HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

1976 NHL Coaches Poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2005, 08:05 PM
  #1
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 500
1976 NHL Coaches Poll

I was researching some newspaper articles from the mid 70s when I came across this article. It was a poll of NHL coaches conducted in Feb. 1976 choosing the best NHL players in 25 different categories. Being a huge fan of 70s hockey, I thought I`d post the results here in case anyone was interested.

Keep in mind that at this point Bobby Orr`s future was in doubt, so he wasn`t as much of a factor here as he otherwise would have been. There`s a few names here that come as a surprise. Rick Martin was very highly regarded at the time and Stan Mikita was past his prime but still commanded a lot of respect.

The big story here though, is Bobby Clarke as his name shows up again and again. A lot of people have forgotten just how great he was.

Keep in mind that these choices were made by the coaches, who would probably know more than the writers who select most awards:

Most underrated: Curt Bennett

Best Shot: Rick Martin

Hardest Shot: Dennis Hull

Best Stickhandler: Stan Mikita

Best Penalty Killer: Bobby Clarke

Best Skater: Bobby Orr

Fastest Skater: Yvan Cournoyer

Best Checker: Bobby Clarke

Best Referee: Lloyd Gilmour

Best on Faceoffs: Bobby Clarke

Best Fighter: Dan Maloney

Most Dangerous in Goal Area: Rick Martin

Best Coach: Al Arbour

Smartest Player: Stan Mikita

Best Bodychecker: Hilliard Graves

Hardest Worker: Bobby Clarke

Best Defensive Defenceman: Larry Robinson

Best Goalie: Ken Dryden

Best Player under 23 years old: Pierre Larouche

Best Playmaker: Bobby Clarke

Most Improved: Walt McKechnie

Most Colourful: Gil Perreault

Best Rookie: Bryan Trottier

Most Valuable Player: Bobby Clarke

First Player You`d Choose Starting a Team From Scratch: Bobby Clarke

reckoning is offline  
Old
11-14-2005, 08:07 PM
  #2
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
fun read, reckoning

thanks

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
11-14-2005, 09:04 PM
  #3
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 20,052
vCash: 500
Hummm.... interesting.
But actually : UTTER GARBAGE.

Look at the standings for 1975-76 and the 4 years following.

Aaahheemmm... Don Cherry & Fred Shero were coaches in these days, right?

MXD is offline  
Old
11-15-2005, 12:20 AM
  #4
jiggs 10
Registered User
 
jiggs 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hockeytown, ND
Country: United States
Posts: 3,541
vCash: 500
Well, I would agree with a few of the choices here (Orr, Robinson, Dryden, Larouche, Trottier, Hull & Perreault), but some of the others are jokes! Bobby CLarke? Walt McKechnie? Hilliard Graves?

Names from the past to be sure, but certainly not names who should be mentioned in a "best-of" list.

Remember, Don Cherry was actually considered one of the top coaches of that time, so...

jiggs 10 is offline  
Old
11-15-2005, 12:28 AM
  #5
Higgy4
Registered User
 
Higgy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Well, I would agree with a few of the choices here (Orr, Robinson, Dryden, Larouche, Trottier, Hull & Perreault), but some of the others are jokes! Bobby CLarke? Walt McKechnie? Hilliard Graves?

Names from the past to be sure, but certainly not names who should be mentioned in a "best-of" list.

Remember, Don Cherry was actually considered one of the top coaches of that time, so...
Well, technically Walt McKechnie was voted Most Improved. Not necessarily a "Best of" anything.

Higgy4 is offline  
Old
11-15-2005, 07:52 AM
  #6
BM67
Registered User
 
BM67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In "The System"
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Wow. Bobby Clarke, who was leading the league in +/-, assists and maybe points, was on his way to a third Hart in 4 years, while playing for the two-time defending Cup winner, doesn't deserve to be mentioned as one of the better players in 1976?

Compare Forsberg in 2002-03 with Bobby Clarke in 1975-76

Clarke GP 76 G 30 A 89 PTS 119 +/- 83 PIM 136 PPG 10 SHG 4 GWG 2 GTG 1
Forsberg GP 75 G 29 A 77 PTS 106 +/- 52 PIM 70 PPG 8 SHG 0 GWG 2 GTG 0

Raw +/-
Clarke TGF 164 PPGF 59 OFF 105 TGA 52 PPGA 30 DEF 22 +/- 83
Forsberg TGF 138 PPGF 44 OFF 94 TGA 42 PPGA 0 DEF 42 +/- 52

BM67 is offline  
Old
11-15-2005, 01:59 PM
  #7
Higgy4
Registered User
 
Higgy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,548
vCash: 500
Clarke was great. I have no beef at all with his name being all over that list.

Higgy4 is offline  
Old
11-15-2005, 06:46 PM
  #8
Chili
Registered User
 
Chili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: la Belle Province
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 1,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
Hardest Shot: Dennis Hull
I don't think he is mentioned often enough because of who his brother was but Dennis Hull was a good player himself who did have a heckuva slapper...several all star game appearances and 300 goals.

Edit: Great sense of humour too...He has a book called "The Third Best Hull: I Should Have Been Fourth but They Wouldn't Let My Sister Maxine Play".


Last edited by Chili: 11-15-2005 at 07:10 PM.
Chili is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 12:48 AM
  #9
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67
Wow. Bobby Clarke, who was leading the league in +/-, assists and maybe points, was on his way to a third Hart in 4 years, while playing for the two-time defending Cup winner, doesn't deserve to be mentioned as one of the better players in 1976?

Compare Forsberg in 2002-03 with Bobby Clarke in 1975-76

Clarke GP 76 G 30 A 89 PTS 119 +/- 83 PIM 136 PPG 10 SHG 4 GWG 2 GTG 1
Forsberg GP 75 G 29 A 77 PTS 106 +/- 52 PIM 70 PPG 8 SHG 0 GWG 2 GTG 0

Raw +/-
Clarke TGF 164 PPGF 59 OFF 105 TGA 52 PPGA 30 DEF 22 +/- 83
Forsberg TGF 138 PPGF 44 OFF 94 TGA 42 PPGA 0 DEF 42 +/- 52
+/- stats are not worth the cyberspace they are written on.

Ogopogo* is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 09:24 AM
  #10
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD
UTTER GARBAGE.

Look at the standings for 1975-76 and the 4 years following.

Aaahheemmm... Don Cherry & Fred Shero were coaches in these days, right?
When I printed this I didn`t think it would inspire such anger. Sorry.

Yes, Fred Shero and Don Cherry were coaches back then. Great coaches. What`s your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Well, I would agree with a few of the choices here (Orr, Robinson, Dryden, Larouche, Trottier, Hull & Perreault), but some of the others are jokes! Bobby CLarke? Walt McKechnie? Hilliard Graves?
You`d consider Pierre Larouche a great player, but not Bobby Clarke?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67
Raw +/-
Clarke TGF 164 PPGF 59 OFF 105 TGA 52 PPGA 30 DEF 22 +/- 83
Forsberg TGF 138 PPGF 44 OFF 94 TGA 42 PPGA 0 DEF 42 +/- 52
Plus/minus marks from the 70s are a little inflated due to the lack of parity, but Clarke`s numbers are still impressive after any era adjustments. The thing I never understood about Forsberg`s `03 MVP year was that everyone always talked about how he was one of the best defensive forwards around. If he was so great defensively, how come Colorado never used him on the penalty kill that year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili
I don't think he is mentioned often enough because of who his brother was but Dennis Hull was a good player himself who did have a heckuva slapper...several all star game appearances and 300 goals.
Dennis Hull`s shot was every bit as hard and lethal as Bobby`s. The main difference was that Bobby would usually hit the net while Dennis would miss the net and hit the boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
+/- stats are not worth the cyberspace they are written on.
No statistic is perfect. Goals and assists aren`t perfect because it doesn`t take into account how good a player`s linemates are or how defensively oriented his team may be. Save percentage isn`t perfect because it doesn`t take into account quality of shots or how a goalie is at key moments of the game. The number of Stanley Cups a player won isn`t perfect because it doesn`t consider how good his teammates were or how much he contributed. Award winning isn`t perfect because there`s often a lot of bias and politics at work from the writers (did you see the interview on the Score awhile back where a baseball writer admitted that he never voted for Gary Carter, not because of his play, but because he didn`t get along with him?)

Does that mean we throw away all those statistics because of that? No. You have to look at the entire picture. Same with plus/minus. It`s not perfect, and you have to consider a lot of factors, but it still tells you a lot. When good defensive defencemen like Bill White, Bill Hajt, Brad McCrimmon, Scott Stevens, Keith Carney, etc. put up good +/- numbers year after year, it`s not just some coincidence.


Last edited by reckoning: 11-16-2005 at 09:31 AM.
reckoning is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 10:11 AM
  #11
brianscot
Registered User
 
brianscot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: portland, me
Posts: 1,328
vCash: 500
From my view, the coaches poll was very accurate.

Even the selection of Pierre Larouche as best player under 23 works because at that time, Pierre was in the midst of putting together his first 50 goal season on a bad Pittsburgh team.

Only later did he become lucky floating Pierre. Nobody ever questioned his talent.

I was never a Bobby Clarke fan, but the things he tops in (especially playmaking, face offs, and penalty killing) were all things he excelled in.

Beyond that, are we somehow supposed to believe that a poll of active coaches during that very season is inaccurate, while negative opinions 30 years later are more valid?

brianscot is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 12:20 PM
  #12
Chili
Registered User
 
Chili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: la Belle Province
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 1,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
Dennis Hull`s shot was every bit as hard and lethal as Bobby`s. The main difference was that Bobby would usually hit the net while Dennis would miss the net and hit the boards.
I can remember some claims that Dennis' shot was even harder than Bobby's though I never saw any actual test results comparing the two. Suffice to say though that they both had scary shots.

Chili is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 12:38 PM
  #13
Ludwig Fell Down
Registered User
 
Ludwig Fell Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South Shore, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianscot
Beyond that, are we somehow supposed to believe that a poll of active coaches during that very season is inaccurate, while negative opinions 30 years later are more valid?
Thanks for inserting some logic into the discussion. Of course, coaches had fewer or no assistants back then, so their opinions at the time are only worth .637 of a current coach's opinion.

Reconing, thanks for digging this up, I enjoyed the thread.

Ludwig Fell Down is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 12:42 PM
  #14
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianscot
Beyond that, are we somehow supposed to believe that a poll of active coaches during that very season is inaccurate, while negative opinions 30 years later are more valid?
A lot o people like to use revisionist history. They don`t like Bobby Clarke`s antics as a GM, so they use that bias against him when judging his playing career. Or they disagree with some of Don Cherry`s opinions on TV, so they say he was never a good coach. Or they look at how ineffective Eric Lindros was after the concussions, and forget about how great he was before them. Sometimes you have to go back in time to get a realistic picture.

reckoning is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 12:53 PM
  #15
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
A lot o people like to use revisionist history. They don`t like Bobby Clarke`s antics as a GM, so they use that bias against him when judging his playing career. Or they disagree with some of Don Cherry`s opinions on TV, so they say he was never a good coach. Or they look at how ineffective Eric Lindros was after the concussions, and forget about how great he was before them. Sometimes you have to go back in time to get a realistic picture.
A fun look back, thanks to one of the best posters on these boards. Well done, reckoning.

I've always thought Clarke doesn't get the respect he deserves. For my money, he's one of the ten best centres ever, and one of the top 25 or 30 players ever. One of the ultimate combinations of smarts, skills, heart, grit, defensive prowess, physical play and leadership in the history of the game. Yes, he can be a bit of an *** at times, and he rarely says the right thing at the right time (or does the right thing, for that matter), but there's no doubt the man is one of the greatest ever to play the game, and one of the most decorated players in NHL history.

God Bless Canada is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 03:37 PM
  #16
04' hockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: City of Brotherly Lo
Posts: 572
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
A fun look back, thanks to one of the best posters on these boards. Well done, reckoning.

I've always thought Clarke doesn't get the respect he deserves. For my money, he's one of the ten best centres ever, and one of the top 25 or 30 players ever. One of the ultimate combinations of smarts, skills, heart, grit, defensive prowess, physical play and leadership in the history of the game. Yes, he can be a bit of an *** at times, and he rarely says the right thing at the right time (or does the right thing, for that matter), but there's no doubt the man is one of the greatest ever to play the game, and one of the most decorated players in NHL history.
Knowledgable post.....jiggs10, so much for your hockey IQ.
Ask the mighty ORR about Bob Clarke! Unlike MANY stars of today Clarke played to win games and NOT to make $. If he played today he would be just as good. If Orr played today he'd be the best, no question.

04' hockey is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 04:54 PM
  #17
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Well, I would agree with a few of the choices here (Orr, Robinson, Dryden, Larouche, Trottier, Hull & Perreault), but some of the others are jokes! Bobby CLarke? Walt McKechnie? Hilliard Graves?

Names from the past to be sure, but certainly not names who should be mentioned in a "best-of" list.

Remember, Don Cherry was actually considered one of the top coaches of that time, so...
Bobby Clarke was a two time MVP BTW.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline  
Old
11-16-2005, 11:33 PM
  #18
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe
Bobby Clarke was a two time MVP BTW.
Actually a 3 time Hart trophy winner.

Here is a list of players that have won the Hart Trophy more times than Bobby Clarke:

Wayne Gretzky (9)
Gordie Howe (6)
Eddie Shore (4)

The end. Thanks for coming Jiggs.

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:18 AM
  #19
barfy2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Actually a 3 time Hart trophy winner.

Here is a list of players that have won the Hart Trophy more times than Bobby Clarke:

Wayne Gretzky (9)
Gordie Howe (6)
Eddie Shore (4)

The end. Thanks for coming Jiggs.
wow. i thought lemieux would have more than 2. he did deserve that one in 89-90 i think it was? thats another story...but good point. bobby clarke doesnt get the (should i call it respect? haha maybe recognition is a better word) he deserves. tremendous hockey player if there ever was one.

and to see eddie shore on there just reasserts the fact that he is one of the best ever.

barfy2000 is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:23 AM
  #20
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barfy2000
wow. i thought lemieux would have more than 2. he did deserve that one in 89-90 i think it was? thats another story...but good point. bobby clarke doesnt get the (should i call it respect? haha maybe recognition is a better word) he deserves. tremendous hockey player if there ever was one.

and to see eddie shore on there just reasserts the fact that he is one of the best ever.
Lemieux, Clarke, Orr and Howie Morenz each won 3 Hart trophies.

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:54 AM
  #21
barfy2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Lemieux, Clarke, Orr and Howie Morenz each won 3 Hart trophies.

my bad. i meant to put 3. typo.

barfy2000 is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 01:37 AM
  #22
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 26,524
vCash: 500
In 1976, on the heels of captaining the Flyers to three straight Cup Finals (winining two), and in his prime, Bobby Clarke was easily one of the very best in the game, and I'd argue, the most complete player. He was overtaken in that category shortly thereafter by Bryan Trottier.

Anyone denying his place in the game at that time either wasn't around, or is still harboring a ridiculous bias 30 years later.

Trottier is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 04:51 AM
  #23
Marcus-74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 165
vCash: 500
Isnīt Clarke that guy who chopped off Valerie Kharma Chameleonīs legs off with an axe during the Cold War II? Oh, heīs just crap, isnīt he?

Iīm not so sure he is an "all-time player" in a sense that he would have made it in any era, but itīs quite amazing that some still donīt give him any credit... Clarke was a great playmaker with "quick mind" (if he saw you open, he would get you the puck; ask Barber, Leach or even Paul Henderson [inī72] etc.), won face-offs, worked like hell and was one the first who had "an office" behind the goal (I believe Gretzky called him a forerunner in his book).


Last edited by Marcus-74: 11-17-2005 at 04:58 AM.
Marcus-74 is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 07:35 PM
  #24
justsomeguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Don't know which Hull had the heavier shot. I remember seeing Dennis break the plexi-glas with his, something I never saw Bobby do.

justsomeguy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2014 All Rights Reserved.