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Who is the greatest Maple Leaf ever?

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Old
11-22-2005, 11:46 AM
  #26
Bring Back Bucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
Jonus Hoglund.

No love for Bob Manno???

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Old
11-22-2005, 11:59 AM
  #27
BM67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Here's an interesting webpage:


http://www.tmlfans.ca/misc/top25.php

"A list of 14 esteemed hockey experts got together over the summer of 2001 and came up with a list of the top 25 Leafs players of all time. The committee of experts included: Milt Dunnell, George Gross, Scott Morrison, John Iaboni, Frank Orr and Brian McFarlane, Joe Bowen, Howie Meeker, Harry Neale, Mark Askin, Jim Gregory, Dan Diamond, Tommy Smythe and Frank Selke Jr. "
I'd say Joe Primeau is the one name that is glaringly missing.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:01 PM
  #28
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Ted Kennedy

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:06 PM
  #29
John Flyers Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
One name really doesn't belong on that list. BM67's list covers most the important names. Put Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark ahead of Sundin on any great Leafs list. If this makes sense, Sundin has been a great player, but not necessarily a great Leaf.
Sundin is so much better than Clark it's laughable.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:10 PM
  #30
God Bless Canada
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One name not mentioned yet (outside of the top 100 NHL list): King Clancy. A rock on the blueline and a class act off the ice.

As for the Sundin debate: What's missing from his portfolio is not only has he not led the Leafs to the Cup, he's never carried the team on his back in the playoffs. His production usually declines in the post-season. Gilmour never led the Leafs to the Cup, but in 1993 and especially in 1994, he carried the Leafs. The 1994 Leafs don't get past San Jose without Gilmour. Sundin's never done that. In 1999, CuJo was the playoff guy. They reached the conference final in 2002, but that was with Sundin injured for most of the post-season. Until Sundin has that defining post-season, he'll have his detractors.

Regular season success doesn't really mean much if a star can't carry his team in the playoffs.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:14 PM
  #31
BlueAndWhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
One name not mentioned yet (outside of the top 100 NHL list): King Clancy. A rock on the blueline and a class act off the ice.
The problem with Clancy is that he spent a good chunk of his career with Ottawa, until Smythe bought him with his gambling winnings.

It's hard to determine if Clancy qualifies as a Leaf player or as a Senators player.

His four all-star seasons were in Toronto, however.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:15 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
You forgot to highlight Norm Ullman.





Points isn't the only method for measuring success.

* Gilmour, almost singlehandedly, led a few less-than-exceptionally talented Leafs teams to Conference Finals, at a time when they were still recovering from the damage of Hurricane Harold.

* Clark's motivation was 100% every shift .

Sundin was fortunate to play in Toronto during a free-spending times, for years, on teams loaded with talent. Did he help make his teammates play better like Gilmour? Did he dedicate himself to the game and the team the way Clark did?

Sundin's heart has been brought into question many times...and with good reason.
Couldnt have said it better myself. Well done.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:19 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
One name really doesn't belong on that list. BM67's list covers most the important names. Put Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark ahead of Sundin on any great Leafs list. If this makes sense, Sundin has been a great player, but not necessarily a great Leaf.

tell that to leaf fans
sundin will be in the top 5 leafs of all time when his career is over

outsiders views of the leafs are normally tainted with hate and jealousy thusa corrupting the argument

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:22 PM
  #34
God Bless Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
The problem with Clancy is that he spent a good chunk of his career with Ottawa, until Smythe bought him with his gambling winnings.

It's hard to determine if Clancy qualifies as a Leaf player or as a Senators player.

His four all-star seasons were in Toronto, however.
But nowhere does it say it's the greatest Leaf player. (Even though it may be implied). Clancy was a Leaf for more than four decades, first as a very successful player, then as a member of the organization. All things considered, he should be right up there.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:30 PM
  #35
BlueAndWhite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
But nowhere does it say it's the greatest Leaf player. (Even though it may be implied). Clancy was a Leaf for more than four decades, first as a very successful player, then as a member of the organization. All things considered, he should be right up there.
I think everyone agreed that we were talking about players, otherwise names like Smythe would have been brought up already.

Geroge Armstrong is a notable omission thus far.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:39 PM
  #36
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im not using points as the only example but over the last 10 years it seems to me that Mats Sundin is the heart and soul of the team

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11-22-2005, 12:40 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
im not using points as the only example but over the last 10 years it seems to me that Mats Sundin is the heart and soul of the team
I wouldn't go back that far, but for a long time - he HAS been the heart and soul of the Leafs.

It's funny how every Leaf fan in this thread seems to agree that Sundin is deserving.

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Old
11-22-2005, 12:45 PM
  #38
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I'd have to go with Clancy and/or Armstrong.

Both epitomize so many of the ideals of the game, one they played out of affection, not out of avarice.

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Old
11-22-2005, 01:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Sundin's heart has only been questioned by the meatheads who can't deal with a European captain, particulary a finesse player. The same meatheads that have posters of Don Cherry in their homes. The same meatheads that call in after Leaf games and would rather have Domi be the captain. The same meatheads that resent Sundin that he was traded for their hero, Wendel Clark (a good Canadian kid!!)..
So you vote Liberal or NDP? This "finesse European" business is childish at best. (For the record, fellow Swede, Peter Forsberg plays a game that is quite well-adapted to the North American style of play.) When has any hockey fan ever stood up and said, "dammit, I don't appreciate skill!"

Since you brought it up: THN ran a series of Q&A's from players anonymously a few years back. That allowed for many candid responses. One player said that there are certain European players who would be more interested in going back to their countries to win the World Championship than the Stanley Cup. Ya think Sundin might fit the profile?

When he was with the Sabres, Michael Peca used to say that all it took was a few early bumps to take Alexei Yashin out of a playoff game. Peca achieved similar results with Sundin.

Were your parents even dating when Wendel Clark was drafted? Ask some of the people around you about him. You probably weren't old enough to appreciate Gilmour's value either. The Leafs were a laughingstock for years. NOBODY did more to rescue the franchise in the early 90's. Whatever accolades you can dole out to Sundin, more credit is due to Gilmour for his value to the organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
Here's another tidbit for you:

Sundin has the most game winning goals in Leafs history and he's got about 4 years of hockey left.
Good for him. Then he'll have had a decade and a half to elevate the team. The results will still be the same: no parade down Yonge St.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Sundin is so much better than Clark it's laughable.
The thread is about who's a better Leaf. Not a better scorer. Not more photogenic. It means different things to different people. If the concept was so laughable, Wendel Clark's name wouldn't even have appeared among the top 25 from the 14 experts on the link that BAW provided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habs_24x
Couldnt have said it better myself. Well done.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
outsiders views of the leafs are normally tainted with hate and jealousy thusa corrupting the argument
Now there's a real informed opinion.


Last edited by Badger Bob: 11-22-2005 at 01:39 PM.
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Old
11-22-2005, 02:27 PM
  #40
shakes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
Since you brought it up: THN ran a series of Q&A's from players anonymously a few years back. That allowed for many candid responses. One player said that there are certain European players who would be more interested in going back to their countries to win the World Championship than the Stanley Cup. Ya think Sundin might fit the profile?
Certain? Did they mention Sundin? If they didn't what does this have to do with anything?

Quote:
When he was with the Sabres, Michael Peca used to say that all it took was a few early bumps to take Alexei Yashin out of a playoff game. Peca achieved similar results with Sundin.
Nice story.. to bad it really has nothing to do with anything either. Peca has had similar results with a lot of centres.

Quote:
Were your parents even dating when Wendel Clark was drafted? Ask some of the people around you about him. You probably weren't old enough to appreciate Gilmour's value either. The Leafs were a laughingstock for years. NOBODY did more to rescue the franchise in the early 90's. Whatever accolades you can dole out to Sundin, more credit is due to Gilmour for his value to the organization.
Yeh, I guess Felix Potvin, Grant Fuhr, 50 goal score Dave Andreychuk, Sylvain Lefebvre, Jamie Macoun, Dave Ellett, Todd Gill, Mike Foligno, Glenn Anderson, John Cullen and Mr 100% himself Wendel Clark had nothing to do with that. All Gilmour.. right.. Hell, even Rob friggin Pearson scored 23 goals that year. As for the playoffs? People remember Gilmour scoring the goal in double OT, but who was the goalie that got them there? Potvin had a 2.84 and 2.46 GAA which was an excellent GAA, especially back then.



Quote:
Good for him. Then he'll have had a decade and a half to elevate the team. The results will still be the same: no parade down Yonge St.
As opposed to when Gilmour and Clark led their teams in a Stanley Cup Parade down Yonge St?

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Old
11-22-2005, 02:31 PM
  #41
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Man, that defence in 92/93 was rock solid. Didn't score much, but they rarely got scored on. Only the Hawks were better in GA.

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Old
11-22-2005, 02:33 PM
  #42
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Aki Berg

Right now it's probably Sittler, or someone like Keon, Aps or Clancy.

I'll go on record and say it that by the time he's done Sundin will be the best and will probably have the team record in Goals, assists, and points.

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Old
11-22-2005, 08:45 PM
  #43
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Shayne Corson epitomized what the Leafs tradition is all about.

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Old
11-22-2005, 09:18 PM
  #44
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Quote:
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Shayne Corson epitomized what the Leafs tradition is all about.

42 mostly decent, all civil posts and then chaunch arrives with his ignorance.

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Old
11-22-2005, 09:49 PM
  #45
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Old
11-22-2005, 09:50 PM
  #46
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When his career is done, Mats Sundin

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Old
11-22-2005, 09:52 PM
  #47
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i don't care what anyone says, mats sundin has to be up there. i don't see why anyone would argue otherwise, but as we all know, there are plenty that do.
how can people question his heart? he was just recently quoted saying that if he was to ever win the cup it would be in toronto. http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/sport/...733719,00.html. he's decidated to this city, and the maple leafs. i don't see why he gets so little respect as a leader...he is the heart of this team.
by the end of his career he'll most likely be the all time leaf points, goals, and games played leader if i'm not mistaken, and a legitimate hall of famer. not one of the elites of all time, but he should get in.
and how does this keep him from being among, if not the best leaf ever?

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Old
11-22-2005, 09:58 PM
  #48
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Top Leafs in my time- Keon, Sittler, Salming, Gilmour, Sundin. Now check the lifetime Leaf stats, all but Gilmour are among Leaf leaders.

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Old
11-22-2005, 10:43 PM
  #49
Sebastien Centomo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
In the end, though, the Leafs do have the most important number of all: 11. That's for Stanley Cups, second only to Montreal. I'd rather have 11 Stanley Cups and lesser players on my all-time team, than three or four Cups and a plethora of all-time greats (witness Boston and Chicago).
13 Cups.

The Arenas, St. Pats and Leafs are the same franchise. Neither the Arenas or St. Pats folded, their names were changed.

It's no differant than the Owen Sound Platers/Attack, same franchise, differant name.

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Old
11-24-2005, 01:04 AM
  #50
Leaf Lander
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the blue shirts also won a cup in toronto many of those players went on to play for the arenas then the st pats

the teams owner of the blueshirts was the george steinbrenner of his day

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