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Thornton slips through the crack!!!

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12-01-2005, 06:19 AM
  #1
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Thornton slips through the crack!!!

With the injury and Primeau that is starting to appear long-term.........did we let Joe Thornton slip away. We are a team with tons of youth and in need of a "stud" as the center position. Seeing what San Jose sent back........I think we could have at least matched it.

Yes I know that Primeau is a better "leader" than Thornton is but this guy is a good one.

Let me know your thoughts!

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12-01-2005, 06:33 AM
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If that's your opinion, then every team in the NHL let Thornton slip through the cracks. The Flyers would have needed to (a) make the salary difference work, and (b) find the players that Boston would want to make the deal. Who would the Flyers give up that is comparable to what the Sharks gave up? Johnsson is not as good as Stuart, so I think the only logical name that the Bruins would want is Pitkanen... do we really want to give him up? Then forward... the Flyers don't really have anyone around the level of Sturm. Knuble is older, Gagne is better than Sturm, Carter and Richards are much younger and cheaper (and not as established). Zeus might have fit, but then you're giving up one good center to get another.

Even if you can find something to make the names work, getting a guy who is making over $6M per year to fit under the cap would've been very difficult. The only way I can see it working is if the Flyers gave up Johnsson and Gagne along with maybe Radivoaispfdoj. And that's not a deal that I would make.

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12-01-2005, 06:42 AM
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how could this team afford a 6.6 million dollar salary?

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12-01-2005, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Flyer Fan
With the injury and Primeau that is starting to appear long-term.........did we let Joe Thornton slip away. We are a team with tons of youth and in need of a "stud" as the center position. Seeing what San Jose sent back........I think we could have at least matched it.

Yes I know that Primeau is a better "leader" than Thornton is but this guy is a good one.

Let me know your thoughts!
let me ask you this:



At this point would you have traded Kim Johnsson, Michal Handzus and say...Branko Radivojevic for him? (remember no Primeau, Forsberg is hurt and will probably get hurt again, Desjardins is old and Chris Therien would become a regular)


I thought so.




The Flyers are not in a position to make a deal of this magnitude.

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12-01-2005, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
let me ask you this:



At this point would you have traded Kim Johnsson, Michal Handzus and say...Branko Radivojevic for him? (remember no Primeau, Forsberg is hurt and will probably get hurt again, Desjardins is old and Chris Therien would become a regular)


I thought so.




The Flyers are not in a position to make a deal of this magnitude.
Agreed. Those players are probably like most comparable to what San Jose gave up, and the Flyers simply could not afford to lose that much depth. On top of that, the Flyers could not afford his $6.6 million dollar salary, at least not right now. This deal would have had to have been made late in the season for it to even have been possible. In the end, there is no way the Bruins would have traded a player like Thornton to a conference rival, either.

With that said, can you imagine a 1-2 punch of Forsberg and Thornton? That would be downright scary.

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12-01-2005, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
let me ask you this:



At this point would you have traded Kim Johnsson, Michal Handzus and say...Branko Radivojevic for him? (remember no Primeau, Forsberg is hurt and will probably get hurt again, Desjardins is old and Chris Therien would become a regular)


I thought so.




The Flyers are not in a position to make a deal of this magnitude.
boston says "urs" to that garbage

would have needed to be pitkainen and either richards or carter

and of course you don't have the cap room to do that anyway.

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12-01-2005, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heywood
boston says "urs" to that garbage

would have needed to be pitkainen and either richards or carter

and of course you don't have the cap room to do that anyway.
Try again.

You would probably find it hard to name five Flyers' fans on this board who would trade Pitkanen for Thornton straight up, let alone adding in one very good young player like Richards or Carter. That's nonsense.

Sturm is a good second line winger, Stuart is a solid #2 defenseman or a very good #3, and Wayne Primeau is a 3rd liner. Michal Handzus is a good second line center, Johnsson is a solid #2 or a good #3, and Radivojevic is a good 3rd line player. What San Jose offered, and what GKJ offered, are very similar. So similar infact, that calling it "garbage," is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in a long time.

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12-01-2005, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heywood
boston says "urs" to that garbage

would have needed to be pitkainen and either richards or carter

and of course you don't have the cap room to do that anyway.
This is one of the funniest posts I've ever read. Did you happen to notice the "garbage" Boston actually got in return for Big Joe? KJ, Handzus and Radivojevic is every bit comparable, if not better than, Stuart, Sturm and Primeau.

Hillarious that after Boston already traded him for such "garbage" you post that they would demand a top rookie and a young Norris callibre defenseman.

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12-01-2005, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heywood
boston says "urs" to that garbage

would have needed to be pitkainen and either richards or carter

and of course you don't have the cap room to do that anyway.

Why? These are the 3 most compatable players we had. The Sharks didn't give up anyone under the age of 26.

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12-01-2005, 07:57 AM
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Do you guys really think that Boston would have traded Thornton to a team in the same conference without demanding more?

Besides, do you really think you could have resigned Gagne and Pitkanen this offseason with Thornton's contract in the books as well?

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12-01-2005, 08:02 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11
Do you guys really think that Boston would have traded Thornton to a team in the same conference without demanding more?

Besides, do you really think you could have resigned Gagne and Pitkanen this offseason with Thornton's contract in the books as well?
why do you think we're not freaking out that we didn't even lift a finger to try and get him.



We're better off.

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12-01-2005, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
why do you think we're not freaking out that we didn't even lift a finger to try and get him.



We're better off.
Hmmm, I don't know about that. I know I would seriously consider a deal for Thornton if it meant Handzus, Johnsson and Radivojevic. Let's put it this way: Three salaries combined in the neighbourhood of Big Joe's; if Primeau retires his contract comes off the books; Therien, Desjardins, and Brashear all walk, we have more than enough money to sign Pitkanen and Gagne and we also have enough coin to sign a defenseman to replace Johnsson. I'd say you have to consider it. Not only that, there was chemistry with Thornton and Gagne at the World Championships and we don't lose Richards and Carter. Yeah, I'd say we should have at least inquired. However, the discussions between San Jose and Boston were aparently really quiet and private. That was what Doug Wilson mentioned and that no other teams knew about the chance of a deal.

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Old
12-01-2005, 10:00 AM
  #13
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Thornton is a great player but the Flyers don't need him. Their problem isn't scoring goals or anything else that Thornton can offer. It wouldn't make sense for the Flyers to blow up their team, assuming they could fit his salary which I don't believe they could have, to get another scoring center. Who do you play on the PP? Thornton controls the PP on Boston but he would have to take a back seat to Forsy. So then Thornton is on your #2 PP team, what does that do to Carters minutes and development. It makes no sense on so many levels.....

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12-01-2005, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
Hmmm, I don't know about that. I know I would seriously consider a deal for Thornton if it meant Handzus, Johnsson and Radivojevic. Let's put it this way: Three salaries combined in the neighbourhood of Big Joe's; if Primeau retires his contract comes off the books; Therien, Desjardins, and Brashear all walk, we have more than enough money to sign Pitkanen and Gagne and we also have enough coin to sign a defenseman to replace Johnsson. I'd say you have to consider it. Not only that, there was chemistry with Thornton and Gagne at the World Championships and we don't lose Richards and Carter. Yeah, I'd say we should have at least inquired. However, the discussions between San Jose and Boston were aparently really quiet and private. That was what Doug Wilson mentioned and that no other teams knew about the chance of a deal.
which is very bizarre... you move someone like Thornton you let some people compete w/ offers. not the wisest way to deal with that trade in my opinion.

salary cap world... i do NOT deal for Thornton when i already have Forsberg in house; Gagne, Pitkanen, and KJ contracts to deal with in the near future; and two centers in Richards and Carter that have the potential to make that position a strength (and expensive) for years to come.

you build where you are weak in the salary cap environment, you don't add strength to strength. especially for a player that has not necessarily shown a willingness to go to the dirty places on the ice to get a goal...

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12-01-2005, 10:18 AM
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Thornton is just another good regular season player...he disappears in the playoffs. 18 points (6G, 12 A) in 35 playoffs games. We don't need that.

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12-01-2005, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
which is very bizarre... you move someone like Thornton you let some people compete w/ offers. not the wisest way to deal with that trade in my opinion.

salary cap world... i do NOT deal for Thornton when i already have Forsberg in house; Gagne, Pitkanen, and KJ contracts to deal with in the near future; and two centers in Richards and Carter that have the potential to make that position a strength (and expensive) for years to come.

you build where you are weak in the salary cap environment, you don't add strength to strength. especially for a player that has not necessarily shown a willingness to go to the dirty places on the ice to get a goal...
No kidding. Forsberg, Hatcher, Rathje, Primeau, and Thonton would account for 60% of any teams salary cap. That's just an absurd amount to be invested in five players and would make it impossible to resign our key UFA/RFAs this season.

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12-01-2005, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth
No kidding. Forsberg, Hatcher, Rathje, Primeau, and Thonton would account for 60% of any teams salary cap. That's just an absurd amount to be invested in five players and would make it impossible to resign our key UFA/RFAs this season.
Ricos and Brashes $4m could come in quite handy when that time comes around.

Im willing to bet we could find an enforcer for less than $1.5m and a D man for less than $2.6m.

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12-01-2005, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve L
Ricos and Brashes $4m could come in quite handy when that time comes around.

Im willing to bet we could find an enforcer for less than $1.5m and a D man for less than $2.6m.
i don't think Rico is going to be done, and i have a hunch he will take a discount to stay.

Brash... thank god we will be rid of him. I don't think we really need an "enforcer" so much as quality players who are very physical. Fighting is dying in the league... what you want are guys who can play some defense, maybe chip in on offense, but punish the opponent whenever they are on the ice more than an "enforcer."

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12-01-2005, 01:35 PM
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In the salary cap world it's more important to have no more than 1-2 star players with great depth, instead of 3-4 star players and nothing else.

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12-01-2005, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
which is very bizarre... you move someone like Thornton you let some people compete w/ offers. not the wisest way to deal with that trade in my opinion.
My guess is they didn't want to move him to another team in the East, and figured that no other teams in the West had the cap room/players other than San Jose. They probably didn't want to risk it getting out into the public, in which case they may have ended up with no choice but to trade Thornton and have gotten less as a result.

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12-01-2005, 02:52 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Brad
Try again.

You would probably find it hard to name five Flyers' fans on this board who would trade Pitkanen for Thornton straight up, let alone adding in one very good young player like Richards or Carter. That's nonsense.

Sturm is a good second line winger, Stuart is a solid #2 defenseman or a very good #3, and Wayne Primeau is a 3rd liner. Michal Handzus is a good second line center, Johnsson is a solid #2 or a good #3, and Radivojevic is a good 3rd line player. What San Jose offered, and what GKJ offered, are very similar. So similar infact, that calling it "garbage," is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in a long time.
jonsson is a UFA after this season, i believe. remind me again what that is worth to a last-place team?

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12-01-2005, 03:17 PM
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A little off topic but I guess this trade means Primeau isn't going to San Jose to play with his brother anymore...

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12-01-2005, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by heywood
jonsson is a UFA after this season, i believe. remind me again what that is worth to a last-place team?
cap flexibility.

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12-01-2005, 06:00 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by heywood
jonsson is a UFA after this season, i believe. remind me again what that is worth to a last-place team?
More than he would be worth if he were signed to a long term deal.

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12-01-2005, 07:38 PM
  #25
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haven't we been losing enough games without Joe Thornton? Oh yeah and who is our number one Dman? KJ is one of the best Dmen in the league, something is wrong with him right now and he will work it out. I wish people would stop trying to trade Handzus also. Imagine if we could trade Zus for a winger that can get 60 to 70 pts, play great defensively and be our best face off guy. Oh wait, I just described Handzus. I think he has actually been better while playing on the wing and he can still take face-offs. We have a great team they just need to learn to work harder and develop some chemistry. Therien is the weak link but one of Seidenberg, Jones, and Meyer will do the job there. I expect Boston to be much better. I still don't expect a win against the Super Senators though.

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