HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Notices

Ottawa / Florida Trade Proposal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-17-2005, 11:37 AM
  #1
bill_thothi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 13
vCash: 500
Ottawa / Florida Trade Proposal

I posted this on the Trade rumors board. What do you guys think? Doug Weight would be nice, but I think he is too expensive for us.


To Florida: Brian Smolinski, Vaclav Varada, 3rd Round Pick (or lower level prospect)

To Ottawa: Olli Jokinen, Niklas Hagman

Jokinen is a UFA at the end of the season, and it might be difficult for the Panthers to sign him, especially if their priorty is Luongo. Smolinski has another year on his contract (at 2M) and can play all three positions and can help a very young Panther team.

Varada needs a change of scenery and would excel in a Jacques Martin system. He is an UFA at the end of this season. Hagman would be a perfect fit on the fourth line with Chris Kelly and Brian McGrattan.

Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson
Schaefer-Jokinen-Havlat
Vermette-Fisher-Neil
Hagman-Kelly-McGrattan/Eaves

bill_thothi is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 11:39 AM
  #2
The Lehner
;)
 
The Lehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,297
vCash: 500
I like your trade idea...however, I doubt that Mike Keenan and Florida would go for it. How would they benefit from this trade?

The Lehner is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 11:40 AM
  #3
CheeseSandwich*
 
CheeseSandwich*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Gloucester
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,738
vCash: 500
Interesting.

Jokinen is definitly an upgrade on Vermette. But to my knowledge he has zero playoff experience, and seems moody at times.

What we don't need is another moody forward that can't get it done in the playoffs.

CheeseSandwich* is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 11:40 AM
  #4
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,566
vCash: 500
Like I said on the "prospects" board, there is no upside for Florida at all.

Not only do they pick up over 3 million in salaries, but they get 2 older guys with no potential or trade value in return.

Plus, Ottawa gets rid of 2 of the few true veterans we have left, leaving us with 1: Daniel Alfredsson.

NyQuil is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 11:45 AM
  #5
The Lehner
;)
 
The Lehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,297
vCash: 500
I think us Sens fans might have to realize that if we are going to go out and acquire a proven centremen to play with Havlat for the playoffs that the Sens are going to have to give up a player like Antoine Vermette or Brandon Bochenski or someone of that ilk - someone with upside and who doesn't have a large impact on the team's salary cap structure for the current and future. I fully support acquiring a second line centre a la Doug Weight, Jason Arnott or Olli Jokinen later on in the season because IMO it's going to be impossible to re-sign all of Chara, Redden, Spezza and Havlat next summer...however, we're not going to be able to simply dump Varada & Smolinski to acquire such a centreman. The trade values of both Smoke and Varada are next to nil at this point.

The Lehner is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 11:50 AM
  #6
swiftwin
#lalala
 
swiftwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,880
vCash: 500
Vermette + 2nd or 3rd round pick for Jokinen

swiftwin is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 11:59 AM
  #7
brucegarrioch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 866
vCash: 500
Echoing thoughts already expressed in this thread, I can't really see the incentive from a Florida Panthers perspective as neither Smolinski nor Varada add anything of significant value to their roster. More concretely, Florida is extracting top-line talent and replacing it with expensive third-line players.

Personally, I'd prefer Nathan Horton over Olli Jokinen; though, I haven't seen much of Jokinen in recent years.

brucegarrioch is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:10 PM
  #8
Release The Lehner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 871
vCash: 500
Where does Ottawa sign? This is a definate YES from an Ottawa standpoint.

For everyone who's talking about playoff experience and veteran leadership, that's ********. Jokinen gives us a better chance at winning over Smoke every day of the week. Plus after we've got Jokinen for this cheap we could use Bochenski to get a veteran "leader" later on if it's that important, I'm sure he'd get us a really good one.

Florida says NO to this one though. Way too lopsided.

If we're thinking of picking up a 2nd line center later on it's gonna cost Smolinski (as the salary evener) plus Bochenski and a 1st round pick. Go back and look at what players like Oates, and Leetch were worth. It's gonna cost us.

Release The Lehner is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:18 PM
  #9
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,566
vCash: 500
So, is Jokinen higher on the desired list than Weight?

I'm guessing he's more difficult to pry away given his age and smaller contract.

NyQuil is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:19 PM
  #10
J17 Vs Proclamation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Reading.
Country: South Korea
Posts: 7,758
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to J17 Vs Proclamation
Quote:
Originally Posted by BG
Echoing thoughts already expressed in this thread, I can't really see the incentive from a Florida Panthers perspective as neither Smolinski nor Varada add anything of significant value to their roster. More concretely, Florida is extracting top-line talent and replacing it with expensive third-line players.

Personally, I'd prefer Nathan Horton over Olli Jokinen; though, I haven't seen much of Jokinen in recent years.
Well if you want Horton (and your sure as hell not getting him), Brian Smolinski, Vaclav Varada, 3rd Round Pick isnt anywhere near getting him. Thats trading the panthers best player for nothing.

Hagman is a great 4th line checking winger, he has little value on the nhl market but has great value to the panthers. Jokinen hasnt played that great this year, but he is still leading a terrible offensive team with 16 points in 19 games.
The sens win this trade so easily, and considering how good you are already, man.

J17 Vs Proclamation is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:23 PM
  #11
brucegarrioch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
Well if you want Horton (and your sure as hell not getting him), Brian Smolinski, Vaclav Varada, 3rd Round Pick isnt anywhere near getting him. Thats trading the panthers best player for nothing.
Not what I meant -- I was just saying that if I had my choice, I'd choose Horton over Jokinen. Of course I know Horton wouldn't be traded for Varada and Smolinski.

brucegarrioch is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:33 PM
  #12
Release The Lehner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
So, is Jokinen higher on the desired list than Weight?

I'm guessing he's more difficult to pry away given his age and smaller contract.
At the same price I'm gonna say no, I'd rather have Weight as a rental for a playoff run over Jokinen right now. It all depends what these teams are asking for in return. In my mind Arnott is the #1 desired guy by far, but if he's gonna cost a 1st and 2nd rounder over and above what Weight costs then I'll take Weight. Same goes for a Weight/Jokinen comparison; whichever one gives us the best skill:cost ratio. Right now the candidates in my mind are Arnott, Weight, Jokinen, Nedved, and Peca.

Release The Lehner is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:37 PM
  #13
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senator
Peca.
I think with Mike Peca, we'd end up in the same situation we are in now: with a guy who is relatively responsible defensively but may no longer have the offensive instincts and speed to be a legitimate #2 centre.

We might as well use Mike Fisher rather than pick up Mike Peca.

Not sure about Nedved either. When he wants to play, he's fantastic. When he doesn't, he can float around with the best of them.

NyQuil is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:48 PM
  #14
Release The Lehner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
I think with Mike Peca, we'd end up in the same situation we are in now: with a guy who is relatively responsible defensively but may no longer have the offensive instincts and speed to be a legitimate #2 centre.

We might as well use Mike Fisher rather than pick up Mike Peca.

Not sure about Nedved either. When he wants to play, he's fantastic. When he doesn't, he can float around with the best of them.
Again, it all comes down to what we have to give up to get them. Say everyone costs 2 1st rounders and Smoke and Bochenski except Peca who can be had for Bochenski straight up. I'd just take Peca. And Peca is definately an upgrade over Smoke. At the very least he'll work hard every shift (he's definately faster than Smoke and can keep up with Havlat/Fisher or whoever he's paired with) and will definately be a better leader in the room. I think he's got much more offensive ability aswell.

Regarding the questions about Nedved. Every one of those players has questions. Is Weight too old, Jokinen has no playoff experience, Peca's been hurt, Smoke looks like a pylon, etc... It just depends what we give up for him. What if Nedved only costs a 2nd and 3rd round pick? Well worth it if you ask me.

Release The Lehner is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:52 PM
  #15
J17 Vs Proclamation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Reading.
Country: South Korea
Posts: 7,758
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to J17 Vs Proclamation
Quote:
Originally Posted by BG
Not what I meant -- I was just saying that if I had my choice, I'd choose Horton over Jokinen. Of course I know Horton wouldn't be traded for Varada and Smolinski.
lol, awesome.
Horton is probably as good as Jokinen now, and is gonna be a stud. I dont think many would take Jokinen over Horton. But Jokinen will be alot easy to require than Horton.
Still this proposal is just awful, ive seen some awful proposal recently, and this isnt to far off those.

J17 Vs Proclamation is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:52 PM
  #16
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,566
vCash: 500
I'd like to see a clear upgrade if we're moving picks or prospects.

I'm not sure Peca or even Nedved qualifies.

NyQuil is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 12:59 PM
  #17
Release The Lehner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
I'd like to see a clear upgrade if we're moving picks or prospects.

I'm not sure Peca or even Nedved qualifies.
I can see where Peca may not be a clear upgrade over players we already have, but Nedved is.

If you don't see it that way that's fine. To each his own.

But Nedved>>>Smolinski. I think a Nedved-Havlat combo would be lethal, especially if other teams best checkers are concentrated on our first line. Plus, he could be considered a PP specialist which is exactly what we need.

With cost of acquiring any of these players taken into consideration I think Nedved might actually be the best "bang for buck" player we could hope to get. People don't want to mortgage the future, but they want to upgrade for this season. Well I think Nedved would be a perfect compromise.

Release The Lehner is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 01:05 PM
  #18
The Lehner
;)
 
The Lehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
I'd like to see a clear upgrade if we're moving picks or prospects.

I'm not sure Peca or even Nedved qualifies.
I totally agree...I think Arnott, Weight and Jokinen are what this team needs and are way ahead of Peca or Nedved on the radar screen. I would definitely pass on Peca and would only take Nedved if that's all we could get at the deadline...and wouldn't exchange very much for him (say a mid-level draft pick, assuming he's a UFA next summer).

The Lehner is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 01:11 PM
  #19
armani
Guy Likes
 
armani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,243
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil
So, is Jokinen higher on the desired list than Weight?

I'm guessing he's more difficult to pry away given his age and smaller contract.
If we could get one or the other for the same price, I would pick Jokinen any day of the week. Weight is great, but Jokinen's a better player and less injury prone. He is more of a scorer than a playmaker though, but in the playoffs, I won't mind having another goal-scorer who can score all sorts of goals (including dirty/garbage goals that our stars are incapable of scoring for some reason). Ofcourse, he can also make plays. Havlat and Jokinen would compliment each other well.

Both are excellent choices. Both would be valuable addition to the 2nd PP unit. But Jokinen is a step above at this point.

armani is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 01:17 PM
  #20
armani
Guy Likes
 
armani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,243
vCash: 50
BTW, the offer stinks. Florida gets robbed!

Jason Arnott is not only overrated, but why would Dallas (a playoff team) give up on a supposed playoff warrior? Doesn't make any sense.

Weight is probably the most logical option, but even then Ottawa might not be able to acquire his services before someone else does.

armani is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 03:26 PM
  #21
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 5,843
vCash: 500
Ottawa does that in a second, but Florida doesn't.

And no way Ottawa is going to pry Horton away from the Cats.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 03:33 PM
  #22
The Mars Volchenkov
Registered User
 
The Mars Volchenkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 35,954
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
This trade proposal is pretty bad. I love Jokinen, but I have a feeling it would cost WAY too much to acquire this guy. Weight is still my top choice. I watched him last night. He would complement Havlat so well.

The Mars Volchenkov is offline  
Old
11-17-2005, 04:08 PM
  #23
PeterSidorkiewicz
Original *** allstar
 
PeterSidorkiewicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Michigan
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 14,619
vCash: 500
I was bored and I rarely ever post trade proposals but I guess since this is already Florida/Ottawa, i'll post and tell me what you think. Lets just say Hypothetically Luongo does want out of Florida and the Sens offered this

To Florida: Havlat, Redden, Emery
To Ottawa: Luongo

Just wondered what anyone thought of this, it would be a deal done in the offseason after this year, but before July 1, and of course Redden and Florida would have to agree to terms.

PeterSidorkiewicz is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 04:53 PM
  #24
armani
Guy Likes
 
armani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,243
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz
I was bored and I rarely ever post trade proposals but I guess since this is already Florida/Ottawa, i'll post and tell me what you think. Lets just say Hypothetically Luongo does want out of Florida and the Sens offered this

To Florida: Havlat, Redden, Emery
To Ottawa: Luongo


Just wondered what anyone thought of this, it would be a deal done in the offseason after this year, but before July 1, and of course Redden and Florida would have to agree to terms.
Take out Emery from the deal.

It makes sense in the off-season, considering Hasek is probably going to retire after this season. Redden is well-coveted through out the league and Keenan would love to have him.

Havlat will be a bigger star in Florida than he is in Ottawa where he is regarded behind Alfie, Spezza, and Heatley in terms of star power. He deserves first line minutes with his vast array of offensive talents.

In any other season, it is an overpayment - Luongo already wants out of Florida. But no other team is able to offer the same calibre of players as Ottawa does in this deal. Ofcourse it is all relative to long-term contracts signed by all three players with their new team.

armani is online now  
Old
11-17-2005, 04:57 PM
  #25
The Mars Volchenkov
Registered User
 
The Mars Volchenkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 35,954
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
Before we trade Emery, let's see him lose a game. This guy has exceeded my expectations this season so far and I'd like to see if he can keep it up. You have to think the Sens organization is happy with his play and if Hasek retires, I think they will be willing to let Emery be the starter next year with a veteran backing him up.

Luongo wants a rediculous amount of money. Everyone wants the Alfie cap to stay in place, I'm pretty sure Luongo wants much more than that.

As good as Luongo is, I don't think he's worth a top scorer, a top defenseman, and a top goaltending prospect.

The Mars Volchenkov is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.