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Roberto Luongo merged thread for proposals -- new threads will be deleted

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Old
11-22-2005, 07:50 PM
  #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuzzi
Mike Keenan is attending the Canucks game tonight (Mojo radio).
According to this Keenan may be shopping around the league looking to make a trade. I can't really see the Canucks making any significant roster moves at this point in the season, but perhaps Keenan is getting an early look at some potential trade targets?

Or maybe Keenan is just sick of watching the Panthers play and decided to watch a good team play for once...

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11-22-2005, 08:27 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Coolburn
I never said Aebi was too old. I just said using the Roy trade as a basis, a young goaltender like Budaj would be more likely to be coming back in return. And Hejduk's age is a concern but Florida is desparate for goal scorers. Because he's signed long term for an affordable amount, it makes a lot of sense for Florida's cheap ownership.
Yeah it's a great contract which makes him pretty much untouchable. It'll be hell trying to talk free agents into coming here knowing that a home town discount isn't going to keep you in town 3 a full seasonI can see why any team would want Hedjuk.
Quote:
Well the difference is that Tanguay isn't really a goal scorer and that's what Florida needs most. Tanguay is an excellent player but I figured that it makes more sense for Colorado to hang onto Tanguay as their other future franchise player alongside Luongo. Hejduk is a franchise player now and that's what Florida needs if they give up a franchise player in Luongo. Also, if COL doesn't deal Aebi to FL, then he can be dealt for some depth on the right wing (or in my suggestion, including RW Anthony Stewart who will return in mid January when I think any team may be more inclined to trade for Luongo when a contract can be renegotiated).

I was referring to this season since Colorado is fairly close to the cap (I'm not sure exactly but TSN shows it at about $38M). To get Luongo under the cap, you'd have to deal someone with an almost equivalent salary for this yr with equivalent trade value.
There's some confusion about what the cap number is at right now. It's fairly close so Luongo for a 7th round pick wouldn't work in Denver.

However Luongo is at 3.2, Tanguay at 3, Hedjuk at 3.9, Aebischer at 1.9 so any of those salaries going the other way would be enough space cleared. Even Boughner, Sauer, Vaananen and McLean for Luongo is enough for cap purposes.

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11-23-2005, 02:17 AM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn
I never said Aebi was too old. I just said using the Roy trade as a basis, a young goaltender like Budaj would be more likely to be coming back in return. And Hejduk's age is a concern but Florida is desparate for goal scorers. Because he's signed long term for an affordable amount, it makes a lot of sense for Florida's cheap ownership.
Well the difference is that Tanguay isn't really a goal scorer and that's what Florida needs most. Tanguay is an excellent player but I figured that it makes more sense for Colorado to hang onto Tanguay as their other future franchise player alongside Luongo. Hejduk is a franchise player now and that's what Florida needs if they give up a franchise player in Luongo. Also, if COL doesn't deal Aebi to FL, then he can be dealt for some depth on the right wing (or in my suggestion, including RW Anthony Stewart who will return in mid January when I think any team may be more inclined to trade for Luongo when a contract can be renegotiated).

I was referring to this season since Colorado is fairly close to the cap (I'm not sure exactly but TSN shows it at about $38M). To get Luongo under the cap, you'd have to deal someone with an almost equivalent salary for this yr with equivalent trade value.
You want a goal scorer...Forget a goaltender goaing back to Fla, how about this...Bougner, Sauer, and Svatos for Luongo. There's your goal scorer the Cats assume some D-men and salary.

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11-23-2005, 02:45 AM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Or maybe Keenan is just sick of watching the Panthers play and decided to watch a good team play for once...



Best post of the month, and I don't care if you're talking about Vancouver or Chicago.

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11-23-2005, 03:36 AM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
You want a goal scorer...Forget a goaltender goaing back to Fla, how about this...Bougner, Sauer, and Svatos for Luongo. There's your goal scorer the Cats assume some D-men and salary.
I'm pretty sure Florida can do a little better than one good prospect and 2 spare parts.

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11-23-2005, 04:00 AM
  #281
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Here comes the cap problem once again. I'm pretty sure the Panthers would be more interested in Auld than in Cloutier. They'd probably want Kesler as well. I don't see it being remotely possible for the Canucks to get Luongo unless a big BIG contract is heading the other way. Basically, Bertuzzi, Jovo, Ohlund, Naslund, Morrison or Cloutier. Does moving any of those guys for Luongo make the Canucks that much better? Or does it make them worse?

Then again, maybe Luongo isn't even on the market...

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11-23-2005, 05:52 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Hasbro
The Slovaks didn't make it out of the opening round either, think it could have anything to do with Bettman keeping the league going during the preliminary round and a lack of team cohesiveness?
That has nothing to do with it. Switzerland was made up almost exclusively of European league veterans -- regardless they were still supposed to get out of the prelims being that they were not in the same pool as Slovakia, who took a chance because they didn't want to name a team of all euro league vets who would have been crushed when the big boys came in (had they advanced) much like the Germans did. Switzerland for the most part was the same team they kept putting out in the Worlds every year who should have won if not for poor goaltending (top of the list among other things).

Quote:
Yeah his 2 OT wins facing elimination 2.33 GAA and .906 pct killed us in that series. 7 goals in support should have been enough for him to work with. At least we're not trying to trade that stiff Luongo, he's got to be worse than Aebischer because he could only must one win against him that post season.

He was still giving up soft goals regardless and those two wins came after the Sharks were up 3-0 in the series. It wasn't like he won games 6 and 7 in OT.

Luongo has never gotten a legitimate chance. In fact the only pressure situation he was even in was the World Cup. If you're trying to argue that Aebischer is better than Luongo I strongly suggest you reconsider.

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11-23-2005, 05:54 AM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Again, if the trade has to involve either of Alex Tanguay or Milan Hejduk, it won't get done. Luongo wants to play for a contender and trading one of those two guys eliminates the Avs from that category.
Well someone has to go because they still have to re-sign Sakic and Blake with Luongo, unless Blake is going to be let go in which case...there is no defense.

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11-23-2005, 08:18 AM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
That has nothing to do with it. Switzerland was made up almost exclusively of European league veterans -- regardless they were still supposed to get out of the prelims being that they were not in the same pool as Slovakia, who took a chance because they didn't want to name a team of all euro league vets who would have been crushed when the big boys came in (had they advanced) much like the Germans did. Switzerland for the most part was the same team they kept putting out in the Worlds every year who should have won if not for poor goaltending (top of the list among other things).
Of course it was made up of Euro leaguers. Aebischer was the only Swiss player in the NHL.

Quote:
He was still giving up soft goals regardless and those two wins came after the Sharks were up 3-0 in the series. It wasn't like he won games 6 and 7 in OT.
So the goal from Damphouse in the 1-0 loss soft? The goal Cheechoo shot through his legs? Or is it just rhetorical fall back for things like facts getting in the way of the argument.

Yeah he should have won four strait facing elimination.

Quote:
Luongo has never gotten a legitimate chance. In fact the only pressure situation he was even in was the World Cup. If you're trying to argue that Aebischer is better than Luongo I strongly suggest you reconsider.
Meant to type Turco and the sarcasm should have been evident by that point. Funny you don't mention that Dallas series it is something not "nothing" other than looking horrible versus San Jose.

If anyone knows bad goaltending I'm sure it's a Flyers fan.

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11-23-2005, 08:28 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
Well someone has to go because they still have to re-sign Sakic and Blake with Luongo, unless Blake is going to be let go in which case...there is no defense.
I suspect Blake will either be gone or be taking a paycut. as it stands today Blake's salary alone would free up space enough for Sakic and Luongo to get up to this season's max salary with a couple million left over, enough to get a decent D-man to cover the hole through free angency. That's if it comes down to that, I expect Sakic and Blake's (where ever he does end up) salary will come down a bit.

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11-23-2005, 08:31 AM
  #286
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When Patrick Roy was trade from Montreal...
Montreal Canadiens traded Patrick Roy and Mike Keane to the Colorado Avalanche for Andrei Kovalenko, Martin Rucinsky and Jocelyn Thibault.

So why do you think Luongo deal should be any better? Roy had expirience, a monster playoff goalie and a ring on his finger. What does Luongo have? High contract demands based on what, asking for more then 5 million? He didn't win anything yet so I do not think his value should be more then when Roy was traded.

Broudur Theodore Nobakov Kiprusoff Jean-Sebastien Giguere some of these goalies are better and some of these goalies are very compatible with Loungo and only one of them making over 5 million. Never the less I wish Flyers trade for Luongo, I believe Kenan and Clarke like to deal with each other. Umberger Hatcher Esche and 2006 1st and maybe 2nd rounds for Luongo, Semenov, Gratton. Flyers giving up 2 first rounders in process one of them is NHL ready and a second round.


Last edited by greatwhite101: 11-23-2005 at 08:46 AM.
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11-23-2005, 11:11 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
Well someone has to go because they still have to re-sign Sakic and Blake with Luongo, unless Blake is going to be let go in which case...there is no defense.
Neither of Rob Blake or Joe Sakic will return at their $6.345235623478523487 M salaries.

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11-23-2005, 11:30 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUS
When Patrick Roy was trade from Montreal...
Montreal Canadiens traded Patrick Roy and Mike Keane to the Colorado Avalanche for Andrei Kovalenko, Martin Rucinsky and Jocelyn Thibault.

So why do you think Luongo deal should be any better? Roy had expirience, a monster playoff goalie and a ring on his finger. What does Luongo have? High contract demands based on what, asking for more then 5 million? He didn't win anything yet so I do not think his value should be more then when Roy was traded.

Broudur Theodore Nobakov Kiprusoff Jean-Sebastien Giguere some of these goalies are better and some of these goalies are very compatible with Loungo and only one of them making over 5 million. Never the less I wish Flyers trade for Luongo, I believe Kenan and Clarke like to deal with each other. Umberger Hatcher Esche and 2006 1st and maybe 2nd rounds for Luongo, Semenov, Gratton. Flyers giving up 2 first rounders in process one of them is NHL ready and a second round.
How are any of those Goalies better than Luongo? Broduer until this season, yes. Theodore, no. Nabakov, no. Kipper, no. Giguere er no.
If we trade Luongo, i want a very good younger player coming back.

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11-23-2005, 12:30 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
How are any of those Goalies better than Luongo? Broduer until this season, yes. Theodore, no. Nabakov, no. Kipper, no. Giguere er no.
If we trade Luongo, i want a very good younger player coming back.
Marty is better easy. (what do you mean until this season lol) every other goalie is very compatible. Read before you reply.

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11-23-2005, 12:36 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUS
Marty is better easy. (what do you mean until this season lol) every other goalie is very compatible. Read before you reply.
I said until this season, as i might have been flamed if i had said Luongo is better than Broduer.

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11-23-2005, 12:56 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUS
When Patrick Roy was trade from Montreal...
Montreal Canadiens traded Patrick Roy and Mike Keane to the Colorado Avalanche for Andrei Kovalenko, Martin Rucinsky and Jocelyn Thibault.

So why do you think Luongo deal should be any better? Roy had expirience, a monster playoff goalie and a ring on his finger. What does Luongo have? High contract demands based on what, asking for more then 5 million? He didn't win anything yet so I do not think his value should be more then when Roy was traded.

Broudur Theodore Nobakov Kiprusoff Jean-Sebastien Giguere some of these goalies are better and some of these goalies are very compatible with Loungo and only one of them making over 5 million. Never the less I wish Flyers trade for Luongo, I believe Kenan and Clarke like to deal with each other. Umberger Hatcher Esche and 2006 1st and maybe 2nd rounds for Luongo, Semenov, Gratton. Flyers giving up 2 first rounders in process one of them is NHL ready and a second round.
Roy was traded when he was 30 yrs old...Luongo is just 26. Roy won his second Cup when he was 27 (He won his first as a rookie several yrs earlier). So don't you think if Roy was traded when he was 26, Montreal would've gotten more in return?? They got good value even though Roy demanded a trade. Luongo hasn't done that (yet). Now, if Luongo himself comes out and asks for a trade or does some holdout kinda thing, then yeah he wouldn't have high value. But I do think that most GMs know that it would take a package BETTER than what Roy was traded for.

You mentioned Brodeur and Theodore...both Team Canada teammates of Roberto's. Currently, Luongo is #2 to Brodeur and I think that pretty much says he's better than Theodore (who's making $4.5M this yr but $5.5 next yr and $6 in his final yr of the new contract). And Brodeur is making over $5 million as well but he well deserves it. Luongo would've signed a team friendly deal for this season and next but was looking for a bigger pay day when he would be in his UFA yrs. Averaged out of the life of the contract, yes he'd be getting $5+ million and it makes sense.

If the Flyers were to trade for him, why wouldn't they include Niittymaki instead of Esche (this I suggested on the Panthers board to you as well)? Esche is reasonably priced as a backup ($1M) and Antero would hold more value for a young franchise like Florida. You'd have to include someone with some salary from Philly for it to work so I guess Hatcher it is. But Florida would be better off trading Sean Hill instead of Semenov. Gratton actually is useful for FL because he wins faceoffs and he's fairly affordable. Those 1st and 2nd round picks in 2006 aren't going to be worth that much in a very shallow draft.

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11-23-2005, 01:12 PM
  #292
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^ Roy was also considered past his prime. The media didn't think he had it left in him.
He proved them wrong
Best goalie ever.

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11-23-2005, 01:51 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn
Roy was traded when he was 30 yrs old...Luongo is just 26. Roy won his second Cup when he was 27 (He won his first as a rookie several yrs earlier). So don't you think if Roy was traded when he was 26, Montreal would've gotten more in return??
Oy, only on HF.

The age difference was more than offset by Roy's sterling resume.

Quote:
They got good value even though Roy demanded a trade. Luongo hasn't done that (yet). Now, if Luongo himself comes out and asks for a trade or does some holdout kinda thing, then yeah he wouldn't have high value. But I do think that most GMs know that it would take a package BETTER than what Roy was traded for.
That's where Florida has an advantage. They are under pressure to deal Roberto, unlike Motnreal that had a very public blow up, had to deal Roy fast and needed a french-canadian goalie in return, which effectively made it a one horse race. Keenan can take some time and has more options available to him.

I don't know how Montreal missed getting Deadmarsh in that deal.

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11-23-2005, 03:43 PM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
Oy, only on HF.

The age difference was more than offset by Roy's sterling resume.
While I'm not going to disagree with the age difference being offset by the resume, my point was that if Colorado could trade for Roy when he was 26...don't you think it would cost more than what Montreal got? And as pointed out, some overly critical media in Montreal believed that Roy was not on an up swing in his career (when in fact he was). While the Roy deal can be a basis, things are definitely different now as well...the game has changed...the financials have changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
That's where Florida has an advantage. They are under pressure to deal Roberto, unlike Motnreal that had a very public blow up, had to deal Roy fast and needed a french-canadian goalie in return, which effectively made it a one horse race. Keenan can take some time and has more options available to him.

I don't know how Montreal missed getting Deadmarsh in that deal.
The real advantage is if Colorado would make an offer...it could start a bidding war with other teams in the West like Vancouver. You're absolutely right that Keenan can take the time and he could drop hints in the media when/if they decided to move Roberto to get even better value. So while everyone says, "Player X won't be moved from Team Y because of Z reasons...", things can change when a bidding war starts. Go look over at the Canucks board and you'll see that's exactly what they believe could happen (since Keenan supposedly just attended a Vancouver-Chicago game recently).

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11-23-2005, 04:35 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn
While I'm not going to disagree with the age difference being offset by the resume, my point was that if Colorado could trade for Roy when he was 26...don't you think it would cost more than what Montreal got?
Given the place he was at in his career in when he was 26 I thing the same or less. He was still a year off from his second cup, if it were under better circumstances maybe.
Quote:
And as pointed out, some overly critical media in Montreal believed that Roy was not on an up swing in his career (when in fact he was). While the Roy deal can be a basis, things are definitely different now as well...the game has changed...the financials have changed.
The real advantage is if Colorado would make an offer...it could start a bidding war with other teams in the West like Vancouver. You're absolutely right that Keenan can take the time and he could drop hints in the media when/if they decided to move Roberto to get even better value. So while everyone says, "Player X won't be moved from Team Y because of Z reasons...", things can change when a bidding war starts. Go look over at the Canucks board and you'll see that's exactly what they believe could happen (since Keenan supposedly just attended a Vancouver-Chicago game recently).
Yeah I'm sure it won't be a pitance going back to Florida if and when, but there are alot negative indicators on Luongo's trade value right now. I don't thing there is a poster on this board who would have though Sergie fedorov would have the low yield in a trade that he brought from Columbus.

I'm trying to look at this from the perspective on what a trade would be rather than what i would give up.

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11-25-2005, 12:46 AM
  #296
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Ottawa-Florida Proposal (off-season)

from Ottawa: Havlat, Emery

from Florida: Luongo

Assumptions:

All three players have good seasons this year.
All three players re-sign for reasonable money (as determined by their new team).

Analysis:

Ottawa gets an elite-level young goalie (a replacement for Hasek). Ottawa gives up some offensive depth that they probably couldn't afford to keep next year anyway. Looking at this year's goal-scoring we can see that Ottawa without Havlat's goals would still be an offensive powerhouse.

Florida gets an elite-level young forward and a very good young goalie that can grow with this young team and perhaps break into the top ranks of goalies in the next year or two. On the business side, Emery also has huge marketing potential as a bright, personable, stylish and handsome hockey player who also happens to be black.

This might end up being approximately salary neutral. Emery would be pretty cheap and if he continues to develop then his peak might be a better fit with Florida's rebuilding schedule.


Last edited by RTWAP*: 11-25-2005 at 01:12 AM. Reason: minor edits
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11-25-2005, 02:09 AM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalfTheWiseNPowerful
from Ottawa: Havlat, Emery

from Florida: Luongo
Not enough for Luongo, imo. You'd probably have to add someone like Phillips, or a signed Redden/Chara.

I'd think Havlat could get us something like Raycroft or Lundqvist, since Boston and NY have Toivonen and Montoya in their systems. But Luongo will cost too much, in both the assets we'd have to give up to get him, and the salary he'd demand on a long term deal.

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11-25-2005, 02:24 AM
  #298
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I read about rumours where supposedly Vancouver is trading Bertuzzi + Jovanovski + Cloutier for Bouwmeester + Luongo.

That deal would be better for Florida, eventhough Havlat will be a top player for many years to come. I just don't see Florida trading Luongo to Ottawa unless it involves more than Havlat & Emery.

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11-25-2005, 02:46 AM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senator
Not enough for Luongo, imo. You'd probably have to add someone like Phillips, or a signed Redden/Chara.

I'd think Havlat could get us something like Raycroft or Lundqvist, since Boston and NY have Toivonen and Montoya in their systems. But Luongo will cost too much, in both the assets we'd have to give up to get him, and the salary he'd demand on a long term deal.
You may be right. I think I value Emery a little higher than you do though. To your last point, in a cap world any player with a large salary effectively diminishes their trade value. Admittedly, Luongo starts off as very valuable.

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11-25-2005, 02:49 AM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakine
I read about rumours where supposedly Vancouver is trading Bertuzzi + Jovanovski + Cloutier for Bouwmeester + Luongo.

That deal would be better for Florida, eventhough Havlat will be a top player for many years to come. I just don't see Florida trading Luongo to Ottawa unless it involves more than Havlat & Emery.
As has been discussed elsewhere, if Vancouver wants to rebuild then it would make sense, but they are solid this year so that is unlikely. In the offseason it would be Bert+Cloutier for Luongo+Bouwmeester. ???? I can't see that happening.

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