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Who is the best player in the NHL?

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Old
10-13-2003, 02:15 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillmanfan61
Forsberg is overrated, thornton is a better player. lidstrom is a great defenseman, not the best player in the league. and dont make me laugh with the fedorov > naslund talk. Naslund is MVP quality, not a floater with a nose for the net. watch fedorovs stock drop during his anaheim tenure, he rode a powerhouse detroit team to stardom.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????

This was a tounge in cheek post right?

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Old
10-13-2003, 06:25 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillmanfan61
Forsberg is overrated, thornton is a better player. lidstrom is a great defenseman, not the best player in the league. and dont make me laugh with the fedorov > naslund talk. Naslund is MVP quality, not a floater with a nose for the net. watch fedorovs stock drop during his anaheim tenure, he rode a powerhouse detroit team to stardom.
oh this is rich.. however you are a stillman fan, so we'll just leave you be

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Old
10-13-2003, 06:39 PM
  #53
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in the last five years, 71 of his 192 goals have been on the powerplay... he feeds off the powerplay..

also, strictly offense shouldn't be all that is looked at here..

there is no way on earth naslund should be considered a better *player* then for instance, mike modano to name one imo

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Old
10-13-2003, 06:51 PM
  #54
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lol well now that you guys have systematically torn apart my first post, i am back to supply you with more laughter.

The best player in the nhl right now far and away is mario. maybe not as defensively minded as forsberg, but it doesnt matter. the best defense is a good offense, and marios offensive talent is so amazing in every game he plays....plus his supporting cast is made up of morozov and straka instead of sakic hejduk kariya tanguay blake morris and selanne.

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Old
10-13-2003, 06:57 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
I wonder if someone could get me the scoring leaders even strength. Then see how high Naslund is.
just to add, last year he scored 54 of his 104 points on the powerplay, year before 31 of his 90, and 34 of his 75 the year before.. 25 of his 65 the year before that, and finally 28 of his 66 the year before that...

last five years, 172 of 400 pts on the PP, or 43 %

let's take forsberg for example...

last year, 33 of 106 on the pp, year before that he didn't play, 36 of 89 the year before that, 15 of 51 the year before, 37 of 97, or, 121 of 343 on the pp, or 35 %


that's almost 10 percent difference.. pretty big..

since 1998, joe sakic has been the top scorer in points with 436.. let's do him :p..

in short, 147 of those 436 on the pp, or 33 %...

next guy from sakic was kovalev with 432 pts since 98.. 161 of those 432 on the pp, 37 %.. and in third we have modano, since 98 having 410 pts, 136 on the PP, or 33%.. in fourth was naslund, and in fifth is is kariya with 396 pts since 98, with 170 of them on the PP.. 42 %..

it looks like kariya and naslund match up better, as softer more offensively gifted players that thrive when they have some extra space to move around..

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Old
10-13-2003, 07:01 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora's box
it looks like kariya and naslund match up better, as softer more offensively gifted players that thrive when they have some extra space to move around..
....and struggle to score when it really counts.

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Old
10-13-2003, 07:29 PM
  #57
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I still don't understand how scoring on the PP is a drawback...

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Old
10-13-2003, 07:40 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
I still don't understand how scoring on the PP is a drawback...
I think it has to do with the fact that the PP is a way for some players to rack up points by sitting in front of the net (Andreychuk), or coming off the side-boards or something. The best players can take over a game at any time. THey can score at any time. As well, most people want this player to make multiple contributions, like defence or physical play.

There are many reasons I can come up with on top of that. No major reasons, but it is just less impressive to score on the powerplay than at even strength. Also, for Naslund, that means he's out there with the best players on his team for about a minute if not more. That is an added bonus, although he plays on a stacked line anyways.

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Old
10-13-2003, 07:55 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossa
I think it has to do with the fact that the PP is a way for some players to rack up points by sitting in front of the net (Andreychuk), or coming off the side-boards or something. The best players can take over a game at any time. THey can score at any time. As well, most people want this player to make multiple contributions, like defence or physical play.

There are many reasons I can come up with on top of that. No major reasons, but it is just less impressive to score on the powerplay than at even strength. Also, for Naslund, that means he's out there with the best players on his team for about a minute if not more. That is an added bonus, although he plays on a stacked line anyways.
I agree with all of this. I happen to think PP scoring is not as impressive as ET but only moderately so.

The reason being that a 1 man advaantage is not truly a one man advantage in hockey right now. A REAL man advantage would be just that: you put someone in the box and keep the same hockey rules. That's not what we have here. Right now the "penalized" team is given permission to ice the puck to the other end without any consequences.

I can garantee you there are some players out there who feel just as secure on the PK than equal time. They don't have to make that precise pass to clear their zone, they just dump it as far as they can. It's not rocket science and some people are REALLY good at it.

By the same token, not every good offensive player will be equally good as a PP guy. It's a real science and some teams, coaches and players are simply MUCH better at it than others.

Gimme a REAL PP situation and I would have less respect for PP points than I have right now. I don't consider them as valuable as 5-5 points but it's closer than one might think, IMHO.

So really, penalties in the NHL do put the team at a slight disadvantage but it's more of a *different game* than just stricly a disadvantage because the penalized teams has extra rights no one else ever has.

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Old
10-15-2003, 04:43 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillmanfan61
lol well now that you guys have systematically torn apart my first post, i am back to supply you with more laughter.

The best player in the nhl right now far and away is mario. maybe not as defensively minded as forsberg, but it doesnt matter. the best defense is a good offense, and marios offensive talent is so amazing in every game he plays....plus his supporting cast is made up of morozov and straka instead of sakic hejduk kariya tanguay blake morris and selanne.
Haha, youreally did deliver those laughs your promised. Mario is the best player in the world if you discount the fact that defense exists. Lidstrom andForsberg are 1-2 because they both do everything.

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Old
10-15-2003, 08:59 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onearmedbandit14
Haha, youreally did deliver those laughs your promised. Mario is the best player in the world if you discount the fact that defense exists. Lidstrom andForsberg are 1-2 because they both do everything.
Do you realize Mario can be the best PKer in the entire league?
Where have you come to the idea that Mario was bad defensively?
Because he's so brilliant offensively?
Well let me tell you being good offensively doesn't mean being bad defensively.
Mario is seriously underrated defensively.
And of course nobody comes close to his offense.

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Old
10-15-2003, 09:28 AM
  #62
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Some people are still stuck in a 2001-02 timewarp when Lemieux was not able to skate because of his hip.

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Old
10-15-2003, 11:10 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masao
Some people are still stuck in a 2001-02 timewarp when Lemieux was not able to skate because of his hip.
Some people don't realize Mario hasn't led the NHL in scoring since 1997, either. His 3 years back have padded his total stats a bit, but lowered his PPG average a lot. By next season he'll be below Gretzky again. IF he plays enough games!

Mario WAS a great talent (I hate him, but he WAS good). He is now a one-dimentional player, who floats. Gee, hard to score from the side of the net on the power play when the refs are protecting you, eh Mario?

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Old
10-15-2003, 12:20 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Do you realize Mario can be the best PKer in the entire league?
Where have you come to the idea that Mario was bad defensively?
Because he's so brilliant offensively?
Well let me tell you being good offensively doesn't mean being bad defensively.
Mario is seriously underrated defensively.
And of course nobody comes close to his offense.
I see about 50 Pens games a year, and Mario is absolutly lost defensively.

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10-15-2003, 08:29 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Some people don't realize Mario hasn't led the NHL in scoring since 1997, either. His 3 years back have padded his total stats a bit, but lowered his PPG average a lot. By next season he'll be below Gretzky again. IF he plays enough games!

Mario WAS a great talent (I hate him, but he WAS good). He is now a one-dimentional player, who floats. Gee, hard to score from the side of the net on the power play when the refs are protecting you, eh Mario?
Oh and he's also the guy that has the best PPG average in the league since his return...
Makes you wonder how you come up with the conclusion he's a floater.

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Old
10-15-2003, 08:31 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onearmedbandit14
I see about 50 Pens games a year, and Mario is absolutly lost defensively.
Buy some glasses.
Mario when on the PK for instance is a beast.

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Old
10-15-2003, 08:51 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin
Seriously, Paul Kariya. If not him, then Lidstrom.
Kariya.....oh yah, wasn't he that captain that didn't show up for the playoffs last year?

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Old
10-16-2003, 11:51 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onearmedbandit14
I see about 50 Pens games a year, and Mario is absolutly lost defensively.
I guess you did not see the game vs. Philly last Saturday....

Seconds left in the 3rd with a 3-3 tie, who was the guy sprawling in the slot to block a shot from the point??

Mike Lange, who I'm sure could be accused of homer-ism, but also knows hockey, has said, that if interested, Lemiuex could win the Selke.
In any given situation, offense, defense, PP, or PK, he can be the most dominant player on the ice.

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Old
10-16-2003, 01:23 PM
  #69
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The title of Best player is sort of deceiving as it leaves a lot to the opinion of the poster. If it was best offensive player: i think Nasland could be considered, but i think the intent was to say who is the best overall player in the NHL. To really make this question work for you, you have to decide who is the player you would want to build a team around right now to make a run for a stanley cup this season.

I think the contenders have all been noted but i think it breaks down to these 3 players. Personal preference would decide the winner imo

1) Peter foersberg
2) Nick lidstrom
3) Mike Modano

They are all superb offensive players who take care of their own end very well.

The rest of the palyers listed are great players, but they do not bring the comlete game that these 3 do.

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Old
10-17-2003, 05:17 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woobie82
I guess you did not see the game vs. Philly last Saturday....

Seconds left in the 3rd with a 3-3 tie, who was the guy sprawling in the slot to block a shot from the point??

Mike Lange, who I'm sure could be accused of homer-ism, but also knows hockey, has said, that if interested, Lemiuex could win the Selke.
In any given situation, offense, defense, PP, or PK, he can be the most dominant player on the ice.
Good to know that "if it interests him" he can play defense. I would think that it should probably interest him with that team he is on now. It might interest him to keep his 18 year old goalie from being pelted by vulcanized rubber 40 times a night. The fact that it doesn't interest him means that there is nothing to show me that he is a good defensive player. He should follow more in the Modano/Fedorov mold if he can play such great defense. He can score and still play D. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. So why is it that defense has never interested him?

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Old
10-17-2003, 05:37 PM
  #71
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The 'best' player in the NHL.

How do you define best? Is best the best all-around player? The best player at his position? The player who exemplifies qualities both on and off the ice? The player whose play elevates all those players around him?

They are all completely distinct questions and each answer given in this thread could be taken completely seriously and have attached a strong argument.

Forsberg is quite probably the best all-around forward. Lidstrom makes the fewest mistakes in hockey. Brodeur wins games by himself. Fedorov is a complete game-breaker.

But the best? It's such a nebulous concept. I think I'm going to answer by looking at that last definition: the player who elevates all those around him.

Take a quick look around the NHL and the answer, for me, is quite simple. Forsberg plays on a great team. So do most of the others mentioned in the thread. Then there's Mario.

Ahh Mario. Who plays for an AHL calibre team. Let's be honest here, would that team be able to compete successfully in the NHL if it weren't for Mario? He has two goalies, including one he allowed to stay at his house and soak up some knowledge. He has a defense corps led by...Dick Tarnstrom (I'm sure there are one or two reading this thinking, "Who?"). They have the oft-injured Straka. And after that, what?

Would anyone other than Morozov and *maybe* one or two others make it elsewhere?

How about this question: should this team finish anywhere other than last? Seriously now, look at that lineup and tell me it's not Ovechkin quality.

Mario elevates. People playing with him become so much more than they really are. Sure, he doesn't play defence, but he elevates his defence, because players want to be everything and more for him.

Take an AHL club - and not a good one - and put Mario on it. I'll put money on that team still winning games at the NHL level. Forsberg is good, so are Lidstrom, Brodeur and those others mentioned. But none of them can do what Mario can.

A concerned fan.

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Old
10-17-2003, 07:35 PM
  #72
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My top 5 in order:

1 Forsberg
2 Lidstrom
3 Lemieux
4 Thornton
5 Brodeur

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Old
10-17-2003, 07:59 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOMO_ROCKS
My top 5 in order:

1 Forsberg
2 Lidstrom
3 Lemieux
4 Thornton
5 Brodeur
take brodeur out and put naslund in, and i like your list

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Old
10-17-2003, 08:04 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticallion961
take brodeur out and put naslund in, and i like your list
nah, Brodeur deserves to be top 5(3 rings, and he is the best goalie in the game today)....In fact I would take Bertuzzi over Naslund just not over Brodeur

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Old
10-17-2003, 08:19 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOMO_ROCKS
nah, Brodeur deserves to be top 5(3 rings, and he is the best goalie in the game today)....In fact I would take Bertuzzi over Naslund just not over Brodeur
i disagree...brodeur is the best goalie today, but naslund does it all.

as for the naslund/bertuzzi debate, kind of a toss up, i'd take naslund, but a lot would disagree, its all about opinion

great list none the less though

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