HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Mike Modano: best american born player ever?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-25-2005, 09:33 AM
  #26
Ajacied
Remember #9
 
Ajacied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 23,132
vCash: 500
I laugh hard, and I mean very hard to those who have Roenick above Mike Modano as best American born player. Leeth and Chelios I can see, but unlikely to agree on, Lafontaine had a very short career.

Mike Modano would probably be a consistent Art Ross contender if he never had sacraficed some of his offensive duties to pay more attention on defense. People forgot he was a 50 goal scorer before Hitchcock arrived. Hitchcock has made Mike an unique talent, as I find a ppg, Selke contending center, who has been deemed as one of the most complete players of his era, way, way more valueble than an enigmatic one sided center capable of scoring in the 90/100 point range, which was what Mike was before Hitchcock arrived.

Roenick makes me laugh, that's all he's good for, aside from a couple decent years with the Hawks.

Mike has been pretty underrated over the course of his career as people loo at his skillset, his size and his speed and wonder why he cant top the 85 point mark, without realising he plays outstanding defense. Mike himself has stated several times how people should not judge him on his stats, half of what he does isn't even to see on the statssheet.

Ajacied is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 09:36 AM
  #27
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,852
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Brian Leetch

Stanley Cup ring
Conn Smythe
2 Norris Trophies

Priceless
It's hard saying who had a better career between Leetch and Chelios since both played diferent styles. The thing that puts my vote in the Chelios camp was he was injured less. But given the choice of a healthy Leetch or healthy Chelios in there prime i would have to say give me Leetch.

boredmale is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 09:52 AM
  #28
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
This season Modano has scored 19 pts in 21 games, has a +/- of + 10, is THE LEAGUE'S BEST PLAYER at TAKEAWAYS with 28 and is playing another Selke finalist quality season. Yet the old guy still doesn't get respect in some circles.

He was drafted first overall and has more than lived up to that.

A future HHOF and one the Top-5 American NHLers ever without a doubt.
SImply put, no he did not.

He was a bust while in Minnesota. He was a first overall pick that didn't even play the top line until 4 years into his career. Modano was considered a primadonna who was allergic to contact and wouldn't venture below the circles if a d-man was present. Very much the definitive 1-dimensional perimeter player. It wasn't until his last year in Minnesota that he started to make good on his potential and started to play through traffic.

At no point in his career has he ever been the best at his position. I would hesitate to put him among the top-5 centers of the game.

In my mind, Modano isn't even the best center born in Minnesota. He will always be in Neal Broten's shadow.

JCD is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 10:05 AM
  #29
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
83 game-winning NHL goals!!! That's more than an entire season of games (or two seasons of 40+ wins each).

506 NHL goals in all, 736 assists, 1252 NHL points, and counting...

The problem was he was counted on, as captain from an early age, to CARRY the team. He has averaged over a point a game, played a solid two-way game, and yet some people wanted another Mario or Gretz when in fact Modano was more in the Yzerman and Sakic mold, and as such, almost but not quite, measured up.
That is just total BS.

Modano was never captian while in Minnesota and wasn't a captain in Dallas until Derian Hatcher left.

As for carrying the team, absolute nonsense. The team HOPED he would contribute SOMETHING, but were forced to bench him for long periods because he put in such a half-assed effort and refused to play defense. Neal Broten and Brian Bellows were the most dangerous offensive players on the team, they carried the load. In close games, Modano would be benched to give defensively sound players like Bobby Smith more ice time.

It wasn't until Modano was in Dallas that he started to play defense. It wasn't until his 4th season that he started to take a hit in order to make a play. Up until that point, he had never finished higher than 4th on his team in scoring.

He turned his career around in Dallas, but that doesn't change what he was in Minnesota. Plus, even in Dallas he never really dominated at a level like Chelios or Leetch have.

JCD is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 10:07 AM
  #30
Lindros_for_rizzle_
Registered User
 
Lindros_for_rizzle_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,792
vCash: 500
Yes, Modano and Chelios are the best. Dont know which one of them. Thyre both cool, Id split it.

Lindros_for_rizzle_ is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 11:51 AM
  #31
therealdeal
Registered User
 
therealdeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,928
vCash: 500
Possibly Lafontaine, but he had a shortened career, so its hard to say. If Modano wants to be considered the best American born player he better finish his career off strong.

Anyways, I'd say it was Richter is the best.

therealdeal is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 12:03 PM
  #32
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,567
vCash: 500
I'd have to go with Brian Leetch.

NyQuil is online now  
Old
11-25-2005, 12:11 PM
  #33
jamiebez
Registered User
 
jamiebez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,349
vCash: 500
I'd go:

Chelios
Leetch
LaFontaine
Modano
Mullen
Richter
Barrasso

Based on guys I've seen (can't really comment on Frank Brimsek )

Since it was discussed in the HOF thread elsewhere on here, if I was voting, my cutoff line would be just below Lafontaine.

jamiebez is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 12:36 PM
  #34
Dartmouth 02
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 999
vCash: 500
Brian Leetch

Chelios
LaFontaine
Modano
Housley

Dartmouth 02 is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 01:39 PM
  #35
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,132
vCash: 500
First off Roenick isnt even close to being the best American. Mullen isnt either. It comes down to three guys basically. Chelios, Leetch and Lafonatine. Chelios won the Norris three times, Leetch twice. Lafontaine I put just a little bit ahead of Modano. With Modano you always wanted more from him. You often wondered why he never had more than 93 points in his career. He may have played two way game well, but he just never dominated the way I'd have like to have seen.
Lafontaine could. Leetch in his prime seemed to be able to control a game too.

Big Phil is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 02:44 PM
  #36
wilka91*
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,251
vCash: 500
Kessel > Modano

wilka91* is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 03:46 PM
  #37
espo*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,455
vCash: 500
I don't think so.As good as he was/is to me Chelios get's the nod as the best all around player they've ever produced.Pat Lafontaine was the most offensively gifted forward they've ever produced and may have gone down as the best American player ever if not for concussions.Leetch and Chelios get my votes as the two best but Chelios just edges him out for all around play.

espo* is offline  
Old
11-25-2005, 11:53 PM
  #38
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
For my money one and two are very clear cut.

1. Chris Chelios
2. Brian Leetch

I'd give Lafontaine a slight edge for the #3 spot.

I'd have Roenick & Moadano battling for the 4th spot. As of now I'd give the honor to Roenick.

I look at Mike Modano the same way I look at Sergei Fedorov .... as good as they both have been they leave me wanting. I don't think either ever came very close to get all they could out of their game.

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
11-26-2005, 12:03 AM
  #39
beeker16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
That is just total BS.

Modano was never captian while in Minnesota and wasn't a captain in Dallas until Derian Hatcher left.

As for carrying the team, absolute nonsense. The team HOPED he would contribute SOMETHING, but were forced to bench him for long periods because he put in such a half-assed effort and refused to play defense. Neal Broten and Brian Bellows were the most dangerous offensive players on the team, they carried the load. In close games, Modano would be benched to give defensively sound players like Bobby Smith more ice time.

It wasn't until Modano was in Dallas that he started to play defense. It wasn't until his 4th season that he started to take a hit in order to make a play. Up until that point, he had never finished higher than 4th on his team in scoring.

He turned his career around in Dallas, but that doesn't change what he was in Minnesota. Plus, even in Dallas he never really dominated at a level like Chelios or Leetch have.

And the changes didn't start until Gainey and Hitchcock started molding him into a two way forward. He did have a 50 goal season at one point before his role was redefined.

beeker16 is offline  
Old
11-26-2005, 07:02 AM
  #40
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeker16
And the changes didn't start until Gainey and Hitchcock started molding him into a two way forward. He did have a 50 goal season at one point before his role was redefined.
And, despite starting his career in the run-and-gun era, that was the only 40+ goal season of his career.

Offensively, Modano never lived up to his hype. He was able to develop into a 2-way forward that salvaged his career, otherwise he would have gone down as a bust/underachiever.

JCD is offline  
Old
11-26-2005, 07:27 AM
  #41
V-2 Schneider
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 877
vCash: 500
There's no mention of Rod Langway?

V-2 Schneider is offline  
Old
11-26-2005, 09:05 AM
  #42
GB
Registered User
 
GB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: UK
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 4,508
vCash: 370
Send a message via ICQ to GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider
There's no mention of Rod Langway?
He's not American born though, otherwise I'd expect him to have been mentioned a lot.

GB is online now  
Old
11-26-2005, 06:19 PM
  #43
David Puddy
Registered User
 
David Puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New Jersey, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
In my mind, Modano isn't even the best center born in Minnesota. He will always be in Neal Broten's shadow.
You are correct. Modano isn't the best center born in Minnesota becasue he was born in Michigan. But Modano has had a better NHL career than Neal Broten. Modano has played in six NHL All-Star Games to Broten's two. Furthermore, Modano was named to the Second All-Star Team once. Broten was never voted to an end of the season All-Star Team.

As for Tom Barrasso and Mike Ritcher, Barrasso was clearly the better goaltender. While Mike Richter never won an individual award in the NHL, Barrasso was named to the First All-Star Team, All-Rookie Team and won the Calder Trophy for the 1983-84 season. Barrasso was also selected twice to the Second All-Star Team, and he shared a Jennings Trophy with Bob Sauve.

David Puddy is offline  
Old
11-26-2005, 06:36 PM
  #44
DaMick
at least we got D
 
DaMick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Purgatory
Country: United States
Posts: 8,425
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to DaMick
Pat LaFontaine[short career & all],Chelios & Barasso id rate ahead of Modano

__________________
DaMick is offline  
Old
11-26-2005, 08:11 PM
  #45
JCD
Registered User
 
JCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 14,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Puddy
You are correct. Modano isn't the best center born in Minnesota becasue he was born in Michigan. But Modano has had a better NHL career than Neal Broten. Modano has played in six NHL All-Star Games to Broten's two. Furthermore, Modano was named to the Second All-Star Team once. Broten was never voted to an end of the season All-Star Team.
Disagree. I don't care about how many times he was voted to the NHL's populatrity contest of that he once was named an All Star.

Broten was just as adept a 2-way player, just as dynamic offensively, won just as many Cups and has a Gold Medal to boot. He was the lynchpin for the North Stars for most of his career. More importantly, he was a role model and leader from day one.

If I had to build a team, I would take Broten over Modano. Though I digress, Modano's case is just as strong as Broten, just a matter of opinion.

JCD is offline  
Old
11-26-2005, 08:59 PM
  #46
Happy Girl
Registered User
 
Happy Girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: a playoff free world
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
I realize my choice is kind of off topic and he never really had a spectacular NHL career, but to me Mark Johnson and his team mates in Lake Placid including Broten will always be the best American players ever not only for what they did for USA hockey but what they did for our nation in 1980.

Happy Girl is offline  
Old
11-27-2005, 01:52 AM
  #47
Transported Upstater
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Take care, all. :)
Country: United States
Posts: 22,984
vCash: 500
Definitely for me, the best American-born player in my lifetime is Pat "LalalalalaFontaine."

I saw somewhere where Alexander Mogilny was asked who the best center he ever played with, and without hesitation he said LaFontaine. That's a pretty good endorsement, considering some of the players Mogilny has played with.


Others that come to mind:

Modano couldn't carry Pat LaFontaine's decayed diapers of yesteryear.
Chelios and Leetch are both good choices, and to me next in line (not necessarily in that order.)
Roenick...funny as hell, excellent in his prime, but not at the level of Chelios or Leetch.


But IMO none of those players dominated a game the way a healthy LaFontaine did in his prime. It was one of the first times I could say with a straight face that an American was as good or better as all but 5 or so players in the NHL.

Transported Upstater is offline  
Old
11-27-2005, 01:54 AM
  #48
Transported Upstater
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Take care, all. :)
Country: United States
Posts: 22,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
First off Roenick isnt even close to being the best American. Mullen isnt either. It comes down to three guys basically. Chelios, Leetch and Lafonatine. Chelios won the Norris three times, Leetch twice. Lafontaine I put just a little bit ahead of Modano. With Modano you always wanted more from him. You often wondered why he never had more than 93 points in his career. He may have played two way game well, but he just never dominated the way I'd have like to have seen.
Lafontaine could. Leetch in his prime seemed to be able to control a game too.

Agreed. Pat LaFontaine, Brian Leetch and Chris Chelios are a step or 18 above the rest of American players the past three decades or so.

Transported Upstater is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.