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Ultra Mega Trade Proposal: OTT-CAR-SJ

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Old
11-21-2005, 11:40 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by iceberg1984
terrible trade keep dreaming you sens fans think your players are so valuable for these other players then why do you want to get rid of them huh? why don't you add Staal and brind'amour there not its even
Ok try again, but now explain it so the rest of us can understand.

Exactly how are these trades not fair?

You seem to kind of believe that Havlat+1st+Lyamin isn't worth Cole+Williams+Vrbata, and I'm just wondering how you came to that conclusion.

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11-22-2005, 08:48 AM
  #27
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The best player in the Carolina-Ottawa deal is Havlat, and I say by a fair margin. Add a first going to Carolina, and I think it's a good trade for the 'canes.

The trouble, as others have pointed out, is that neither fo these teams would be looking to deal right now, what with being (and I didn't check this, so don't kill me if I'm off a little) 1-2 in the east. So it's not realistic. No crime there, this is just a proposal board, it's not like anything proposed here is actually going to happen. They're both decent trades in terms of value and filling team needs for all the teams involved, so props to the guy who wrote them.

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11-22-2005, 03:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Squeaky
The best player in the Carolina-Ottawa deal is Havlat, and I say by a fair margin. Add a first going to Carolina, and I think it's a good trade for the 'canes.
xbox melrosian logic. we dont want to trade cole. we also dont want to trade williams. we're 14-5. why are we trading both for one player and a pick? not to mention, canes fans wouldnt agree that havlat is a better player than cole if they are playing on the canes. no one on the canes comes close to doing what cole does, and havlat wouldnt help that. would he be our most talented winger? sure. but we already have talented wingers. stop looking at the video game value and look at what the trades do to the teams. ottawa would win the trade because they would get 2 valueable wingers that would upgrade their speed and toughness, without taking apart the best line in the league. losing havlat for a gain like this is no loss. why does a first round pick of the best team in the league in what is said to be a weak, top heavy draft sway this deal towards the canes? theyre in first place in their division and still have ladd, johnson, peters, and richmond on the way. why are they doing rebuild trades like this, that include rebuild players like williams? just not seeing how the canes win just cuz they get havlat.

i know we're just having fun with proposals, but the assumption the canes win this is ridiculous.

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11-22-2005, 04:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen
xbox melrosian logic. we dont want to trade cole. we also dont want to trade williams. we're 14-5. why are we trading both for one player and a pick? not to mention, canes fans wouldnt agree that havlat is a better player than cole if they are playing on the canes. no one on the canes comes close to doing what cole does, and havlat wouldnt help that. would he be our most talented winger? sure. but we already have talented wingers. stop looking at the video game value and look at what the trades do to the teams. ottawa would win the trade because they would get 2 valueable wingers that would upgrade their speed and toughness, without taking apart the best line in the league. losing havlat for a gain like this is no loss. why does a first round pick of the best team in the league in what is said to be a weak, top heavy draft sway this deal towards the canes? theyre in first place in their division and still have ladd, johnson, peters, and richmond on the way. why are they doing rebuild trades like this, that include rebuild players like williams? just not seeing how the canes win just cuz they get havlat.

i know we're just having fun with proposals, but the assumption the canes win this is ridiculous.
Wow, it's almost like you read the first sentence of what I said, then completely ignored the next 5 that explained why the deal won't happen. I'd debate the rest of your post but...it just doesn't seem worth it.

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11-22-2005, 04:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
canes fans wouldnt agree that havlat is a better player than cole if they are playing on the canes.
ottawa would win the trade because they would get 2 valueable wingers that would upgrade their speed and toughness, without taking apart the best line in the league. losing havlat for a gain like this is no loss. why does a first round pick of the best team in the league in what is said to be a weak, top heavy draft sway this deal towards the canes?
- Umm, ok.

This trade would gut your depth, but Ottawa doesn't win this either.
We're much better off with Havlat and Schaefer on the 2nd line than with any 2 of those players being offered.

Cole- Vermette- Williams... there goes our secondary scoring. That's a checking line.
Vrbata, where does he even play?

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11-22-2005, 06:26 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
- Umm, ok.

This trade would gut your depth, but Ottawa doesn't win this either.
We're much better off with Havlat and Schaefer on the 2nd line than with any 2 of those players being offered.

Cole- Vermette- Williams... there goes our secondary scoring. That's a checking line.
Vrbata, where does he even play?
the deal i was responding to didnt have vrbata, i was only responding to the williams/cole part mentioned earlier. obviously we feel differently about our teams players. i wouldnt want havlat for cole and williams, period. i wouldnt want havlat for cole, personally. cole can definitely play on a scoring line, in fact ...he is.

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11-22-2005, 07:00 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
the deal i was responding to didnt have vrbata, i was only responding to the williams/cole part mentioned earlier. obviously we feel differently about our teams players. i wouldnt want havlat for cole and williams, period. i wouldnt want havlat for cole, personally. cole can definitely play on a scoring line, in fact ...he is.
There is only 1 deal here and it included Vrbata & Lyamin.

Vermette plays on a scoring line, doesn't mean he can carry it. Actually, the more I look at it... Cole, Vermette and Williams are all the "3rd guy", the complimentary guy on their lines aren't they. That would be horrible line. None of those guys can carry the offense, Havlat can.
Cole would be a great complimentary player to have on an offensive line. The best of anybody mentioned here. But if he's ever "the guy"... it's a checking line.

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11-22-2005, 08:12 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senator
To Ottawa: Erik Cole + Justin Williams + Radim Vrbata (All RFA's at year end)
To Carolina: Martin Havlat (RFA) + '06 1st Rd. Pick + Kirill Lyamin
----------
here's the offer, and im talking about williams and cole. to me the vrbata lyamin part is irrelevant. it doesnt get past cole and williams. if you add the whole thing together ou have three guys off of carolinas roster for one. i dont care who the prospect and pick is - ottawa wins this thrade, no canes fan would do it.

cole "is" a nice complimentery guy, not so much a "would be", on the first line. he has two assists against the sens tonight. primary assists. he generally is much more than a "complimentary" guy on the line.

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11-22-2005, 09:02 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
here's the offer, and im talking about williams and cole. to me the vrbata lyamin part is irrelevant. it doesnt get past cole and williams. if you add the whole thing together ou have three guys off of carolinas roster for one. i dont care who the prospect and pick is - ottawa wins this thrade, no canes fan would do it.

cole "is" a nice complimentery guy, not so much a "would be", on the first line. he has two assists against the sens tonight. primary assists. he generally is much more than a "complimentary" guy on the line.
Ottawa doesn't win either of these. Stripping your depth and reducing our top end talent does nothing for either team.
Adding depth to Ottawa in the form of Vrbata, Williams or Cole... such that we have to throw away Peter Schaefer in another deal, makes no sense for Ottawa.

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11-23-2005, 04:13 AM
  #35
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so we're in agreement, the deal sucks.

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Old
11-23-2005, 05:15 AM
  #36
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San Jose wouldn't do this deal - it wont help them as it's like doing a line combo experiment with current Shark players. Schaefer is nothing we dont already have a logjam of, and Phillips saves us pocket change in exchange for our proven and home grown Hannan.

More importantly, why would Ottawa want Cole when San Jose could give them Sturm : a PK guru and perennial 2 way defensive threat with better speed, shorthanded scoring ability and a promise of 28+goals or more? (check Sturm's career stats vs Coles).

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11-23-2005, 10:28 AM
  #37
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As a Canes fan I don't do this deal either. I don't know that we win this deal hands down. We lose 3 wingers and only gain 1 roster player is the first problem. Second I don't know that Havlat brings more to the table than Cole. Cole is finally having that breakout season and does more for this team on every level than any other player on the Canes probably. Williams is probably playing the best hockey of his life right now and is just getting better. Vrbata still hasn't lived up to expectations but if he can be an effective third liner and chip in offensivley, he's doing his part. The first rounder is nice for the Canes too but I'd rather keep the players we have than get Havlat.

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Old
11-23-2005, 12:43 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney
Couldn't agree more, Shaef is the most under-rated player on our team and I would be extremely upset if they moved him.

Yeah I agree , Shaeffer is a 2nd liner IMO

I've seen him play and I could say he would make 2nd line on some teams .

 
Old
11-23-2005, 03:40 PM
  #39
bleedgreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5

More importantly, why would Ottawa want Cole when San Jose could give them Sturm : a PK guru and perennial 2 way defensive threat with better speed, shorthanded scoring ability and a promise of 28+goals or more? (check Sturm's career stats vs Coles).
i know im a homer canes fan, but i thnk youd be crazy to want sturm over cole. i dont care about career stats, cole become the player everyone thought he could be - i wouldnt trade him for sturm. marco hasnt looked very good this year at all.

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11-23-2005, 04:36 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
i know im a homer canes fan, but i thnk youd be crazy to want sturm over cole. i dont care about career stats, cole become the player everyone thought he could be - i wouldnt trade him for sturm. marco hasnt looked very good this year at all.
Yeah because the Sharks are collectively slumping and the Canes overachieving. Of course a utility guy like Cole will look good now.

Most GM's know better than taking Cole over Sturm. A Cole can be picked up at the corner store, but Sturm is a Lehtinen.

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11-23-2005, 05:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
Most GM's know better than taking Cole over Sturm. A Cole can be picked up at the corner store, but Sturm is a Lehtinen.
But more importantly... Ottawa already has speedy, two-way, playmaking, highlight-reel goalscoring Peter Schaefer in that same role on the 2nd line.
It's working, we're happy and there's no reason for Ottawa to make a deal like this.

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11-23-2005, 08:14 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary
But more importantly... Ottawa already has speedy, two-way, playmaking, highlight-reel goalscoring Peter Schaefer in that same role on the 2nd line.
It's working, we're happy and there's no reason for Ottawa to make a deal like this.
Right because God knows Ottawa wouldn't want a faster 2 way threat with more goal scoring upside than Cole to replace Havlat if Muckler was intent on moving him. Who needs two of those? Anything but that..

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11-23-2005, 08:25 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
Right because God knows Ottawa wouldn't want a faster 2 way threat with more goal scoring upside than Cole to replace Havlat if Muckler was intent on moving him. Who needs two of those? Anything but that..
I wasn't thinking of the deal in terms of throwing away Havlat. I was thinking of what we'd want to acquire to make the team better.
In this case, I'd much rather keep Havlat.

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11-24-2005, 01:11 AM
  #44
bleedgreen
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Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
Yeah because the Sharks are collectively slumping and the Canes overachieving. Of course a utility guy like Cole will look good now.

Most GM's know better than taking Cole over Sturm. A Cole can be picked up at the corner store, but Sturm is a Lehtinen.
wow. dont watch the canes much, eh? name me the other cole's to be found at the corner store. utility guy. only good because the canes are overacheiving. done wasting my time here. bet cole does just as well if not better than sturm statistically, with imo better intangibles.

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11-24-2005, 01:44 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush5Collapse5
Yeah because the Sharks are collectively slumping and the Canes overachieving. Of course a utility guy like Cole will look good now.

Most GM's know better than taking Cole over Sturm. A Cole can be picked up at the corner store, but Sturm is a Lehtinen.
At the same salary I'd take Cole over Sturm.

3 years ago Cole could be picked up at the corner store, but not anymore. He's a perfect 1st line grinder to compliment skill guys like Staal. He's got the speed to keep up and the offensive ability to bury his chances. After his performance this year he's up there with guys like Doan, IMO.

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11-24-2005, 04:47 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Senator
At the same salary I'd take Cole over Sturm.

3 years ago Cole could be picked up at the corner store, but not anymore. He's a perfect 1st line grinder to compliment skill guys like Staal. He's got the speed to keep up and the offensive ability to bury his chances. After his performance this year he's up there with guys like Doan, IMO.
You take Cole for Havlat and end up sobbing, and we'll either keep Sturm and let him add to his 14 shorthanded goals and repeat his 28 goal season, or move him in a prospect/pick package deal for a marquee 1st liner. Everyone's happy,.. well almost everyone.

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11-24-2005, 08:16 AM
  #47
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Ah, neglected shark fans. Someone finally talks about one of their players, they get offended and get fussy. I'd take Cole over Sturm in a trade for Havlat anyday of the week. Sure, Sturm is a short hander master, but hell it looks like Havlat is too. Sturm and Havlat are quite similar except, Sturm is older and worse. At least if we traded Havlat for Cole we'd get someone with a little bit of guts, and I've been very impressed with his scoring abilities this year. but that isn't the only thing he brings to a team, which is why he is valuable. Ether way, Cole or Sturm straight up for Havlat, no chance.

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11-24-2005, 01:04 PM
  #48
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I think it's funny how guys sit here and suggest trade deals when the only people that CAN do these deals are GMs. Then argue there point when other people don't agree. You could argue about trade value or number until the cows come home. You need to get a grip and leave this kind of thing to the guys who know what they're doing. i.e. Team management.

Go play nhl2005 if you want to deal players. This is useless and stupid.

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11-24-2005, 01:19 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Bloodline
I think it's funny how guys sit here and suggest trade deals when the only people that CAN do these deals are GMs. Then argue there point when other people don't agree. You could argue about trade value or number until the cows come home. You need to get a grip and leave this kind of thing to the guys who know what they're doing. i.e. Team management.

Go play nhl2005 if you want to deal players. This is useless and stupid.
Do you live in a glass house?

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11-24-2005, 01:22 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Squeaky
Do you live in a glass house?
The hell are you talking about?

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