved, but goddamnit, throw those short passes/dumpoffs to where the guy can catch the ball AND THEN RUN WITH IT!!! What good does a screen do if it's at Duce's feet? Or Smith or whoever has to lay out to catch a 3-5 yard pass in the flat? The W.C. offense is based on getting the ball to the receivers/backs short, then letting them run with it and make plays. The QB HAS to be able to put the ball in a position for them to do that, and Donovan still is having trouble with that. Involve Mitchell some more, too...he seems to be turning things around. Stretch the field against this defense, give the ball to Westbrook some more (he's the real threat out of the three Eagles HBs), and let Donovan roam around. Roll-outs, bootlegs, etc. This will help loosen the D, and give them a chance to move the ball. And for God's sakes, no more stupid penalties from those offensive linemen. If another stupid personal foul gets called on them, I will be most aggravated. Of course, it's not like I could do anything to someone like John Runyan (who outweighs me by a good 110 lbs and has about 3" in height on me), but I'll still be annoyed.

Oh, and I think they can win. I hope they crush them, but I'll settle for a win, and the Eagles back in control of the NFC East where they should be. The Cowboys need to be beaten down and humiliated so they can be put back in their place: last.

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10-08-2003, 11:38 AM
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I don't think I'll ever be completely sold on Quincy Carter, or at least not until he proves he can lead a team. Yes, the Cowboys are off to a good start and Bill Parcell's plan has worked well, but it's hard to judge if this is the real Cowboys or a team just running on adrenaline.

It's always fun when the Cowboys and Eagles play, though-I'd have to say the Cowboys are the Eagles biggest rival-other than the Giants.

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10-08-2003, 03:21 PM
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I guess some of you guys forget that they beat the Giants in NY huh?

I think that Parcells has the Cowboys playing well and is coaching to they're strengths. they do have capable running backs to mount a ground attack and if the Eagles decide to single up on the Cowboys recievers, they better get to Carter because if they don't those recievers can makes some big plays.

anyway, I'm hoping for a good game and a Cowboys win.

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10-08-2003, 05:11 PM
  #6
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Carter is somewhat mobile and those WRs are very good. Can't wait to see Parcells and Johnson go at it.

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10-08-2003, 08:19 PM
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what a shock

going into a flyers board and not many eagles fans. i can say its different for me i'm from canada and a Packers fan.

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10-08-2003, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexxy27
First of all Carter has looked twice as good as McNabb so far this year. For your knowledge teams have tried to blitz Carter non stop and it hasn't worked so far. The only ones that will look like girls out there will be McNabb and Staley. Cowboys by 7!!!
Carter looking half as good as McNabb for one game should be considered a good year him. Secondly Dallas hasn't played a team as good as the Eagles yet. Can't wait to see Carter holding the ball and the DL getting a slew of coverage sacks.

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10-09-2003, 02:59 AM
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Eagles are lucky to be 2-2. The are no longer a 'good' team. Giants have outplayed the Eagles this year. Cowboys beat them in their own back yard (with a healthy dose of luck).

Jimmy Johnson is the best defensive coordinator in the league, but he has zilch left to work with. Reid has the offense looking terrible. Carter hasn't looked better than McNabb for one game, he has looked better than McNabb all year.

I am a Carter doubter, he reminds me of Kordell Stewart in that he can look as bad as he can good, but the Cowboys have been playing at a higher level than the Eagles. I don't think their can be any doubt about that.

It is going to be a good game. Even when the Cowboys stunk, they put up a fight (and vice-versa for the Eagles). Parcells is a much better coach than Reid and has a healthier team at his disposal. I expect McNabb and the offense to continue to flounder, Jim Johnson to befuddle Carter and the game to be decided by a TD. I give it to the home team.

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10-09-2003, 03:55 AM
  #10
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Go COWGIRLS !!!

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10-09-2003, 04:27 AM
  #11
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I'm in a huge pick 'em pool at school...You put in 5 bucks and pick the winner of 5 games. If you get all 5 games right then you get the pot - which is over 200 bucks. Here were my picks for the week:

(I can still revise them, until tomorrow, so lemme know if you think I should change anything)

Ravens over Cardinals
Saints over Bears
Colts over Panthers
Dolphins over Jaguars
Eagles over Cowboys

Tiebreaker: St. Louis 27 Atlanta 10

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10-09-2003, 04:56 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quellet The Dogs Out
I'm in a huge pick 'em pool at school...You put in 5 bucks and pick the winner of 5 games. If you get all 5 games right then you get the pot - which is over 200 bucks. Here were my picks for the week:

(I can still revise them, until tomorrow, so lemme know if you think I should change anything)

Ravens over Cardinals
Saints over Bears
Colts over Panthers
Dolphins over Jaguars
Eagles over Cowboys

Tiebreaker: St. Louis 27 Atlanta 10
I would go for more 'sure' things.

Saints-Bears, Eagles-Cowpokes, Colts-Panthers are close match-ups.

5 'safe' picks (as safe as safe can be in the NFL anyway):

Titans over Houston
Maimi over Jags
Ravens over Cards
Bills over Jets

Those are all heavily favored match-ups.

For the last, I would take one of:
Chiefs over Packers
Seahawks over 49ers
Broncos over Steelers (this would be my choice)

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10-09-2003, 07:12 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Eagles are lucky to be 2-2. The are no longer a 'good' team. Giants have outplayed the Eagles this year. Cowboys beat them in their own back yard (with a healthy dose of luck).

Jimmy Johnson is the best defensive coordinator in the league, but he has zilch left to work with. Reid has the offense looking terrible. Carter hasn't looked better than McNabb for one game, he has looked better than McNabb all year.
mcnabb has played poorly no doubt about it but I think he has been pressing too much, the first 2 games Reid did him no favors called a terrible game, completely abandoned the run. Now they have had a nice balance, Westbrook looks sharp, I think as Buck gains confidence in is his knee he will get back to form, Duce can go back to SC as far as I'm concerned. Don seems to be getting more comfortable I think as he uses Mitchell and LJ smith more in the middle of the field his numbers will get better and he will be back to the Don we are used to.

I think our young D is getting better, I think the Skins have the best WR's in the NFC East and both Lito and Brown held their own with Coles and gardner plus Ramsay is better than Carter so I'm not too worried. I love how Simineau is playing at MLB and the D line is getting more pressure, getting Whitting back was big and even Coleman has made some plays. Simon and Walker are playing well all we need is for kalu to step up. Eagles will win and once again be at the top of the div.

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10-09-2003, 07:17 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuy69
I guess some of you guys forget that they beat the Giants in NY huh?

I think that Parcells has the Cowboys playing well and is coaching to they're strengths. they do have capable running backs to mount a ground attack and if the Eagles decide to single up on the Cowboys recievers, they better get to Carter because if they don't those recievers can makes some big plays.

anyway, I'm hoping for a good game and a Cowboys win.
The Cowboys ground game is ranked number 6 in the NFC right now, which surprised me. I did not expect them to be rated so high, but going inside those numbers a bit, we see that their numbers (like the Eagles #8 ranking in the NFC and gaudy YPC average) are inflated by one runner breaking some big runs: Aveion Cason, who's averaging over 10 YPC. The Eagles are inflated by Brian Westbrook's not quite as insane 6.5 YPC average. So before saying either team has a good ground game, I'd want a larger sample size.

In addition, look at their opponents. The Jets are awful this season, can't get out of their own way. The Cardinals are ALWAYS awful, and this season worse than usual. The Giants are 5th in the NFC in run defense, but right now are giving up almost DOUBLE what the Eagles do on the ground. They really are quite overrated this year. Their passing defense is actually LAST in the NFC right now. So beating them at home is not actually that big a deal. Of course, now without a real kicker their already awful special teams will only get worse, but still, beating them is not exactly something that should prove the Cowboys are all that great. But please...the Cowboys simply have not faced a very difficult schedule yet, while the Eagles have played Tampa Bay, New England (who has one of the best defensive coaches of the last 2 decades in Bill Belicheck), the Bills (whose defense is vastly upgraded from last season), and an improving Redskins team (which has a defense that SHOULD be good, but can't seem to get things together). I'd say the strength of schedule must be factored in to the Cowboys quick start.

I make no excuses for the Eagles, though. Donovan MUST be better...he has been very off so far, and although I think with the playcalling improving he has also started to play better (what a shock, huh Andy? Jackass), he still must get better. The Eagles also need to not let up as they did in the Redskins game. Why would you start rushing only three when all game long you've held them in check with bringing 4-6 guys??? I hate those end of the game "let's change our approach even though we've been slaughtering them with it for almost the entire game" mentalities. If the Eagles bring the pressure (something they can do as well, if not better, than anyone else thanks to Jim Johnson being a stone-cold pimp at scheming defenses), and stuff the ground game as they've been able to so far, I see Carter reverting to his old form, and Parcells blowing a gasket. Well, one can hope, right?

Oh, and JCD, I disagree with your statement about the Giants outplaying the Eagles this year. Looking at the stats and the two teams play over the season so far, I see the Eagles improving (getting back closer to "good") and the Giants regressing each week. Certainly defensively the Eagles, even missing 3/4ths of the projected starting defensive backfield, an incredibly banged up defensive line, oh and an almost completely new cast of linebackers, have been superior to the Giants while playing better teams. BTW, beating the Rams when they're starting Kurt Warner is not impressive anymore. Warner sucks, and the Rams have no clue what they're doing anymore. They barely beat Washington, they lost to Dallas, and they got smoked by a Miami team that is pretty decent. I don't see much difference between the two teams other than you can slice the Giants secondary (the projected starting secondary for the season, BTW) up even with a mediocre QB like Fiedler, and no one has been able to do that against the Eagles despite their loss of 3 Pro Bowl players back there.

Yes, I'm an Eagles homer. Yes, I'm insanely biased. But I really don't see that the Eagles are going to lose this game. Quincy's still got some learning to do, and I'm waiting for Jim Johnson and the Eagles D to start the lessons this weekend. It should be a lot of fun.

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10-09-2003, 09:02 AM
  #15
JCD
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I should know better than to discuss the Eagles here, but what the heck... I seriously wonder if people have been watching the same team I have.

I see a team that was absolutely b1tch-slapped the 1st two weeks of the season.

I see a defense that was able to contain a 1-dimensional Bills offense that was missing their star RB, but was throttled by the Bucs and Patriots. A defense that had difficulty keeping an injured 2nd year QB from rallying the Redskins to victory on the road.

(Talk about the Giants barely beating the Redskins? Was I the only person at the Linc last Sunday or what?)

I see an offense that struggles to move the ball and a QB that has yet to have a decent performance. McNabb is the worst rated QB in the league and has all of *A* TD on the year. At least he got his completion % up above 50% finally though.

Giants have given up more yards on the ground than the Eagles, so what? That statement has absolutely no meaning. Why? Ricky Williams, Marshall Faulk and Troy Hambrick versus Antowaine Smith, Joe Burns and Michael Pittman. Notice a difference there?

Truth be told, none of the NFC East teams look good. Somebody will win the division, but none of them are going anywhere.

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10-09-2003, 11:39 AM
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I also see Roy Williams sending at least one Eagles player to the training room on Sunday.

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10-10-2003, 04:59 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
I should know better than to discuss the Eagles here, but what the heck... I seriously wonder if people have been watching the same team I have.

I see a team that was absolutely b1tch-slapped the 1st two weeks of the season.

I see a defense that was able to contain a 1-dimensional Bills offense that was missing their star RB, but was throttled by the Bucs and Patriots. A defense that had difficulty keeping an injured 2nd year QB from rallying the Redskins to victory on the road.

(Talk about the Giants barely beating the Redskins? Was I the only person at the Linc last Sunday or what?)

I see an offense that struggles to move the ball and a QB that has yet to have a decent performance. McNabb is the worst rated QB in the league and has all of *A* TD on the year. At least he got his completion % up above 50% finally though.

Giants have given up more yards on the ground than the Eagles, so what? That statement has absolutely no meaning. Why? Ricky Williams, Marshall Faulk and Troy Hambrick versus Antowaine Smith, Joe Burns and Michael Pittman. Notice a difference there?

Truth be told, none of the NFC East teams look good. Somebody will win the division, but none of them are going anywhere.
I will grant you the Eagles offensive struggles. Indeed, I have been *****ing long, loud, and repeatedly about the unimaginative and unbalanced playcalling, Donovan's horrible play, and the lack of killer instinct at the end of games (letting the 'Skins come back by easing off the pressure on Patrick Ramsey).

But your assertion on the run defense shows a major pet peeve of mine: valuing name above performance. Guess what? Of the five starting running backs you mentioned (Burns was a fill-in, and only has 24 carries so far this season), Marshall Faulk is far and away the WORST PERFORMER so far this year. So no, I do NOT notice a difference there. The only running back the Giants have faced who is superior to anyone the Eagles faced was Ricky Williams. Hambrick may become a good RB someday, but his career totals barely exceed some of the season totals run up by Smith and Pittman. He has proven NOTHING in this league, and so far this year, he's actually a comparable running back to Michael Pittman. Smith has been better than Faulk (in rushing...the Pats generally use other backs for their screens and passing game, so there's really no comparison there. Besides, you left out the best comparison there would be: the Redskins running backs. It's the only common team between these two right now. And Canidate and Betts had a much higher average per carry against the Giants than against the Eagles. Christ, combined Betts and Canidate had 28 yards against the Eagles. Against the Giants, they combined for 85 yards. And let's not leave out that wonderful Giants pass defense, which let a second year QB throw for 348 yards against them. That same second year QB who threw for 271 yards against the Eagles.

But by all means, persist in believing the Giants have outplayed the Eagles this season. I know you'll write me off as a biased Eagles fan (based on that "I should know better than to discuss the Eagles here, but what the heck... I seriously wonder if people have been watching the same team I have."), but if you look at the numbers, really, they haven't been outplayed by the Giants. They had a horrible first two weeks, and I was as frustrated by that as anyone. But they've also become a completely different team since the bye week, it seems to me. The defense has tightened up, the offense is slowly (VERY slowly) improving (keep running the ball, Andy), and the young players are starting to get better as they become more comfortable in the systems.

I do agree with your statement that none of the NFC East teams look good right now, however. The Giants certainly are not impressive, the Cowboys have yet to really prove anything, and the Redskins, as long as Steve Spurrier insists on throwing the ball as much as he does and on those stupid continual audibles at the line, will go nowhere. We already covered the Eagles. But we'll see what happens. People wrote off the Pats the year they won the Super Bowl, but if one of these teams gets on a roll at the end of the season, it could make life very entertaining come playoff time. The NFL is not an easy thing to predict...let's just keep that in mind.

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10-10-2003, 05:37 AM
  #18
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When you state that you see no difference between Joe Burns-Antowaine Smith-Michael Pittman and Ricky Williams-Troy Hambrick-Marshall Faulk, then it kinda makes my point for me.

Your right, I do write you off as an Eagles homer.

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10-10-2003, 07:07 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
When you state that you see no difference between Joe Burns-Antowaine Smith-Michael Pittman and Ricky Williams-Troy Hambrick-Marshall Faulk, then it kinda makes my point for me.

Your right, I do write you off as an Eagles homer.
And I called it. Jesus Christ, look at the numbers. Now, say it with me: "IN TERMS OF PERFORMANCE, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SMITH-PITTMAN AND HAMBRICK-FAULK." I conceded Burns. I conceded Williams. But those other two...here, you want the stats? I'll give them to you.

Antowain Smith: 61 carries, 223 yards, 3.7 YPC, 1 TD, 0 Fumbles
Michael Pittman: 54 carries, 261 yards, 4.8 YPC, 0 TD, 1 Fumbles (0 lost)
Troy Hambrick: 84 carries, 299 yards, 3.6 YPC, 1 TD, 1 Fumbles (0 lost)
Marshall Faulk: 42 carries, 116 yards, 2.8 YPC, 1 TD, 0 Fumbles

Now, where the hell is the difference between these backs? Historically, Marshall Faulk has been far superior to these guys, but guess what, we're not in 2000 or 2001 or even 2002 for that matter. We're in 2003, and this season Marshall Faulk has been below average, and injured. It's not a big deal to contain him this year. His receiving hasn't even been very good. Now, he's been injured, so that'll impact that. But wait, that's my ENTIRE POINT. You cannot simply go on name alone. You have to look at how they're performing. And you refuse to do that, why, I don't know. Instead, it's easier to write me off as a homer, and not look at the data available which contradicts the majority of your point.

I notice you also discarded evidence that points to a weak Giants pass defense (one of the worst in the NFL to this point, despite having all their starters still available), and my own admission that I see flaws with this Eagles team. No, I'm just a homer because I look at the evidence and the results of the current season before making statements. Whatever. You want to delude yourself? Go ahead. But please, next time try to educate yourself before arguing with someone.

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10-10-2003, 09:42 AM
  #20
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I had a long detailed response, but didn't bother with it.

Fact is, Giants are ahead of the Eagles in the standings and have looked considerably better in the games they played.

You say how lucky the Giants were to sneak by the Redskins, but ignore the fact that the Eagles did the exact same thing.

You state how the Eagles have faced the former SB champ Bucs and the tough NE team, but ignore the fact the the Giants faced the Dolphins (a better team than the Pats) and slapped the Rams around.

You go off about how past doesn't matter, look at the present. Fine, the present shows the Bucs collapsing in 2 games and the Pats getting ***** slapped around by the Bills.

You already conceded that Ricky Williams is a far better back than Joe Burns, so I have no friggen clue why you are still trying to say that the Eagles have faced that same level of RBs. Even if Pittman=Hambrick and Smith=Faulk is true (which I disagree), that Williams>>>Burns ends all discussion.

It is this nonsense that makes you a homer.

Want some stats? Here, educate yourself:

Eagles are last in the NFC East with the worst offense in the NFL.

Now who is the deluded one again?

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10-10-2003, 10:57 AM
  #21
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Eagles v. Cowboys

Now perhaps Eagles partisans who hope that the blitz will derail Dallas may be unpleasantly surprised. Dallas offense is well suited to handle the blitz. All that speed on the outside with quick-hitting passes. Quincy Carter and Dallas are better than alot of people think.

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10-10-2003, 01:01 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
I would go for more 'sure' things.

Saints-Bears, Eagles-Cowpokes, Colts-Panthers are close match-ups.

5 'safe' picks (as safe as safe can be in the NFL anyway):

Titans over Houston
Maimi over Jags
Ravens over Cards
Bills over Jets

Those are all heavily favored match-ups.

For the last, I would take one of:
Chiefs over Packers
Seahawks over 49ers
Broncos over Steelers (this would be my choice)
You only had certain games to choose from - like Titans over Texans wasn't available.

I handed my picks in today, I went with:

Bills over Jets
Ravens over Cardinals
Dolphins over Jaguars
Eagles over Cowboys
Colts over Panthers

Should be a pretty solid weekend for me. The pot is over 200 bucks...

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10-10-2003, 04:55 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
I see a defense that was able to contain a 1-dimensional Bills offense that was missing their star RB, but was throttled by the Bucs and Patriots. A defense that had difficulty keeping an injured 2nd year QB from rallying the Redskins to victory on the road.

(Talk about the Giants barely beating the Redskins? Was I the only person at the Linc last Sunday or what?)

I see an offense that struggles to move the ball and a QB that has yet to have a decent performance. McNabb is the worst rated QB in the league and has all of *A* TD on the year. At least he got his completion % up above 50% finally though.

Giants have given up more yards on the ground than the Eagles, so what? That statement has absolutely no meaning. Why? Ricky Williams, Marshall Faulk and Troy Hambrick versus Antowaine Smith, Joe Burns and Michael Pittman. Notice a difference there?

Truth be told, none of the NFC East teams look good. Somebody will win the division, but none of them are going anywhere.
Well, with all of that in mind, the Eagles are still 2-2. The defense has lost three Pro Bowlers in the secondary and a 1st round draft pick and has managed to keep the offense in the game regardless. Heck, the rookie cornerbacks performed admirably last weekend and did just enough to beat a very good division opponent and all of us know that divisional games are hard to come by.

McNabb has not played well at all. We all know this, but over the last two weeks, he has shown signs of his true abilities and that is good. He may not be at his best, but he was capable of carrying his team to wins over the Skins and the Bills, no two easy wins my friend. You can cut up on both teams, but regardless, both teams are talented teams.


As the year goes on, McNabb will only get better and the defense will only get better. Things are looking 'good' right now. The team looked terrible in September but have looked good in October thus far. If the defense can continue to impress and then add in the hurt players, then all will be fine.

Sunday is a very big game. The linebackers really need to come and play while the cornerbacks need to stick their coverages. Get to Quincy Carter, mentally and physically, and the game is simply over.

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10-11-2003, 06:32 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagne2433
Get to Quincy Carter, mentally and physically, and the game is simply over.
this would also apply to McNabb.
McNabb has been very erratic so far this season and getting to him early to disrupt his rhythm is important.

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10-11-2003, 06:50 PM
  #25
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McNabb rarely develops a rhythm. Anybody else getting sick of the west coast offense?

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