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Article in The Hockey News bashes some HOFers

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11-18-2005, 03:00 PM
  #1
Big Phil
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Article in The Hockey News bashes some HOFers

In the most recent edition of The Hockey News there is an article form the editors suggesting that the Hall of Fame should induct more past Russian players. I agree only Tretiak and Kharlamov are in. I'd like to see Yakushev and at least Makarov in there too. So I have no argument there.

But in a paragraph it mentions that the Hall wont induct Russian player but rather sub-par stars like "Bob Pulford, Clark Gilles, Bernie Federko, Bill Barber and Guy Lapointe."

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Who's name is grossly out of place on that list? To me its Lapointe. Pulford and Gilles shouldnt be in there I agree. Federko, Hmm, I dont really know about that one. Barber I personally have no problem with being a Hall of Famer. He scored 40 goals or more 5 times, his high of 50. 420 goals in his career over 12 seasons and three post season all-star berths, not to mention two Cups.

Now to Lapointe. I have never heard anyone suggest anywhere that he isnt Hall of Fame worthy. How about this. 6 Cups, three post season all-star berths, twice over 70 points, mentioned as one of the big three on the Habs of the 70s, to me he's a legit HOFer and I've never heard any different. Anyone disagree? Its the first I ever heard of it.

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11-18-2005, 03:16 PM
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after they induct glenn anderson

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11-18-2005, 03:27 PM
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Federko was a fantastic offensive talent for over 10 yrs talent he also mentored gilmour as well at the end of his stay with stL

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...3?pid=00001634

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11-18-2005, 09:18 PM
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Does anyone else find it kind of unfair to try to compare cold-war Soviets with NHLers?? The Hockey Hall of Fame is sort of like a "NHL Hall of Fame", and its pretty tough to measure the two systems and the players within. Sadly, we only saw most of those greats competing as part of their national team.

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11-18-2005, 10:07 PM
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Well, it is the "Hockey Hall of Fame", not just the NHL Hall of Fame. Why not induct more good Russian players. Bure for sure will get in as Neely set a precedent (if he can get in with a career shortened by injury than so will Pavel).

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11-19-2005, 01:41 AM
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IMO, Gillies and Federko do not belong in the HHOF.

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11-19-2005, 03:05 AM
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I might be wrong, but aren't there rumours Pulford only got in because he was buddies with Eagleson and Ziegler?

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11-19-2005, 03:08 AM
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Calling a spade a spade.

I respect The Hockey News for expressing their best judgement, even if it's not PC. Who cares if it ruffles some feathers?

It's true, as far as they see it, and as far as I can tell too.

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11-19-2005, 05:22 AM
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IMO Lapointe was the 7th best D-man in the 70's after Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Park, Salming and Savard and he wasn't too far behind the latter two. If that isn't HOF worthy, I don't know what is.

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11-19-2005, 07:59 AM
  #10
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If only as a practical joker "Pointu" belongs in the Hall. He also has the on-ice qualifications. I've heard more than one person refer to him as the best of the "Big Three" and having watched him play at his peak can see why folks made the comment. He anchored the power play and was a rock defensively. His 30 goals is still a team record for defencemen.

As to the others, well, it seems as if The HHoF, and many other sports' Halls have become repositories of the very good. The fact that someone is not in the Hall of Fame does nothing to diminish the fact that simply making it to the NHL and sticking for a number of years puts a guy in the top tenth of a percent of the sport, nothing to be sneezed at.

Politics is a factor in every election, so some guys get in as a result of their relationships and connections, just like in the real world. Some don't get in for the same reasons.

If there's one NHLer I think ought to be enshtined, it's J-C Tremblay. Not his fault that he played in an era when there weren't but one defenceman in the NHL, a fellow named Orr. Tremblay would have a field day in today's NHL. Wouldn't have to relearn the game like a lotta blueliners have to.

A magician with the stick and one of the best skaters and puck-handlers of his day, he probably never laid a hip or shoulder on anyone in his career. Didn't need to. I remember him killing penalties all by himself, playing keep-away with the other team.

Unfortunately Tremblay was not a sociable sort. Referred to as Le Vieux Grognion (The Old Grouch) by a lot of the media. Not the kind of relationship that'll make for popularity with the writers. A look at the selection committee membership reveals a number of media types

He also jumped to the WHA and gave credibility to the new league in Quebec the way Hull did in the rest of the North America.This type of behavior was not smiled upon by the movers and shakers of the NHL or the Canadiens organization and I suspect may be why he is not even enshrined in the Habs Hall of Fame.

At the time of his premature death he was back in the Canadiens organization and was their European scout. Had he lived perhaps his political rehabilitation would have been complete and he'd be enshrined.

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11-19-2005, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
I might be wrong, but aren't there rumours Pulford only got in because he was buddies with Eagleson and Ziegler?
I wouldn't be surprized. Just about all the worst selections to Cooperstown were Ford Frick's buddies.

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11-19-2005, 08:49 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe
IMO Lapointe was the 7th best D-man in the 70's after Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Park, Salming and Savard and he wasn't too far behind the latter two. If that isn't HOF worthy, I don't know what is.
Its ludicrous to suggest that Guy Lapointe should not be in the HOF.

There is also no way Serge Savard was a better defencemen than him. I would also easily take him over Salming.

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11-19-2005, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
I'd like to see Yakushev and at least Makarov in there too. So I have no argument there.
I'd think Boris Mikhailov would have to be inducted before Yakushev at least. Maybe it's just me, but he was dominant for at least a decade...

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11-19-2005, 03:44 PM
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Okay so at least I'm not alone, Lapointe's name DOES look out of place on that list. I've heard grumblings about Barber and the other three are always hot debates but Lapointe? Come on!

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11-19-2005, 04:16 PM
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I agree there should be many, many more of the Russian or European players given a shot, since it is indeed the HOCKEY Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame. Even if the NHL is the best league, players or coaches in other leagues who have been great ambassadors or inovators should be recognized. Luckily, a few have managed to get in in the past, and hopefully more will in the future. Now that average players like Gillies and Federko are in, and short-term very good players like Neely can make it, obviously Pavel Bure will make it, and Hasek and Fedorov and maybe even Igor Larionov in the future.

I was never convinced Lapointe was all that great, having watched him every other Saturday night throughout the 1970's on HNiC. He was definately 3rd of the "Big 3", and behind Salming, Ian Turnbull, and Potvin, Orr, & Park. IMHO, he is one of the first "bubble players" to make the HOF. Just because he won a lot of Cups doesn't necessarily make him a great. Ken Morrow won 4 Cups in 4 years, should he be put in right now? OK, JK on that one! I have no problem with Lapointe being in the HOF, but I would hope Slava Fetisov makes it, too, as he was at least as good as Lapointe, and still played quite a while at an effective level in the NHL (and won 2 Cups).

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11-19-2005, 09:20 PM
  #16
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Lapointe was better than Salming, and was more physical than Park, and had a better shot than any of the major D,except for Orr.Lapointe was a poised,calm D man from his rookie season on.He was a fantastic D man who richly deserves his honour, and comparing him to Ian Turnbull is an absurdity.

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11-19-2005, 11:21 PM
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Not really. They were pretty even defensively, and Turnbull may have been better offensively. But not by much, either way. And I watched them both play basically their entire careers.

I'm not saying Lapointe was bad. Of the names listed in the Hockey News article, he would be the last I would want to see out. But I think there were several better at the time. JMHO.

BTW, I don't think Larry Murphy could carry Lapointe's jock strap, yet he is revered.

Whatever.....

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11-19-2005, 11:50 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
In the most recent edition of The Hockey News there is an article form the editors suggesting that the Hall of Fame should induct more past Russian players. I agree only Tretiak and Kharlamov are in. I'd like to see Yakushev and at least Makarov in there too. So I have no argument there.

But in a paragraph it mentions that the Hall wont induct Russian player but rather sub-par stars like "Bob Pulford, Clark Gilles, Bernie Federko, Bill Barber and Guy Lapointe."

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Who's name is grossly out of place on that list? To me its Lapointe. Pulford and Gilles shouldnt be in there I agree. Federko, Hmm, I dont really know about that one. Barber I personally have no problem with being a Hall of Famer. He scored 40 goals or more 5 times, his high of 50. 420 goals in his career over 12 seasons and three post season all-star berths, not to mention two Cups.

Now to Lapointe. I have never heard anyone suggest anywhere that he isnt Hall of Fame worthy. How about this. 6 Cups, three post season all-star berths, twice over 70 points, mentioned as one of the big three on the Habs of the 70s, to me he's a legit HOFer and I've never heard any different. Anyone disagree? Its the first I ever heard of it.
I think part of the problem is the size of the selection committee. While the 18 members include some of the game's greatest minds, I don't think it's big enough. Baseball's HHOF has a 450-person committee. The HHOF actually has a tougher percentage requirement (14 of 18, or 77%, compared to 75% for baseball), but the size of baseball's selection committee (and the rather stringent standards of many voters) make it much tougher to get in. Those standards, in addition to the rich respect for the history of the game that exists in baseball (boxing and golf are the only ones that come close for respect for the history of the game), make Cooperstown so prestigious.

I think we're going to see more overseas stars inducted in the coming years.I don't think it's a coincidence that Kharlamov's long-clamoured-for induction was announced the same week that the Hall opened an expanded international exhibit area. It wouldn't surprise me to see a guy like Mikhailov or Yakushev inducted in 2006. Larionov will certainly go in 2008, and I think they're saving Makarov to go in with Larionov.

Gillies' induction is easily the most surprising and controversial over the last 10-15 years. He won four Cups, an impressive figure, and was key to a couple of them. (Although wasn't a top-five player on any of those Islander teams). He had a couple all-star seasons. But there wasn't a large public outcry to get him in the Hall (contrast that with, say, Ciccarelli, Neely or Anderson). Nobody complained when Gillies wasn't inducted.

Federko, IMO, doesn't belong in the Hall, but he had a lengthy, successful career, was a consistent point producer and had several strong playoffs.

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11-20-2005, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Not really. They were pretty even defensively, and Turnbull may have been better offensively. But not by much, either way. And I watched them both play basically their entire careers.

I'm not saying Lapointe was bad. Of the names listed in the Hockey News article, he would be the last I would want to see out. But I think there were several better at the time. JMHO.

BTW, I don't think Larry Murphy could carry Lapointe's jock strap, yet he is revered.

Whatever.....


Larry Murphy is not revered in Toronto. He got booed ferociously.

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11-20-2005, 01:28 AM
  #20
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Larry Murphy is in the Hall because of his excellent play in winning back-to-back Stanley Cups with two different organizations. (Pittsburgh in 1991 and 1992 and Detroit in 1997 and 1998). He had three second team all-star births, and he had a knack for stepping up his play in the playoffs. When Paul Coffey went down with an eye injury in 1991 (an injury that hampered him throughout the playoffs), Murphy picked up the offensive slack. Murphy was a consistent point producer throughout his career, and he was quite adept at playing in his own zone. His place in the Hall is unquestionable.

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11-20-2005, 07:09 PM
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I only really saw him play in his last 5 years (in Toronto & Detroit) and he was AWFUL! I never saw a D-man get so many shots blocked! Maybe it was because they were only going 40 miles-an-hour or something, but he needed a lot of help on BOTH ends of the ice by that time in his career. Because of the time zone difference, I never got to see him play in LA, and very little in Pittsburgh (until the playoffs would start), so I can't say anything about his play back then. He must have been pretty good to have scored as many points as he did his first few seasons, though.

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11-21-2005, 06:40 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
I agree there should be many, many more of the Russian or European players given a shot, since it is indeed the HOCKEY Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame. Even if the NHL is the best league, players or coaches in other leagues who have been great ambassadors or inovators should be recognized. Luckily, a few have managed to get in in the past, and hopefully more will in the future. Now that average players like Gillies and Federko are in, and short-term very good players like Neely can make it, obviously Pavel Bure will make it, and Hasek and Fedorov and maybe even Igor Larionov in the future.

I was never convinced Lapointe was all that great, having watched him every other Saturday night throughout the 1970's on HNiC. He was definately 3rd of the "Big 3", and behind Salming, Ian Turnbull, and Potvin, Orr, & Park. IMHO, he is one of the first "bubble players" to make the HOF. Just because he won a lot of Cups doesn't necessarily make him a great. Ken Morrow won 4 Cups in 4 years, should he be put in right now? OK, JK on that one! I have no problem with Lapointe being in the HOF, but I would hope Slava Fetisov makes it, too, as he was at least as good as Lapointe, and still played quite a while at an effective level in the NHL (and won 2 Cups).
Turnbull? A modern equivalent would be Bryan Berard.

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11-21-2005, 07:02 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
In the most recent edition of The Hockey News there is an article form the editors suggesting that the Hall of Fame should induct more past Russian players. I agree only Tretiak and Kharlamov are in. I'd like to see Yakushev and at least Makarov in there too. So I have no argument there.

But in a paragraph it mentions that the Hall wont induct Russian player but rather sub-par stars like "Bob Pulford, Clark Gilles, Bernie Federko, Bill Barber and Guy Lapointe."

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Who's name is grossly out of place on that list? To me its Lapointe. Pulford and Gilles shouldnt be in there I agree. Federko, Hmm, I dont really know about that one. Barber I personally have no problem with being a Hall of Famer. He scored 40 goals or more 5 times, his high of 50. 420 goals in his career over 12 seasons and three post season all-star berths, not to mention two Cups.

Now to Lapointe. I have never heard anyone suggest anywhere that he isnt Hall of Fame worthy. How about this. 6 Cups, three post season all-star berths, twice over 70 points, mentioned as one of the big three on the Habs of the 70s, to me he's a legit HOFer and I've never heard any different. Anyone disagree? Its the first I ever heard of it.

I think the HOF should lean towards more NHLers. Russians could have their own HOF since they played most their hockey there

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