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Two trades away from being a Cup Contender

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Old
11-29-2005, 06:02 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexMurphy
Theo plays in the Irish league... Ireland beeing ranked the second worst hockey nation in the world only Armenia giving them a run for the money... http://www.iihf.com/news/Ranking2005.pdf
Actually... I reckon Theo plays in Belfast whose team is in the British Elite league?

I saw a documentary about the IIHF C-group championships. Played in Mexico City (the only rink in the nation I take it)... Mexico won. Ireland were there together with Armenia and South African Rep. And Luxembourg!!

Ireland can't have a league of their own... the players on that documentary explained there isn't even a real rink on the whole of Irish republic.


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11-29-2005, 06:30 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
Silliness. Lots of silliness.

Good team, fun to watch, far from a contender.

They're 3 defensemen away, and those three are currently developing in or belong to the organziation.

Also another 2/3 top 6 skill guys away, who may, or may not be developng in the system.

I'm not suggesting the couldn't make some noise this year in the playoffs, but you don't jump off the correct path because of some early success..
That's it right there, end of thread. Mission this year is make the playoffs and develop prospects. All the more reason to keep Rucchin. Makes the young guys better. If he makes the team a little worse, which I don't think, we get a better pick. Ottawa is taking the East. Carolina is good, and I hate to admit, but Philly is good.

And please, please remember our lessons in lacking patience. We didn't need Johnsson, we didn't need Zidlicky, we gave up on Ekman. And worst of all, to replace guys like Johnsson, we traded York for Poti. This is a path we do not need to revisit. Let's gear up for a run when Henrik is ready and Hasek is retired. Forsberg too. Can we not be remembered for always ditching our prospects for washed up superstars.

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Old
11-29-2005, 07:06 PM
  #28
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sykora can play all 3 forward positions, stick him in center. or put him on the first line and move straka or nylander to center #2.

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Old
11-29-2005, 07:25 PM
  #29
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I really think we'll be hurting if Rucchin is dealt. Would it be nice to add a servicable 2nd line winger? Of course, but we already have that coming back in Rucinsky which should be this week if not early next. I really hope we don't make this move...I'd hate to see Rucchin get dealt especially considering the intangibles this guy brings to the table with his experience. If he wasn't producing that'd be one thing, but how could we ship a guy out that has been a serviceable #2 center?

I don't think NYR should make any deals, especially not right now unless it involves us moving non-roster players. Immonen would be the 1st name that would come to mind if we needed a replacement for Rucchin being dealt.

Another one of my questions is why would Anahiem deal away Rucchin for NOTHING and then want him back in a deal for Sykora? It makes no sense at all.

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11-29-2005, 07:58 PM
  #30
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Wow. Have you learned nothing over the past 8 years?

Hey, let's trade prospects and picks for Lindros, Holik, Anson Carter, Leetch, and Kovalev! Then we'll be cup contenders for sure!!

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11-29-2005, 08:16 PM
  #31
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Lets just wait until the deadline and see where this team is. It might make more sense to do nothing than either (although i doubt the Rangers will do that)

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Old
11-29-2005, 09:23 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
Silliness. Lots of silliness.

Good team, fun to watch, far from a contender.

They're 3 defensemen away, and those three are currently developing in or belong to the organziation.

Also another 2/3 top 6 skill guys away, who may, or may not be developng in the system.

I'm not suggesting the couldn't make some noise this year in the playoffs, but you don't jump off the correct path because of some early success..
I'll remember this. This team is second in the conference and no one thinks they can compete for the cup. I know there only a 1/4 done with the season. But everyone is writing them off as a cup contender.

I dont want trade Hossa and Rucchin. And I'm not sold on Poti being traded because he seems to have turned a corner this season. In his pasy 7 or 8 games, he stepped it up big time on the defensive side of his game.

This team has great chemistry, no reason to mess with it unless your making a trade with draft picks for a player.

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11-30-2005, 08:00 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch
I'll remember this. This team is second in the conference and no one thinks they can compete for the cup. I know there only a 1/4 done with the season. But everyone is writing them off as a cup contender.

I dont want trade Hossa and Rucchin. And I'm not sold on Poti being traded because he seems to have turned a corner this season. In his pasy 7 or 8 games, he stepped it up big time on the defensive side of his game.

This team has great chemistry, no reason to mess with it unless your making a trade with draft picks for a player.


By all means, please do... While I never thought they'd be the worst in the conference, I was already wrong about how good (or bad) they'd be after the first 25 games.

Of course "any" team can be a cup contender if they get hot at the right time, and the Rangers are as likely as any other dark horse candidate, but that doesn't really affect my point..

There's simply no reason whatsoever to makes trades in order to "add a couple of missing pieces." This team is doing well because it's sum is better than its parts, and is FINALLY on the right path to building a young core and full team out of its own assets, and now is not the time to let some of them go.

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11-30-2005, 11:35 AM
  #34
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Fletch--->On Foote you're probably right. I've just always liked the guy. He plays hard. He hits. He even will add some offense. But he is getting older and has a long contract. I would have liked him a lot more than Malik (at least until the shootout the other day).

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11-30-2005, 08:10 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
By all means, please do... While I never thought they'd be the worst in the conference, I was already wrong about how good (or bad) they'd be after the first 25 games.

Of course "any" team can be a cup contender if they get hot at the right time, and the Rangers are as likely as any other dark horse candidate, but that doesn't really affect my point..

There's simply no reason whatsoever to makes trades in order to "add a couple of missing pieces." This team is doing well because it's sum is better than its parts, and is FINALLY on the right path to building a young core and full team out of its own assets, and now is not the time to let some of them go.
No Davisian, I completely agree with you. I am not for trading our chemistry away for a few missing pieces. I want the Rangers to keep Poti, Hossa, and Rucchin. There all playing good. I see these threads saying trade Rucchin, trade Hossa, and as usual trade Poti. But why? Poti has been playing real good of late, as has Hossa and Rucchin has all season.

I'm just saying if Anaheim would be willing to trade Sykora here for a 3rd round pick, why not think about it. Or if Florida would trade Weiss for a 2nd round pick and some low level prospects.

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Old
12-02-2005, 10:22 AM
  #36
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We are NOT two trades away from being cup contenders. We are probably not even two SEASONS away from being cup contenders. I have been daydreaming about this squad as much as anyone, but let's get real for a minute. Two MAJOR obstacles are in our way. Ottawa and Detroit. Let's not even get into Philly or Carolina, who, as good as we've been thus far, have been agruably as good or better. Ottawa has been AWESOME. That squad is a LEGIT contender. Tyson-like, if I may draw a comparison. I say we stick with our rebuild and this is why. We don't want to give away any assets that are going to damage us long term this year. I don't believe there are any "2 players" that we can aquire for a reasonable price that will put us over the hump and on an even playing field with the Sens. That's reality. We have to realize this. I say we dance with who brought us, minus maybe a little tweak or so, and wait until next season. Our prospects will be a little further along, our rookies will have a little more experience and the best part: The SENATORS WILL BE A VICTIM OF THEIR OWN SUCCESS. If they win it all, like I think they will, the breakup will be soon after. They are going to be hard pressed to stay under the cap with the cast of stars they dress. So we wait and pick their bones like buzzards. Make a GOOD offer to BOTH Chara and Redden. Force them to choose. We get stronger in our weakest position, while simultaneously weakening the team we have to go through. We can't lose sight of the rebuild because we've had a good first third of the season Patience grasshoppers... Patience...

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12-02-2005, 10:29 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML
We are NOT two trades away from being cup contenders. We are probably not even two SEASONS away from being cup contenders. I have been daydreaming about this squad as much as anyone, but let's get real for a minute. Two MAJOR obstacles are in our way. Ottawa and Detroit. Let's not even get into Philly or Carolina, who, as good as we've been thus far, have been agruably as good or better. Ottawa has been AWESOME. That squad is a LEGIT contender. Tyson-like, if I may draw a comparison. I say we stick with our rebuild and this is why. We don't want to give away any assets that are going to damage us long term this year. I don't believe there are any "2 players" that we can aquire for a reasonable price that will put us over the hump and on an even playing field with the Sens. That's reality. We have to realize this. I say we dance with who brought us, minus maybe a little tweak or so, and wait until next season. Our prospects will be a little further along, our rookies will have a little more experience and the best part: The SENATORS WILL BE A VICTIM OF THEIR OWN SUCCESS. If they win it all, like I think they will, the breakup will be soon after. They are going to be hard pressed to stay under the cap with the cast of stars they dress. So we wait and pick their bones like buzzards. Make a GOOD offer to BOTH Chara and Redden. Force them to choose. We get stronger in our weakest position, while simultaneously weakening the team we have to go through. We can't lose sight of the rebuild because we've had a good first third of the season Patience grasshoppers... Patience...

Although I think Detroit is extremely overrated and their record is inflated and will continue to be throughout the season because they have 24 games against Chicago, St. Louis, and Columbus (3 of the worst teams in the league all in the same division), I do agree with your point. I don't see us beating Ottawa in a 7 game playoff right now, but it's also still very early, and once you hit the playoffs, it's often a crapshoot. Who knows what could happen? The Flyers or Leafs or Canadiens or Sabres could somehow get hot in the playoffs and knock off the Senators. Then I could see us beating any of them in a 7 game series. Once you get to the playoffs, almost anything can happen.

I think it's way too early to tell either way, but the thought of us being 2 trades away from cup contenders is especially silly.

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12-02-2005, 10:40 AM
  #38
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I got a bit long winded in my post and forgot to even mention Detroit. My point with them was they are one of the oldest teams in the league and can't be around forever. Yzerman, Chelios, Shanny, Lidstrom... they have alot of guys who have played alot of hockey. Not just guys, KEY guys. Any or all of them could decide to pack it in this year. But you are correct, I know anything could happen and that's why the games are played on the ice and not on paper. I am just saying I would go with pretty much to a man, the guys we have, with the EXCEPTION of a guy who would be an impending UFA who could bring back a good return, like Rucchin (for example). I know the guy is valuable to us and is doing a great job, but if a team offers us a second for him, he's gone, IMO. The pick is worth more to the long term health of this organization than 40 games worth of Steve Rucchins' contribution on the ice.(for example)

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12-02-2005, 10:43 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SML
I got a bit long winded in my post and forgot to even mention Detroit. My point with them was they are one of the oldest teams in the league and can't be around forever. Yzerman, Chelios, Shanny, Lidstrom... they have alot of guys who have played alot of hockey. Not just guys, KEY guys. Any or all of them could decide to pack it in this year. But you are correct, I know anything could happen and that's why the games are played on the ice and not on paper. I am just saying I would go with pretty much to a man, the guys we have, with the EXCEPTION of a guy who would be an impending UFA who could bring back a good return, like Rucchin (for example). I know the guy is valuable to us and is doing a great job, but if a team offers us a second for him, he's gone, IMO. The pick is worth more to the long term health of this organization than 40 games worth of Steve Rucchins' contribution on the ice.(for example)

I totally agree.

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12-02-2005, 11:39 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88
Lundqvist turns his game up a few pegs in big games ;see SEL playoffs last season. He broke every single goalie playoff record.
Chechmanek won some Chech league championships too and we see how that turned out. Im not saying Lundqvist is Chechmanek im just saying their is a differance between playing for league titles in Europe then playing for the Holy Grail known as Lord Stanley.

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Old
12-02-2005, 11:44 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
Chechmanek won some Chech league championships too and we see how that turned out. Im not saying Lundqvist is Chechmanek im just saying their is a differance between playing for league titles in Europe then playing for the Holy Grail known as Lord Stanley.
No offense, but you guys have your own problems to worry about. With the exception of hextall's run as a rookie, I don't think I can say the Flyers have EVER entered the playoffs with a goalie that they could ride all the way, at least since then, anyway. To imply that Lunqvist is Chechmanek, is IMO, offensive. That guy was a choker and if you've watched any games Lundqvist has played in you would know that he is far from that.

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12-02-2005, 11:52 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
Chechmanek won some Chech league championships too and we see how that turned out. Im not saying Lundqvist is Chechmanek im just saying their is a differance between playing for league titles in Europe then playing for the Holy Grail known as Lord Stanley.
What you say about winning european league titles might be true but I've watched Cechmanek many times and he wasn't or isn't anywhere close to as good as Lundqvist.

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12-02-2005, 03:14 PM
  #43
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Bottom line is no one knows anything about Lundqvist in the playoffs till he gets there. Some great regular season goalies have stumbled there.

On the flip side, going into 1994 you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who was completely convinced that Richter was a Cup Goalie.

As for a trade, the only trade this team makes needs to come later one and should ideally involve a younger player or someone in their prime years. (24-27). This way they can at least build around the guy.

Getting closer to the 30's or guys who used to be good or older players just doesnt make sense right now.

For all the progress this team has made i think it's still a ways away from being a serious contender and one that is in the mix year after year.

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12-02-2005, 04:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
Chechmanek won some Chech league championships too and we see how that turned out. Im not saying Lundqvist is Chechmanek im just saying their is a differance between playing for league titles in Europe then playing for the Holy Grail known as Lord Stanley.
Not a good comparison at all. Chechmanek was a lot older when he came over and I doubt he faced the level of competition that Lundqvist has faced in the last three years of his development.

As Edge says, you can't tell about how a goalie is going to respond to the playoffs. But, up to this point, everything points to Lundqvist being the real deal. And if he hits a rough patch in the playoffs, we have Weekes who has played well in the playoffs.

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12-02-2005, 04:37 PM
  #45
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Why does everybody want Rucchin off the team?

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12-02-2005, 05:21 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Franz
Why does everybody want Rucchin off the team?
Because he's not producing given the role (2nd line center) he's been assigned to play. Plus, he's blocking our most ready prospect (Immonen) from playing in the NHL. Rucchin is one too many veterans on a team that is supposed be rebuilding its core from within.

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Old
12-02-2005, 05:39 PM
  #47
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if this team is as good as it is now by the trade deadline and the PP still blows please dont tell me we should stick it out...if they are still this good at that time you have to try to pick up a D man for the PP, Dont go overboard and give away the farm but you have a chance to do some real good things in the playoffs and that would be a great headstart for the young guys on this team. anything can happen and we are seeing it now! Why not????

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