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Old
11-15-2005, 05:14 PM
  #1
tytech
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Complain about the right players

I've watched every game this year and I hear many of the wrong names come up. Hatcher, Radio, Bundy, Savage. Radio is not expected to score goals. He is an energy guy and kills penalties. I think he does things well. Brashear is useless and I know Hitch realizes this because you hardly ever see him. Bundy is not playing any worse than any of us thought he would. He's as solid as he's always been .
Savage is the only forward hitting out there and I like his attitude. Forsberg does it when he's about to get hit. It's pretty funny too when he drops guys like McLaren.
Simm is awesome. A treat to watch considering the value for him.
Hatcher has been a force lately with smart plays and crushing hits. So, he isn't fast. We all knew this already. He won't carry the puck up the ice but at least he doesn't lose it and/or make dumb plays. He makes smart plays.

Rathje has been the biggest diappointment so far. He is slow and has had many costly giveaways. He plays, like most Europeans, with no heart. He's constantly two or three strides from the puck yet he lets players catch up to him for it. He thinks he can out challenge anyone. Maybe he does but the rest of players are not in the postion they were three seconds earlier when he could have easily made it and sent in for a rush. Now, everyone is back helping him out because he was too lazy to get it out in the first place. Sometimes they succeed and others they fail. His giveaway's are brutal and they've costed us some costly goals.

Carter has to learn how to cycle the puck. He has no grit or board work. As sson as he gets time he throws it at the net. Yes, he's flashy on the rush but he really has to learn how to do some board work. How can Richards, Sharp, Sim, Umberger and Radio challenge and Carter is either shooting it or losing it? The shots are from all angles and clearly the time to see if anyone is even there for a tip is not taken.

Cycling the puck builds mometum and momentum is lost as soon as it's turned over. Gagne is starting to shoot from all angles as well. Once you get cycling going it disrupts the other teams defense. They start running around and get all disorientated. Whereas, the offensive team builds momentum on that pressure and good things happen.

Is it just me or is Johnson not playing up to his capabilities as well? Pitkanen is now the Johnson of years past, a tad less finess but with a lot more build and force. Johnsson would compliment this nicely if Johnsson played liked Johnsson. I think he's nervous about his partner not being able to make it back.

Overall we are doing well but been lucky. Some overtime wins, late comebacks and late go aheads. Short handed goals etc...I can't wait for our full team to be healthy. Especially Sami. Send down Sharp and Keep Umberger, he looks ready to take the next step. Sit Brashear and let Primeau take his spot.

Let me know your suggestions. I'll sit with Hitch and see what we can come up with together.


Last edited by tytech: 11-15-2005 at 05:19 PM.
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Old
11-15-2005, 05:30 PM
  #2
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Johnsson's not playing as well as he has in the past, but he's been getting better the last few games. I expect him to get back to his old self before too long.

Rathje's been good IMO. He's limited by what he can do, but he's still a solid defender.

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11-15-2005, 05:37 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Bundy is not playing any worse than any of us thought he would. He's as solid as he's always been .
Have you seen the Tampa game yet? He had even me slapping my forehead. Repeatedly.

Seriously, yeah, we're all used to him being out of position a lot. But when he does crap like covering the other D-man's guy or passing right in front of his net to, say... Lecavalier, it's unacceptable.

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11-15-2005, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Rathje has been the biggest diappointment so far. He is slow and has had many costly giveaways. He plays, like most Europeans, with no heart.
Nice generalisation there but hes Canadian!

Brashear plays too much.

You want more cycling? I remember when the Flyers used to cycle it until the lost the puck, it was boring as hell and got nowhere. I prefer them to shoot.

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11-15-2005, 05:39 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Brad
Johnsson's not playing as well as he has in the past, but he's been getting better the last few games. I expect him to get back to his old self before too long.

Rathje's been good IMO. He's limited by what he can do, but he's still a solid defender.
His giveaways have been at the most opportune time and with drastic results. Two games the other team scores some late goals to cost us. A couple of other times nothing happened but what is it about doing it under pressure like that? Is he crappy under pressure? He gave one away to Brind A Mour who tied it up and the Canes went on to win that game. How does Carolina score 5 goals in the third period when we go into it ahead 5-3? Rathje had a few in that game.

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11-15-2005, 05:41 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Steve L
Nice generalisation there but hes Canadian!

Brashear plays too much.

You want more cycling? I remember when the Flyers used to cycle it until the lost the puck, it was boring as hell and got nowhere. I prefer them to shoot.
I know he's Canadian, I'm saying he plays like most Europeans.

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11-15-2005, 05:46 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by tytech
His giveaways have been at the most opportune time and with drastic results. Two games the other team scores some late goals to cost us. A couple of other times nothing happened but what is it about doing it under pressure like that? Is he crappy under pressure? He gave one away to Brind A Mour who tied it up and the Canes went on to win that game. How does Carolina score 5 goals in the third period when we go into it ahead 5-3? Rathje had a few in that game.
NHL players have bad games too.

Therien plays defense like Hellen Keller.

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Old
11-15-2005, 05:48 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Nice generalisation there but hes Canadian!

Brashear plays too much.

You want more cycling? I remember when the Flyers used to cycle it until the lost the puck, it was boring as hell and got nowhere. I prefer them to shoot.
Then you don't understand the dynamics of hockey. It's all about pressure and momentum. I'd much rather have some quality shots even if there is less of them then people shooting into the crest of the goalie for an easy save. Which team gains momentum off a crappy shot? The team who shot the puck or the team that saved the puck dumped it to the defensman who then turned it up for a rush of their own?

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11-15-2005, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Then you don't understand the dynamics of hockey. It's all about pressure and momentum. I'd much rather have some quality shots even if there is less of them then people shooting into the crest of the goalie for an easy save. Which team gains momentum off a crappy shot? The team who shot the puck or the team that saved the puck dumped it to the defensman who then turned it up for a rush of their own?
I understand it fine, I dont want to go back to endlessly cycling the puck untill its turned over which then leads to a quality chance the other way as the 3 forwards are trapped.

Id rather the team shoot, you never know what will happen and theres always a chance of a juicy rebound as Esche proves night after night.

Leave it to the skilless guys to cycle, not players like Gagne or Carter.

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11-15-2005, 06:12 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Then you don't understand the dynamics of hockey. It's all about pressure and momentum. I'd much rather have some quality shots even if there is less of them then people shooting into the crest of the goalie for an easy save. Which team gains momentum off a crappy shot? The team who shot the puck or the team that saved the puck dumped it to the defensman who then turned it up for a rush of their own?
Cycling = passing the puck around in the offensive zone, waiting for the perfect opening, possibly turning it over, resulting in an odd-man rush for the opposing team.

Cycling also = plays run by the 3rd and 4th line to chew up clock so that the 1st and 2nd liners get some rest.

Shooting the puck = actually creating chances since shots can result in rebounds. Even crappy shots end up in the goalie's glove result in an offensive zone faceoff, thus creating more chances in the offensive zone.

Chris Therien is a turnover waiting to happen and should go to masquerade parties dressed as a revolving door.

John Sim is a nice 3rd/4th liner. A good mucker/grinder. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not overstate Sim by saying he is "awesome" and a "treat to watch". Guys like Gagne, Forsberg and Richards are treats to watch.

Mike Rathje is a +15. Just how much of a liability on the ice can he be? Yes, his offensive play is less than spectacular, but his defense is solid.

Jeff Carter is a rookie and is still getting his legs back after his bout with mono. He's not going to be a guy who has excellent board work. He isn't a mucker, he is a scorer who is going to score a lot of goals in this league.

Let me guess, your favorite Flyer line of all time is Jody Hull/Kent Manderville/Paul Ranheim and Trent Klatt is one of your all time faves?

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Old
11-15-2005, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com
.
Nice post, there were so many things wrong with the original post that I couldnt be bothered to go into depth with it but you summed it up. He even had a nerve to say I didnt understand hockey because I disagreed with him.

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11-15-2005, 07:06 PM
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Funny guy, complaining about Rathjes giveaways... Guess he's missed Pitkanen and Hatcher...

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11-15-2005, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
NHL players have bad games too.

Therien plays defense like Hellen Keller.
She was hot, what ever happened to the poor gal?

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11-15-2005, 07:44 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Carter has to learn how to cycle the puck. He has no grit or board work. As sson as he gets time he throws it at the net. Yes, he's flashy on the rush but he really has to learn how to do some board work. How can Richards, Sharp, Sim, Umberger and Radio challenge and Carter is either shooting it or losing it? The shots are from all angles and clearly the time to see if anyone is even there for a tip is not taken.
Carter is almost the same type of player that Gagne is, just with a bit more height. You think because he's 6'3" he should be a grinder? Carter is a finisher. He has speed and has a great shot. Why shouldn't he shoot the puck? You think dumping it off to Brashear in the corner and skating in a circle is going to get anything done? Come on dude, there's more to the game than cycling and "board work".

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11-15-2005, 09:49 PM
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Yeah Therien has been solid, I think he had 4 assists in the Tampa game.
We already know that Radio can't score, but don't try to tell us that he is any good
he sucks on the penalty kill, he's a large part of why the Flyers are last in the league in PKs. Every time the new Handzus line steps on the ice, my heart rate goes up and not for a good reason. As good as Zus is, this line still gives up too many goals and they aren't always playing against the top lines. Radio constantly caries the puck in the zone by himself with no possible scoring chance, turns it over or takes a weak shot that misses the net completely. If Brashear was set up the way Savage has been, he'd probably have 5 goals, that is how bad Savage has been.

Desjardins(Jones or Meyer when healthy will also do) - in and Therien - out
Kapenen - in Savage - out
Stephenson - in Radio - out

With those three gone this team will be so much better, not to mention who is replacing them.

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11-15-2005, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyphan25
Yeah Therien has been solid, I think he had 4 assists in the Tampa game.
Seeing as the Flyers scored 2 goals, that'd be a pretty tough accomplishment.

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Old
11-15-2005, 10:44 PM
  #17
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Seeing as the Flyers scored 2 goals, that'd be a pretty tough accomplishment.
You'd think so, but it's not difficult. He assisted on at least a couple of Tampa's goals.

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Old
11-15-2005, 10:47 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
Rathje has been the biggest diappointment so far. He is slow and has had many costly giveaways.
He's +15, which is the third best plus/minus in the entire league.

Quote:
He plays, like most Europeans, with no heart.
Just like Shjon Podein.

Geez, you should really edit that, tytech. I'm not against the theme of your post (actually, I don't really have much to complain about when it comes to this team), but Rathje is about as far from European-born as an NHL player can get.

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Old
11-16-2005, 08:46 AM
  #19
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Radio should not be out. I'd give Umberger some rest see what he has next season
If anyting Brashear should be sent hom for a few games put him on IR or something.

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11-16-2005, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by greatwhite101
Radio should not be out. I'd give Umberger some rest see what he has next season
If anyting Brashear should be sent hom for a few games put him on IR or something.
Radio does need to sit and hopefully it gets him going. Like a prev post said he canít score, not helping on the pk and he is bringing nothing to the table.
Not sure what you mean by Umberger should get some rest and see what he has next season? He deserves more time than Savage,Branko and Brashear and I would have no problem putting him on a line with Carter and Sharpe. The one problem that creates is no center for the 4th line which would be Brashear/Radio/Savage but since they only deserve 10 minutes a night they could get by.

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11-16-2005, 10:17 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by stanley
Just like Shjon Podein.
Uhh, Stan, he's from Minnesota. Rochester, specifically. See here: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php3?pid=4325. And if this is just my sarcasm meter needing adjustment, well, ok, I'll feel sheepish. Otherwise, you'll need to pick a different Euro. Say, Peter Forsberg.

As for the opening post, I must say I disagree with some of his points. I do like the play of Sim and Savage, although I wish Savage could finish some of the good chances he's had. They're both high energy players, and as pointed out, at least Savage seems to hustle. Brashear is useless. He's not fighting, he's barely hitting, and he has trouble skating and staying upright. He needs to go. Therien is, well, Therien. Although he's actually made some decent plays this year (I think I even saw him hit a guy during the Tampa game), he's made some absolutely horrible turnovers and still gets confused in the defensive zone entirely too often. Pairing him with Seidenberg has been scary, as well, since I don't think Dennis has played all that great, either. Too small, gets knocked off the puck too easy, and he can't maintain position on a lot of the forwards since they're so much bigger than him.

The cycling thing...well, I'm a bit torn. I do like the momentum that cycling seems to build, and how it seems to wear the D down a bit. However, it also does not produce shots or scoring chances on its own. The forwards need to do something with the puck eventually, and thus why I have no real issues with Carter's walking the puck out and shooting. I actually like the fact that he's willing to take shots from anywhere. Shows good confidence in his shot, and an understanding that things only happen when the puck is being put on the net. I've been impressed with his improvement since the start of the season. Now, if he could play with wingers who could pass and create opportunities for him, that would be even better.

And for god's sake, can the Flyers start winning some faceoffs? They got utterly dominated by Tampa the other night. At one point it was 24-11 for Tampa. That's completely unacceptable. It's not helping the powerplay, and it certainly isn't helping the penalty kill. This needs to be turned around, and soon. There's my little pet peeve right now.

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11-16-2005, 10:36 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by NWO
Radio does need to sit and hopefully it gets him going. Like a prev post said he canít score, not helping on the pk and he is bringing nothing to the table.
Not sure what you mean by Umberger should get some rest and see what he has next season? He deserves more time than Savage,Branko and Brashear and I would have no problem putting him on a line with Carter and Sharpe. The one problem that creates is no center for the 4th line which would be Brashear/Radio/Savage but since they only deserve 10 minutes a night they could get by.
Umberger will be sent down. Unless Savage or Branko or Brashear get traded. Name me one players with exception of Handzus and Gagne that helps on PK. The whole team is horrible.

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11-16-2005, 11:22 AM
  #23
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[QUOTE=greatwhite101]Umberger will be sent down. Unless Savage or Branko or Brashear get traded. Name me one players with exception of Handzus and Gagne that helps on PK. The whole team is horrible.[/QUOTE

Why do we not see Simm and Forsberg killing penalties? Simm is one of the high energy guys. Is it because of the fear that he might be too agressive thus giving up a 5 on 3?

Forsberg not killing penalties is weird as well. H's so calm and collected that he would get the puck out of the zone as soon as it landed on his stick.

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11-16-2005, 11:25 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Nacho


Funny guy, complaining about Rathjes giveaways... Guess he's missed Pitkanen and Hatcher...
Ok, so lets fault Pitkanen for some giveaways when the youngster is trying to build confidence in an offensive aspect. Hatcher gives the puck away in a non-harmful scenario. I don't give a hoot about Rathje's numbers. I've watched all the games and he is the one who has given the puck away the most when resulting in the other teams scoring. He is the one who would rather challenge for a puck instead of skating to and winning a race for it. Most of the time it works, but more than any other flyer it has costed us some goals.

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11-16-2005, 11:39 AM
  #25
tytech
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com
Cycling = passing the puck around in the offensive zone, waiting for the perfect opening, possibly turning it over, resulting in an odd-man rush for the opposing team.

Cycling also = plays run by the 3rd and 4th line to chew up clock so that the 1st and 2nd liners get some rest.

Shooting the puck = actually creating chances since shots can result in rebounds. Even crappy shots end up in the goalie's glove result in an offensive zone faceoff, thus creating more chances in the offensive zone.

Chris Therien is a turnover waiting to happen and should go to masquerade parties dressed as a revolving door.

John Sim is a nice 3rd/4th liner. A good mucker/grinder. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not overstate Sim by saying he is "awesome" and a "treat to watch". Guys like Gagne, Forsberg and Richards are treats to watch.

Mike Rathje is a +15. Just how much of a liability on the ice can he be? Yes, his offensive play is less than spectacular, but his defense is solid.

Jeff Carter is a rookie and is still getting his legs back after his bout with mono. He's not going to be a guy who has excellent board work. He isn't a mucker, he is a scorer who is going to score a lot of goals in this league.

Let me guess, your favorite Flyer line of all time is Jody Hull/Kent Manderville/Paul Ranheim and Trent Klatt is one of your all time faves?

Cycling--It's not an odd man rush if you do it porperly. There is never three offensive players cycling behind the net or red line. There is two and always a man high ready to either take a pass or cut off a pass if it's lost in the boards.

If you think cycling the puck is for 3/4 liners you really don't know how the majority of the goals are scored. You think they are all rushes and highlight goals? They are grit goals. Forsberg and Gagne have scored grit goals, sakic, Hejduk, Jagr, Nash, Alfredsson, Lindros, Leclair, etc all have gritty lines. You never see three players of 5-9 or under scoring goals in huge numbers. You have to be able to cycle well with your teammates. This is what produces mayhem and then quality scoring changes. I'm all for shooting the puck but wait until there is traffic. Don't do it if there is no-one there or because you don't want to cycle. Nice comment about shooting the puck makes the goalie freeze it which, in turn, creates offensive end faceoffs. We are excellent at faceoffs aren't we

Carter--If you don't believe me about the cycling I guarantee you Hitch will coach Carter on how to cycle before he puts him with speedy wingers or flashy players so he can score off rushes.

Simm--If you have a hard time reading, in my post I said Simm was a treat to watch considering what we got him for. I had no idea of the grit or tenacity that he would bring to this team and he's helping put numbers up as well. Hitch got him for a reason so if you don't see what I see and what Hitch sees, take it up with Snider.

Rathje--I didn't say he was terrible I said he would rather challenge for the puck instead of skating for it and being there first. Yes, he's good. Yes, I'm glad he's a flyer. I also know he has turned the puck over which resulted in goals more than any other flyer.

'nough said!

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