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Verbeek or Gilmour in the HHOF?

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11-02-2005, 05:18 PM
  #1
Heat McManus
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Verbeek or Gilmour in the HHOF?

Ok, I watched my first game on OLN last night (Nov 1st - CHI vs DET). I didn't mind the camera work so much, why they have the game details on the bottom of the screen that large i will never know.
Anyway, between periods they had a piece on Cam Neely, afterwards they had a poll for the 2006 HHOF. Among the candidates were Pat Verbeek and Doug Gilmour (for some reason they listed Bure who is not even close to being elligible). Both Bill Clement and Keith Jones immediately picked Verbeek with PJ Stock was the voice of reason and chose Dougie G.
Is it just PJ and I who are seeing straight on this one? I think Pat Verbeek was a great versatile player, but I would rather have Gilmour in a heartbeat. He was by far a more complete player. Put it this way, would you rather have the "Next Doug Gilmour" or the "Next Pat Verbeek"? Here are their career stats if you'd like to compare.


http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=5565 - Verbeek

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php3?pid=1915 - Gilmour

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11-02-2005, 05:22 PM
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BrentZ10
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Actually, Bure played his last game in 2003, so he would be eligible for the Hall in 2006. I would vote in Gilmour over Verbeek also, but 522 career goals isn't something you can just overlook.

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11-02-2005, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentZ10
Actually, Bure played his last game in 2003, so he would be eligible for the Hall in 2006. I would vote in Gilmour over Verbeek also, but 522 career goals isn't something you can just overlook.
Pat Verbeek - NO

Doug Gilmour - YES (even though I despise him)

Frankly, I don`t think either case is debatable. They`re both no-brainers.

When did Bure officially retire? I believe that`s the when the 3 year wait starts, not when you last play. I asked this question on here before and somebody pointed out that although Mike Bossy`s last season was `86-`87, he didn`t officially retire until a year later, and wasn`t eligible for the Hall until `91.

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11-02-2005, 06:00 PM
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I read in THN a quote from the director of the Hall who said that is based on the last time a player played.

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11-02-2005, 06:33 PM
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11-02-2005, 06:39 PM
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Gilmour's got enough point totals to get in and gets a tremendous boost being an exLeaf.

Verbeek has got the goals, but not alot else.

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11-02-2005, 06:46 PM
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Based on precedent, Bure will not be eligible until 2008. Mike Bossy played his last game in 1987, but waited a year before retiring, and was elected to the HHOF in 1991. So unless there's been a rule change, Bure will have to wait.

As for the Gilmour vs. Verbeek debate: why is there even a debate? Doug Gilmour belongs in the Hall. It goes beyond statistical accomplishments. He was gritty. He was brilliant in the defensive zone. He won face-offs. He was a strong locker room presence. He could carry his team on his back for extended periods of time. He won a Stanley Cup with Calgary in 1989, and he had several other brilliant playoffs. (His play in the Leafs' 1994 playoffs is some of the gritties, gutsiest play I've ever seen).

Verbeek doesn't belong. I think very highly of him. He had some very good seasons, buit nothing that really stands out. (Except for maybe his play in 1995-96, when only injuries prevented a career year). He never let a lack of size get in the way, and he was known as "The Little Ball of Hate" for his fearless, gritty play. But 500 goals and 1,000 aren't automatic stats anymore. His only Cup win came in the twilight of his career. He never had that defining playoff. (Gilmour had several).

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11-02-2005, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
Gilmour's got enough point totals to get in and gets a tremendous boost being an exLeaf.
gritty two-way player and playoff performer as well, with a ton of heart

it's ridiculous that some people think he's only going to be in because he played for the Leafs

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11-02-2005, 08:43 PM
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lol verbeek or gilmour lol
Gilmour is a hockey god
whike verbeek is a little ball of hate

there is no comparrison

verbeek was never the main cog of a team's offense during any yr on any team while gilmour held that role in toronto stllouis and calgary


Last edited by Leaf Lander: 11-02-2005 at 09:05 PM.
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Old
11-02-2005, 11:15 PM
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Heat McManus
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So, PJ Stock has more brains than both Keith Jones and Bill Clement....wow, who knew?

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11-02-2005, 11:17 PM
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Douggie G is a players player.... does anything to win and can lead the way. one of my all time favourite players

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11-02-2005, 11:23 PM
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Gilmour is a first-ballot HOFer. No doubt about it.

Verbeek could get in if they had a really slow year.

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11-02-2005, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
gritty two-way player and playoff performer as well, with a ton of heart

it's ridiculous that some people think he's only going to be in because he played for the Leafs
Add stanley cup to those credentials.

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11-02-2005, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert
Gilmour is a first-ballot HOFer. No doubt about it.

Verbeek could get in if they had a really slow year.
They had a slow year this year. Verbeek didn't get in. Nor will he get in. 500 goals and 1,000 points are still significant milestones, but they aren't the locks they used to be. Heck, thanks to Dino Ciccarelli and Pierre Turgeon, respectively, 600 goals and 1,400 points won't be locks, either. It's not about how many points you score anymore, it's about how you score them.

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11-03-2005, 12:26 AM
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Verbeek, no.

Gilmour, yes. Better than average chance strictly on merit, the Leaf connection will guarantee it.

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11-03-2005, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Whole
Verbeek, no.

Gilmour, yes. Better than average chance strictly on merit, the Leaf connection will guarantee it.
will you ****, the leaf connection will guarantee it

why isnt clark in the hall of fame?

god i hate fans like you who blame everything on the leafs

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11-03-2005, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
As for the Gilmour vs. Verbeek debate: why is there even a debate? Doug Gilmour belongs in the Hall. It goes beyond statistical accomplishments. He was gritty. He was brilliant in the defensive zone. He won face-offs. He was a strong locker room presence. He could carry his team on his back for extended periods of time. He won a Stanley Cup with Calgary in 1989, and he had several other brilliant playoffs. (His play in the Leafs' 1994 playoffs is some of the gritties, gutsiest play I've ever seen).

Verbeek doesn't belong. I think very highly of him. He had some very good seasons, buit nothing that really stands out. (Except for maybe his play in 1995-96, when only injuries prevented a career year). He never let a lack of size get in the way, and he was known as "The Little Ball of Hate" for his fearless, gritty play. But 500 goals and 1,000 aren't automatic stats anymore. His only Cup win came in the twilight of his career. He never had that defining playoff. (Gilmour had several).
Agreed.

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11-03-2005, 07:26 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
They had a slow year this year. Verbeek didn't get in. Nor will he get in. 500 goals and 1,000 points are still significant milestones, but they aren't the locks they used to be. Heck, thanks to Dino Ciccarelli and Pierre Turgeon, respectively, 600 goals and 1,400 points won't be locks, either. It's not about how many points you score anymore, it's about how you score them.
Let's hope you're right once the I-scored-but-did-nothing-else guys are eligible...

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11-03-2005, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
gritty two-way player and playoff performer as well, with a ton of heart

it's ridiculous that some people think he's only going to be in because he played for the Leafs

I don't think he said that he's going in because he's a Leaf...
But that being a popular Leafs' a bonus.

Bonus doesn't equal the sole reason.

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11-03-2005, 08:42 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentZ10
Actually, Bure played his last game in 2003, so he would be eligible for the Hall in 2006. I would vote in Gilmour over Verbeek also, but 522 career goals isn't something you can just overlook.

No, because he announced about his retirement just recently, So Bure is eligible in 2008.

Same goes to players who played their last season in 2003-04. Oates and Larionov announced their retirement instantly after the season so they will go in 2007. Messier, Francis, Stevens and MacInnis are eligible in 2008 with Hull and Bure.

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Old
11-03-2005, 09:08 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin
I don't think he said that he's going in because he's a Leaf...
But that being a popular Leafs' a bonus.

Bonus doesn't equal the sole reason.
Can anyone clarify how the voting procedure for the Hall of Fame ?

Cause it seems that the voting panel is comprised solely of ex-Leaf players, MLSE staff and Toronto area journalists.

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Old
11-03-2005, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Can anyone clarify how the voting procedure for the Hall of Fame ?

Cause it seems that the voting panel is comprised solely of ex-Leaf players, MLSE staff and Toronto area journalists.
Yeah, I think that's how it works. That's why there's been so many Leafs inducted in the past decade or so. Larry Murphy, Grant Fuhr, Mike Gartner...clearly in the hall because of their status as Maple Leafs. And is it any coincidence that Ron Francis will make it in? I think not.

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Old
11-03-2005, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Can anyone clarify how the voting procedure for the Hall of Fame ?

Cause it seems that the voting panel is comprised solely of ex-Leaf players, MLSE staff and Toronto area journalists.
Here it is:
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/indselect.htm

The only "Leaf guy" on there is Pat Quinn. Quite a few more "Habs guys" actually (Yvon Pedneault, Dirk Irvin, Serge Savard, Frank Selke)

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Old
11-03-2005, 02:39 PM
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Heat McManus
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Crazy prediction:

The powers that be see past his inept play at both ends of the rink as well as his universal lack of popularity and make Wade Belak apart of the 2012 HHOF draft class citing his long tenure as a Leaf

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Old
11-03-2005, 03:04 PM
  #25
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Gilmour is a lock HOFer in my book....maybe not first ballot (not sure who he goes up with his first time) but he is in.....

Verbeek....not so much. He was a good player you want on your team.....but no HOF in his future

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