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Roberto Luongo merged thread for proposals -- new threads will be deleted

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Old
11-18-2005, 01:13 PM
  #151
Bubba Thudd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn
If I were Florida, I would switch out the 1st for Svatos and probably include Kolnik.
Are you saying?:

Vaananen/Wolski/Svatos/Kolesnik/Aebischer for Luongo.

OR:

Vaananen/Wolski/Svatos/Kolesnik for Luongo.

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11-18-2005, 01:13 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
lol lets hope the avs suck then.

Vanannen, Aebi, Wolski or a first? That has to be a typo, a late first round pick isnt going to get Luongo.
He meant...

Ossi Vaananen
+
David Aebischer
+
ONE of Wojtek Wolski _OR_ a 1st round pick

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11-18-2005, 01:14 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd
Are you saying?:

Vaananen/Wolski/Svatos/Kolesnik/Aebischer for Luongo.

OR:

Vaananen/Wolski/Svatos/Kolesnik for Luongo.
No, he's talking about Juraj Kolnik, a weak one-dimensional forward.

He wants...

Vaananen/Aebischer/Wolski/Svatos

for

Luongo/Kolnik

That's something I would _not_ do from an Avs perspective.

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11-18-2005, 01:20 PM
  #154
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Theodore,1st round pick
for
Luongo

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Old
11-18-2005, 01:25 PM
  #155
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I have to agree with Jay...Vananen/Wolski/Aebischer for Luongo is very good value for the Patnthers. Panther fans obviously don't understand that Wolski was slated to be a very high first rounder if not for legal issues which have been resloved. Everytime I read a reply to this folks point out that Luongo is not worth Wolski and Vananen...Newsflash...the Panthers get a back up to the greatest goaltender of all time who was on a SC winner, and has playoff success in his own right as a starter. Aebischer is no slouch. Fans can ignore him as part of the equation all they want but I'm sure Panther management wouldn't.

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11-18-2005, 01:29 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
To Colorado:

Roberto Luongo

To Florida:

Ossi Vaananen
Avs 1st rounder in 2006
Wojtek Wolsi

This is the kind of cost I see associated with Roberto Luongo. Now at the same time, I think in a deal like that one, Colorado is moving Aebischer back too, I'm well aware of that, and that would have to be worked into the deal no doubt.
I disagree with you, Mizral. I think Luongo has as much trade value as any player of his generation. You're talking about a franchise player - a guy who can take a good team like the AVs and instantly transform them into a Stanley Cup contender.

I don't think the deal above comes close to getting it done. This is a dman who has struggled of late, a late first, and a very good prospect, for a top two or three goaltender.

I think Florida would insist on Liles, Tanguay to start.

I still think the deal that makes the most sense would have Luongo going to the Caps. The Caps won't be able to attract a stud goaltender via the uFA market, have room on their payroll, and have the young assets to move.

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Old
11-18-2005, 01:39 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I disagree with you, Mizral. I think Luongo has as much trade value as any player of his generation. You're talking about a franchise player - a guy who can take a good team like the AVs and instantly transform them into a Stanley Cup contender.

I don't think the deal above comes close to getting it done. This is a dman who has struggled of late, a late first, and a very good prospect, for a top two or three goaltender.

I think Florida would insist on Liles, Tanguay to start.

I still think the deal that makes the most sense would have Luongo going to the Caps. The Caps won't be able to attract a stud goaltender via the uFA market, have room on their payroll, and have the young assets to move.
So your theory is the Avs have to depleat themselves out of SC contender status to land Luongo?? Is that correct??? I'll tell you this, there are many players at this point the Avs could trade far less than you are proposing as a start that would make the Avs instnt SC contenders...what does Fla care if the AVs become instant SC contenders?? All they should care about is improving their situation and Jay's proposal does that. Aebi is a viable replacement for Luongo...he is not Luongo but he is a quality netminder, and Vananen would be the gritty D man the Panthers are looking for. Obviously you know little about Wolski to automatically discount his part in the deal. Which is at the heart of the issue between fans. Management on both sides always look at everything in the trade, not just what they choose to look at. Get over it...Tanguay and Liles would not go together. Tanguay and Liles much > Luongo by himself. Fla is in the weaker position, so why would we give more????

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11-18-2005, 01:46 PM
  #158
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Don't underestimate Detroit's interest...

Detroit was in the running for Khabibulin this summer, and decide $5.5 mil was too much given his age and demands, at which point they opted out.

We know they will be in the hot, younger goalie prospecting game.

Will they really want to stand by and watch either Colorado or Vancouver get Luongo? I think they would give up a lot to get him, virtually no one is untouchable. They probably would like to build their new franchise around a goalie and Luongo may be exactly what they need.

Luongo wants to go to a contender so any team that does not meet that standard in Roberto's mind has no hope of keeping him when the 2 years are up.

That makes Colorado, Detroit and Vancouver the most likely, also since they are Western and not Eastern teams.

Finally I think Detroit has one of the better mixes of current vets (Lang, Legace, Draper types) mixed with younger guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall and prospects like Howard, Grigorenko, Hudler and Filppula.

The Panthers could get guys from 2 of those categories, but nothing like Legace, Datsyuk and Z-berg. Any prospect of course is the icing on the cake.

If Luongo is being shopped, and if Keenan prefers dealing with the West, look for a strong offer from Holland.

 
Old
11-18-2005, 01:49 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
lol lets hope the avs suck then.

Vanannen, Aebi, Wolski or a first? That has to be a typo, a late first round pick isnt going to get Luongo.

You want a highly regarded talent...Wolski might have been a top ten pick in 04 if he had not been in legal trouble, which is now a thing of the past. He's nothing to shake a stick at. If the Panthers did end up with him Vananen and Aebi, it would make them a better team.

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11-18-2005, 01:52 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu
Detroit was in the running for Khabibulin this summer, and decide $5.5 mil was too much given his age and demands, at which point they opted out.

We know they will be in the hot, younger goalie prospecting game.

Will they really want to stand by and watch either Colorado or Vancouver get Luongo? I think they would give up a lot to get him, virtually no one is untouchable. They probably would like to build their new franchise around a goalie and Luongo may be exactly what they need.

Luongo wants to go to a contender so any team that does not meet that standard in Roberto's mind has no hope of keeping him when the 2 years are up.

That makes Colorado, Detroit and Vancouver the most likely, also since they are Western and not Eastern teams.

Finally I think Detroit has one of the better mixes of current vets (Lang, Legace, Draper types) mixed with younger guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall and prospects like Howard, Grigorenko, Hudler and Filppula.

The Panthers could get guys from 2 of those categories, but nothing like Legace, Datsyuk and Z-berg. Any prospect of course is the icing on the cake.

If Luongo is being shopped, and if Keenan prefers dealing with the West, look for a strong offer from Holland.
Then they signed Datsyuk...they don't have room now or in the future to sign him long term. Folks are realizing CO makes the most sense becuase they have 13 million freed up for next year by declining Sakic and Blake's options. Would Detroit want Luongo...no doubt. But I doubt they have the resources to get him done at 6 million a year long term. The Canucks are in the same boat, unless Keenan wants to take on 5 million in salaries, which if he does, then why not just pay Luongo????

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Old
11-18-2005, 01:54 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
So your theory is the Avs have to depleat themselves out of SC contender status to land Luongo?? Is that correct??? I'll tell you this, there are many players at this point the Avs could trade far less than you are proposing as a start that would make the Avs instnt SC contenders...what does Fla care if the AVs become instant SC contenders?? All they should care about is improving their situation and Jay's proposal does that. Aebi is a viable replacement for Luongo...he is not Luongo but he is a quality netminder, and Vananen would be the gritty D man the Panthers are looking for. Obviously you know little about Wolski to automatically discount his part in the deal. Which is at the heart of the issue between fans. Management on both sides always look at everything in the trade, not just what they choose to look at. Get over it...Tanguay and Liles would not go together. Tanguay and Liles much > Luongo by himself. Fla is in the weaker position, so why would we give more????
Aebischer is not a viable replacement for Luongo. If he was, you wouldn't keep proposing deals that are built around him. He is a bottom half goaltender right now, and he is not going to lead the Avs to a cup. You're either going to have to replace him, or you're going to have to build a defense that is so elite that you won't need an upper tier netminder to win.

I don't see how Mizral's deal improves Florida. They swap an elite goaltender who keeps them in every game, and they don't get much more than OK goaltender and good prospect in exchange. And, in fact, unless I misread, I don't think Mizral's deal even included Aebischer.

I'm not sure Florida is in such a weak position either. Luongo may well be the best goaltender in the league right now. There are going to be quite a few teams that would love to have him.

I think Liles, Tanguay, Wolski, and a pick sounds fair. Florida could then replace Luongo on the UFA market and you can move Aebischer elsewhere.

Either way, I don't see anything happening to either the deadline, or the summer.

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11-18-2005, 01:58 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
Then they signed Datsyuk...they don't have room now or in the future to sign him long term. Folks are realizing CO makes the most sense becuase they have 13 million freed up for next year by declining Sakic and Blake's options. Would Detroit want Luongo...no doubt. But I doubt they have the resources to get him done at 6 million a year long term. The Canucks are in the same boat, unless Keenan wants to take on 5 million in salaries, which if he does, then why not just pay Luongo????
You're assuming that Det. won't be able to move any salary in return if they trade for Luongo.

I think Det. is just as viable a destination as Col.

And, I'm also not sure that all that 13 million is going to be savings. I'm expecting Col to work out a longterm deal with Sakic and resign him.

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11-18-2005, 02:00 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
Then they signed Datsyuk...they don't have room now or in the future to sign him long term. Folks are realizing CO makes the most sense becuase they have 13 million freed up for next year by declining Sakic and Blake's options. Would Detroit want Luongo...no doubt. But I doubt they have the resources to get him done at 6 million a year long term. The Canucks are in the same boat, unless Keenan wants to take on 5 million in salaries, which if he does, then why not just pay Luongo????
This is incorrect. Yzerman, Shanny, Legace, Osgood, Chelios, Lidstrom and all the younger guys you did not hear about before are on ONE year contracts or in the case of Lidstrom, the contract expires at the end of this year.

Dastyuk signed a 2-year deal.

Depending on who is traded, the cap situation is entirely manageable this year. Next year it is a cake walk given how many guys will be up for renewal.

Maltby and Draper may be on the last year, maybe 1 additional year for Draper, but I'd have to check on those two.

The cap issue was tight for Detroit going into this year, which why they did the buyouts. It gets a whole lot better next year and thereafter.

 
Old
11-18-2005, 02:01 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Aebischer is not a viable replacement for Luongo. If he was, you wouldn't keep proposing deals that are built around him. He is a bottom half goaltender right now, and he is not going to lead the Avs to a cup. You're either going to have to replace him, or you're going to have to build a defense that is so elite that you won't need an upper tier netminder to win.

.
He is the AVs #1 goaltender...he is viable in the fact he is a prodigy of the greatest of all time and has playoff success. Any deal invoving the Avs will involve Aebischer as Fla will have a gaping hole at the position. You don't see it and that's fine, but I don't expect fans to analyze trade deals from the standpoint of management for any team.

Like I said, Fla is not going to depleat a team to trade Luongo and that is the furthest from their mind if they decide to move him.

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11-18-2005, 02:02 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaPanthers7
Palm Beach Post.com has an article talking about this Luongo situation. They specifically mention the Avs possibly offering Lilies & Budaj plus for Luongo. I hope that plus would be SOMEONE WHO CAN SCORE!!!

Keenan, of court, denied any talks about trading Luongo. Shocker...
If Col is involved, I'm guessing that Lilies is the starting point for the package, and I think you'll also see Tanguay or somebody at that level involved. But, I guess we'll see.

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11-18-2005, 02:02 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I think Liles, Tanguay, Wolski, and a pick sounds fair.
Oh... my... God...

Darth, I won't even reply to that one.

Just... wow. _WOW!_


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11-18-2005, 02:04 PM
  #167
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I think some folks are stuck in that idea that the team that gets the best individual player "wins" the deal, and that the team that is getting said best player has to pay out the nose with way too much star talent.

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11-18-2005, 02:04 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
He is the AVs #1 goaltender...he is viable in the fact he is a prodigy of the greatest of all time and has playoff success. Any deal invoving the Avs will involve Aebischer as Fla will have a gaping hole at the position. You don't see it and that's fine, but I don't expect fans to analyze trade deals from the standpoint of management for any team.

Like I said, Fla is not going to depleat a team to trade Luongo and that is the furthest from their mind if they decide to move him.
He may be the AV's #1 goaltender. That doesn't mean he is all that good. You badly want this deal to go down, because you know that the Avs aren't going to go anywhere with Aebischer in net.

I don't see Florida trading for him at all. If Luongo is moved, they'll have plenty of room on the payroll and there will be better goalies available as UFAs.

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11-18-2005, 02:06 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury

And, I'm also not sure that all that 13 million is going to be savings. I'm expecting Col to work out a longterm deal with Sakic and resign him.
I don't expect it to be savings either but if the Avs cann make a move now then they will know what they have to work with when they do resign Sakic and possibly Blake.

As far as Detroit...I think they hitched their trailer to Legacy when Hasek was around. I don't see Detroit attemting to upgrade on Legacy...they may try to push the price up if there is to be a deal...but I wouldn't consider them at all a serious player.

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11-18-2005, 02:08 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I think Liles, Tanguay, Wolski, and a pick sounds fair.
Wow. Pass whatever it is you are smoking.

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11-18-2005, 02:10 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose'sMullet
I don't expect it to be savings either but if the Avs cann make a move now then they will know what they have to work with when they do resign Sakic and possibly Blake.

As far as Detroit...I think they hitched their trailer to Legacy when Hasek was around. I don't see Detroit attemting to upgrade on Legacy...they may try to push the price up if there is to be a deal...but I wouldn't consider them at all a serious player.
Actually, I'm quite certain the Wings will try to upgrade Legace this summer. They'll either do it with a trade (i.e., Luongo) or they'll sign an UFA. I think the chances that Luongo goes to Det are every bit as good as the chances he winds up in Col.

I also think the odds that Florida resigns Luongo for a the longterm are still pretty good.

Another alternative is that a team that looses a goaltender to UFA status this summer, makes Florida an attractive offer for Luongo.

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11-18-2005, 02:11 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Actually, I'm quite certain the Wings will try to upgrade Legace this summer. They'll either do it with a trade (i.e., Luongo) or they'll sign an UFA.
Didn't they already do that with Chris Osgood last summer?

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11-18-2005, 02:15 PM
  #173
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Wow. Pass whatever it is you are smoking.
You're right. Avs might have to add something else.

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11-18-2005, 02:15 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Didn't they already do that with Chris Osgood last summer?

You mean Wasgood??? Maybe they can deal for Cujo???

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11-18-2005, 02:16 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
If Col is involved, I'm guessing that Lilies is the starting point for the package, and I think you'll also see Tanguay or somebody at that level involved. But, I guess we'll see.
You're just spelling his name the same way it was spelled in the post you quoted.

Yet, in another thread, you spell it right since the post you quoted spelled it right.

I certainly hope this isn't what I think it is, Darth...

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