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Better all-time player: Clarke vs. Yzerman

View Poll Results: Better all-time player?
Bobby Clarke 14 33.33%
Steve Yzerman 28 66.67%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-24-2005, 02:46 AM
  #1
joe_shannon_1983*
 
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Better all-time player: Clarke vs. Yzerman

Which of these players was a better all-time player?

I pick Clarke.

Clarke was a supremely great overall player. Yzerman was a a great overall player too, but Clarke was probably even better due to his superior toughness.

Plus, Clarke matched the team success of Yzerman, but also had more individual success (more awards and all-star teams).

Who do you pick though?

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11-24-2005, 04:24 AM
  #2
Evilo
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Yzerman would have been an MVP if not for the two best forwards of all time playing in the same era.
He put up some serious point totals in the 80s and learnt how to sacrifice for the team after that.
Clarke, no matter how you slice it, is a dirty player.

I pick Yzerman.

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11-24-2005, 07:39 AM
  #3
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As good as Yzerman is, and he has been good for 21 years+ now. Clarke was better in his prime. I mean he won the Hart trophy in 72/73 with 104 pts. Orr scored 101 that year and did not win.

In 74/75 Clarke again won the Hart with 27goals and 116 pts while Orr led the league in scoring and had 46 goals and 135 pts and was not MVP.

So twice he beat Orr in his prime for the MVP with the same or less offence, and he was a centre. That is astounding! I didn't watch hockey then but that seems to me to indicate that Clarke was one of the best players ever at his peak.

Yzerman has more longetivity and 1 more cup, but Clarke has clearly a far higher peak. He was MVP 3 times, Beating Orr and Lafleur at their peaks. I'd take Clarke over Yzerman.

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11-24-2005, 09:01 AM
  #4
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Erh, Yzerman put up more than 150 points.

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11-24-2005, 09:06 AM
  #5
VanIslander
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Let's do some math: Y-B=2
Yzerman minus Bowman equals second highest goal scorer in NHL history.
Scotty made him the complete player. He would have gotten 700 goals otherwise.
He was THAT good.

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11-24-2005, 10:48 AM
  #6
BM67
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Y-B=0
Yzerman minus Bowman is also likely to equal 0 Stanley Cups, 0 Selkes, and 0 Conn Smythes.

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Old
11-24-2005, 11:03 AM
  #7
ACC1224
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That's like picking between Mother Theresa and Tanya Harding. Vast differences between the two, one is Scum the other a Saint but both excel in those roles. Choosing which one depends on the role that's needed.

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11-24-2005, 11:16 AM
  #8
octopi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224
That's like picking between Mother Theresa and Tanya Harding. Vast differences between the two, one is Scum the other a Saint but both excel in those roles. Choosing which one depends on the role that's needed.
Interesting analogy

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11-24-2005, 11:25 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224
That's like picking between Mother Theresa and Tanya Harding. Vast differences between the two, one is Scum the other a Saint but both excel in those roles. Choosing which one depends on the role that's needed.
I would say it's more like Eisenhower vs Gengis Khan.

Clarke is Khan of course. But he's considered one of the greatest Captains in the history of team sports, while Tanya Harding really never was great at what she did.

I don't really see how anyone is going to pick one over the other though.

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11-24-2005, 11:46 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
I would say it's more like Eisenhower vs Gengis Khan.

Clarke is Khan of course. But he's considered one of the greatest Captains in the history of team sports, while Tanya Harding really never was great at what she did.

I don't really see how anyone is going to pick one over the other though.
Obviously I was joking although her(being behind the) slash on Kerrigan is similar to Clarkes in 72, whatever it takes to win.

As far as Tanya never being great I guess you've never seen the "video".

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11-24-2005, 11:55 AM
  #11
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Clarke. One of the ultimate combinations of skill, grit and leadership in the history of the game. IMO, he's one of the top 10 centres of all-time. Clarke has a slight edge when it comes to hockey sense, defensive acumen, physical play and leadership. Yzerman is a slightly better stickhandler, goal scorer and well, let's face it, just a classier guy. You may not agree with Clarke's conduct or opinions, but there's no denying his place in the game.

Outside of the obvious choices (Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Richard, Howe, Beliveau), I can't think of another player I'd want on the ice for a Game 7 than Bobby Clarke.

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11-24-2005, 01:06 PM
  #12
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Good question. I picked Clarke.

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Old
11-24-2005, 02:01 PM
  #13
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Clarke was my favorite player when I was kid and still one of my all time favs. They are both the ultimate definition of having a "C" on your jersey. Both great leaders both could pass and score the big goal when needed. But I would have to give the nod to Clarke on the being the more physical presence. If I was starting an "All Time" team I would pick Clarke first but if I was starting a team tomorrow in todays NHL it would be hard not to pick Stevie Y.

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11-24-2005, 02:36 PM
  #14
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A better comparison would be Clarke vs. Messier. Both played the same type of game.

This is a hard one to guage. Both played in different eras. Clarke played in one that was ripe with expansion teams and the fact that every player dropped the gloves.

Stevie Y played for a truly horrible team for the first few years of his career in a league that was dominated by offense.
And I like how someone pointed out that Stevie never won any Hart or Art Ross trophies because he was competing against the two greatest forwards of all time.
But I must remind people that Stevie did receive the Lester B. Pearson award in the season he racked up 155 points. According to his peers he was considered more valuable to his team than the Great Wayne Gretzky (168 pts) and Mario Lemieux (199 pts). I think that says a lot.

And I also like how someone pointed out that if Bowman didn't turn him into a 2 way centre he would have continued scoring 50+ goals a year. Sure, maybe he doesn't have Stanley Cups but I still think he would have.

Because I'm a Wings slappy, I'll choose Stevie Y. But I'm also choosing him because if I were to start a franchise and I had a choice between an 18 year old Yzerman and an 18 year old Clarke I'd want Stevie Y to represent my franchise.

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11-24-2005, 02:44 PM
  #15
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This is close, but Clarke wins it for me. Yes Yzerman won three Cups compared to Clarke's two, but in Clarke's prime he won three Hart Trophies and was a first team all-star twice, while being second team twice as well. Yzerman has a Pearson Trophy and a First team all-star in '00. He may of had 155 points one year but Clarke was more complete in his prime, Yzerman nearly got traded remember cause he couldnt lead the Wings in the post season and because of his shabby defensive work. Yzerman became more complete after '96 when he was past his best years yet he still didnt win a Selke, Clarke did in '83.

Love him or hate him, and for me its the latter, Clarke is a bit better than Yzerman.

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11-24-2005, 02:58 PM
  #16
Hank19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
This is close, but Clarke wins it for me. Yes Yzerman won three Cups compared to Clarke's two, but in Clarke's prime he won three Hart Trophies and was a first team all-star twice, while being second team twice as well. Yzerman has a Pearson Trophy and a First team all-star in '00. He may of had 155 points one year but Clarke was more complete in his prime, Yzerman nearly got traded remember cause he couldnt lead the Wings in the post season and because of his shabby defensive work. Yzerman became more complete after '96 when he was past his best years yet he still didnt win a Selke, Clarke did in '83.

Love him or hate him, and for me its the latter, Clarke is a bit better than Yzerman.
Stevie actually won Selke in '00.

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11-24-2005, 03:31 PM
  #17
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Clarke, and it's not that close.

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11-24-2005, 03:36 PM
  #18
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In history draft #3 on this board I was able to use my first three rounds to pick:

1st Messier,
2nd Clarke,
3rd Yzerman,

in that order. Darn dominating core of forwards if you ask me. And that was the order of their value.

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Old
11-24-2005, 03:54 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank19
A better comparison would be Clarke vs. Messier. Both played the same type of game.

This is a hard one to guage. Both played in different eras. Clarke played in one that was ripe with expansion teams and the fact that every player dropped the gloves.

Stevie Y played for a truly horrible team for the first few years of his career in a league that was dominated by offense.
And I like how someone pointed out that Stevie never won any Hart or Art Ross trophies because he was competing against the two greatest forwards of all time.
But I must remind people that Stevie did receive the Lester B. Pearson award in the season he racked up 155 points. According to his peers he was considered more valuable to his team than the Great Wayne Gretzky (168 pts) and Mario Lemieux (199 pts). I think that says a lot.

And I also like how someone pointed out that if Bowman didn't turn him into a 2 way centre he would have continued scoring 50+ goals a year. Sure, maybe he doesn't have Stanley Cups but I still think he would have.

Because I'm a Wings slappy, I'll choose Stevie Y. But I'm also choosing him because if I were to start a franchise and I had a choice between an 18 year old Yzerman and an 18 year old Clarke I'd want Stevie Y to represent my franchise.
The Pearson is actually for the BEST player in the league, as chosen by the players, not the most valuable. There is a stark difference. (I've always thought Lemieux deserved the Pearson in 1989 while Yzerman should have received the Hart, but that's another argument for another time).

What has cemented Yzerman's place in the all-time top 50 has been his late career playoff success, not the Selke, the Olympic gold or the first-team all-star selection in 2000. He was in the 70s for the THN top 100 despite the Pearson, the 100 point seasons, and the success surrounded by mediocrity. Those three Cups and the Conn Smythe (as well as his all-out performance in the 2002 playoffs) have really elevated him. (Again, proof of the importance of post-season success). It's rare to see a player make such a move in his 30s.

But I'd still take Clarke. If I were starting a team, I'd take him. More physical, better defensively, better leader. (Last two aren't by much). And if I'm in Game 7 of a playoff series, there are very, very few forwards I would take ahead of Clarke.

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Old
11-24-2005, 05:18 PM
  #20
VanIslander
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Which one to choose to build a franchise?

Well, if I already had a Dale Hunter then I'd add Yzerman.
If I had a Lafontaine then Clarke.
Both kinds of player help a team dominate.

I don't think we'll see another Gretzky and Messier tandem for a long time
(no I don't think Crosby, Malkin will compare, but that's for another board).

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Old
11-27-2005, 02:37 AM
  #21
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Clarke. Look at his +/-, second only to Gretzky. Not a single season with negative +/-.

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11-27-2005, 02:38 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
In history draft #3 on this board I was able to use my first three rounds to pick:

1st Messier,
2nd Clarke,
3rd Yzerman,

in that order. Darn dominating core of forwards if you ask me. And that was the order of their value.

You, my friend, have a solid team down the middle...

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