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Chris Pronger = Dale Hunter

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Old
10-14-2003, 01:00 PM
  #51
coolhandluke2410
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the Blues already have a Pronger Foote Pairing, kinda replace Foote with the godlike Jackman.

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10-14-2003, 01:00 PM
  #52
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Dale Hunters stats

I only have the first adition of Total Hockey so the Stats I have only go up to 97-98 with the Caps, but I already think they are HOF calibre in a No Brainer. Here they are.

1345gp 321g 688a 1009p 3446PIM

Playoffs

167gp 41g 73a 114p 691PIM

HOF stats all the way Thoughts

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Old
10-14-2003, 01:02 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
One more thing on Dale Hunter and I will leave this go other than to post his stats later if I can find them.

Gordie Howe is an all-time great No disputing that. People forget however that he was one of the dirtiest SOB's ever to play the game. He was probably the best fighter of his era whn he was in his prime, but he also did plenty of dirty **** out there. I am not pointing this out to slam gordie only to Illustrate my point that Dale Hunters accomplishments oveer his long career should not be Ignored for one Huge Brain Fart when he laid that visious cheap shot on Turgeon.

Thoughts

Also before someone brings this into the equasion I am not comparing dale Hunter to Gordie, Gordie was far better. I was more talking about the dirty play.
Different eras, yeah Howe was the master with the elbows and his stick (put a Rangers or Leafs player in the hospital after beating him so bad with it, have to find the article), but I don't think Howe would've done something like that, hitting a guy after he scored a goal, the other player is off guard and too busy celebrating to defend himself.

Guys today are bigger and hit harder than in Howe's day, the game was a bit slower too.

Found the article: A fight between Howe and Lou Fontinato, a Rangers defenseman, 2/1/1959, don't want to type the article, but I found it in a Detroit Free Press NHL article from 1992 (I saved a lot of Wings articles) Howe broke Fontinato's nose and dislocated his jaw, and the guy was later traded to Montreal as Howe destroyed the guy's rep as an enforcer.

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10-14-2003, 01:12 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
Different eras, yeah Howe was the master with the elbows and his stick (put a Rangers or Leafs player in the hospital after beating him so bad with it, have to find the article), but I don't think Howe would've done something like that, hitting a guy after he scored a goal, the other player is off guard and too busy celebrating to defend himself.

Guys today are bigger and hit harder than in Howe's day, the game was a bit slower too.
Points are well taken and the game was definatly rougher and better in HOwe's day. I was just using him as an example because some of the people in this thread wouldnt understand that and would be *****ing about some of the stuff he did.

I guarantee he did stuff like Prongs did to Kariya the other night a bunch.

Hunters hit on Turgeon was absoutely the worst I have seen it was mean extremely late and calculated. I just dont think it should keep Dale out of the HOF.

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10-14-2003, 01:17 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
I think Jackman plays like Foote too . He will be a deadly player for years to come , he's already damn good . Was he drafted by the Blues and overall ?
I believe back in 99 he was drafted by the Blues 17th overall

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Old
10-14-2003, 01:34 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
We'll give you Skoula and Battaglia for Jackman ! :p
i'll only do it if you throw in your top 6 forwards, and pay all there salaries :p


JACKMAN RULES!

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Old
10-14-2003, 03:07 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Something tells me that you weren't even around for the Hunter hit. Almost as late? More vicious? GMAFB.

Hunter *chased* after Turgeon from the goal over to the boards, then whacked him into the boards.

Pronger hit Kariya barely a second after the goal was scored, a bit late, worthy of a two minute penalty, which was called.

I simply cannot believe the amount of Avs whining going on in these boards over *nothing*.

Believe it or not, unless you saw Bobby Orr when he was 19, I'm pretty sure that I am much older than you, son! I'm curious. What did I say that would indicate to you that I'm a youn'un? Or is this just a rhetoric that you use to weed out the pimpled nose punks who wouldn't know hockey from lacross except that they once saw Joey Niewendyk play it once while they were in Whitby? Why are so many of them (you?) going around spewing at the mouth on these boards without really knowing what they/you are talking about?

Anyway, there are also waaaaay too many people on these boards who ASSUME things. I never said that I was an Av's fan. (Although, I really did like the Nordiques when they used to play at the old Colisee...even saw a live game there when Stevie Y and Detroit came to play against young Joe and the boys!) You know what they say about people who ASSUME? Maybe it's time that you stop, huh?!

I actually think that I have a tape of that hit by Hunter on Turgeon. It was in '93 when Les Glorieux went all the way. Most people only remember that that was the spring when St. Pat won 10 consecutive OT games to capture Montreal's 23rd Mug. But for me that's the last great spring.

That's the spring when Paul, (not Rick) Dipietro was a house hold name in hockey (at least for that playoff run!), when Eric Desjardins scored some of his most important goals of his life, when Captain Kirk did heroic things at heroic times as Harry Neale described it, and John LeClair learned how to be a power forward. That's also when Rob Ramage took a puck to the face and played with a face like the Elephant man (he did more sitting on the bench really but dressing for those games was admirable considering that ugly puffy purple face!) It's also the spring that Brian Marshmellow Bellows (gotta love a guy who can wear a wig like that with a straight face!!!) suddenly became a tough guy and played the entire playoffs with a broken rib. Actually that's when Gilbert Dionne (remember him?) was proudly thumping his chest saying that it was his goal after scoring against Ron Hextall and the Nodicks (I think it was against them...) which fueled the Jacques Demers' improbable come back against Pierre Page in Quebec. It was also the spring of Marty and the curved stick when Demers played Melrose like a violin and the Wayner's piano on his back comment by Fat Bob fueled the greatest player in history to power past the leafs!

Does that convince you that I was around then and that I am not an Av's fan?

I actually still have/or access to many of the playoff games taped from that spring in a box on my shelf...and I am sure that I have a video of Hunter's hit among them.

Dale Hunter DID NOT go out of his way to follow Turgeon then hit him. They were both on the same skating path when the dirty deed was done.

Hunter and Turgeon were both rounding the corner at the end boards after Turgeon scored when Dale hit him from behind. It was only about a second and a half after Turgeon scored his goal, while he was still celebrating.
What I said about Pronger's hit and Hunter's hit still stands. They are remarkably similar, except for the outcome.

There is heart. There is toughness. Look it up. You'll see a picture of Stevie Wonder beside it. Then there is cheap and dirty...and there's now waaay too much of it! You know, I hate to have to agree with Grapes but he's finally right when he says that players don't have respect for others as they used to. There is no honour...or very little of it left anymore. What is a warrior without honour? You think about that for a bit!

If you can't see Pronger's little tantrum for what it is, let alone commend him for being tough, all I gotta say is you've obviously grew up learning all your values from watching WWF!

SAD! Vince McMahan (sp?) substituting for mom and dad...tsk, tsk...and you wonder why the world is the place that it is!


WHAT I SAID REMAINS.
PRONGER is a GUTLESS PUKE who is not much better than a Dale Hunter...

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Old
10-14-2003, 03:27 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Believe it or not, unless you saw Bobby Orr when he was 19, I'm pretty sure that I am much older than you, son! I'm curious. What did I say that would indicate to you that I'm a youn'un? Or is this just a rhetoric that you use to weed out the pimpled nose punks who wouldn't know hockey from lacross except that they once saw Joey Niewendyk play it once while they were in Whitby? Why are so many of them (you?) going around spewing at the mouth on these boards without really knowing what they/you are talking about?

Anyway, there are also waaaaay too many people on these boards who ASSUME things. I never said that I was an Av's fan. (Although, I really did like the Nordiques when they used to play at the old Colisee...even saw a live game there when Stevie Y and Detroit came to play against young Joe and the boys!) You know what they say about people who ASSUME? Maybe it's time that you stop, huh?!

I actually think that I have a tape of that hit by Hunter on Turgeon. It was in '93 when Les Glorieux went all the way. Most people only remember that that was the spring when St. Pat won 10 consecutive OT games to capture Montreal's 23rd Mug. But for me that's the last great spring.

That's the spring when Paul, (not Rick) Dipietro was a house hold name in hockey (at least for that playoff run!), when Eric Desjardins scored some of his most important goals of his life, when Captain Kirk did heroic things at heroic times as Harry Neale described it, and John LeClair learned how to be a power forward. That's also when Rob Ramage took a puck to the face and played with a face like the Elephant man (he did more sitting on the bench really but dressing for those games was admirable considering that ugly puffy purple face!) It's also the spring that Brian Marshmellow Bellows (gotta love a guy who can wear a wig like that with a straight face!!!) suddenly became a tough guy and played the entire playoffs with a broken rib. Actually that's when Gilbert Dionne (remember him?) was proudly thumping his chest saying that it was his goal after scoring against Ron Hextall and the Nodicks (I think it was against them...) which fueled the Jacques Demers' improbable come back against Pierre Page in Quebec. It was also the spring of Marty and the curved stick when Demers played Melrose like a violin and the Wayner's piano on his back comment by Fat Bob fueled the greatest player in history to power past the leafs!

Does that convince you that I was around then and that I am not an Av's fan?

I actually still have/or access to many of the playoff games taped from that spring in a box on my shelf...and I am sure that I have a video of Hunter's hit among them.

Dale Hunter DID NOT go out of his way to follow Turgeon then hit him. They were both on the same skating path when the dirty deed was done.

Hunter and Turgeon were both rounding the corner at the end boards after Turgeon scored when Dale hit him from behind. It was only about a second and a half after Turgeon scored his goal, while he was still celebrating.
What I said about Pronger's hit and Hunter's hit still stands. They are remarkably similar, except for the outcome.

There is heart. There is toughness. Look it up. You'll see a picture of Stevie Wonder beside it. Then there is cheap and dirty...and there's now waaay too much of it! You know, I hate to have to agree with Grapes but he's finally right when he says that players don't have respect for others as they used to. There is no honour...or very little of it left anymore. What is a warrior without honour? You think about that for a bit!

If you can't see Pronger's little tantrum for what it is, let alone commend him for being tough, all I gotta say is you've obviously grew up learning all your values from watching WWF!

SAD! Vince McMahan (sp?) substituting for mom and dad...tsk, tsk...and you wonder why the world is the place that it is!


WHAT I SAID REMAINS.
PRONGER is a GUTLESS PUKE who is not much better than a Dale Hunter...
I think Dale Hunter is a HOF player and a healthy Pronger will be and both of them are far from gutless. This thread had completely degenerated. I bid you all a good night.

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Old
10-14-2003, 03:32 PM
  #59
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I'm sorry but I fail to see what was so bad about Pronger's hit that makes it as bad as Dale Hunter's.

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10-14-2003, 03:40 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebleeder38
I'm sorry but I fail to see what was so bad about Pronger's hit that makes it as bad as Dale Hunter's.
There isn't; Hunter got a 20 game suspension, whereas Pronger got a 2 minute minor. Turgeon was out for I can't remember how long after that hit (I think he missed the rest of the playoffs that year), whereas Kariya got back up again and finished the game. He's another Avs homer tying to get pity and trying to stir up anything,

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10-14-2003, 03:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by bluebleeder38
I'm sorry but I fail to see what was so bad about Pronger's hit that makes it as bad as Dale Hunter's.

I guess that's the point of my last post.

Sad, isn't it?

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Old
10-14-2003, 04:40 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Used to have so much more admiration for Pronger...he's just a gutless bully!

I think you need a cross- check from Pronger.

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Old
10-14-2003, 04:50 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Believe it or not, unless you saw Bobby Orr when he was 19, I'm pretty sure that I am much older than you, son! I'm curious. What did I say that would indicate to you that I'm a youn'un?
Born in the early 60's, so yes, I actually did watch Bobby in his first season in '67. On tv of course, and only when HNIC would show the Bruins. One of my favourite memories of a child was watching Pat Quinn flatten him.

<--- There's a reason this guy is my avatar, I actually watched him play.

I assumed you probably weren't around for the Turgeon hit, because you're so absolutely wrong about it being comparable to Pronger's.

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10-14-2003, 05:16 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by flyers guy

I think you need a cross- check from Pronger.

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Old
10-14-2003, 11:23 PM
  #65
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It makes no difference if Howe or Hunter did something similar...people seem to have the impression that it's ok because it has been done before. Where do you draw the line..."Oh but McSorley did it too you know, its not that bad"?

Romans used to feed christians to lions and crowds were happy. Because they were able to do so then, why not now? That is the same arguement these people are making.

What Pronger did was wrong. What Kariya said about it "Pronger was being Pronger" just means he is a dirty ****** who should not be allowed to play before he develops some sort of respect for his fellow hockey player. It is a physical sport, but it is also a sport where mental weakness (like Prongers act) can cause serious injury or death.

Be physical, but respect the opponent (avoid boarding and also avoid contact after the whistle unless its a clear challenge for a fight and the other guy goes for it as well)

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10-15-2003, 01:17 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad
Selšnne seems to know the rules, you how ever dont. Things are quite different during play and after the whistle is blown.
I wasn't going to do it, but you made me....here is the NHL's rule on Penalties:

Rule 25
Penalties shall be actual playing time and shall be divided in the following classes:

(1) Minor penalties
(2) Bench minor penalties
(3) Major penalties
(4) Misconduct penalties
(5) Match penalties
(6) Penalty shot

When coincident penalties are imposed on players of both Teams, the penalized players of the visiting Team shall take their positions on the penalty bench first in the place designated for visiting players.

(NOTE) When play is not actually in progress and an offense is committed by any player, the same penalty shall apply as though play was actually in progress.

http://nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule25.html
================================================== =

So you were saying that I don't know the rules?


Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad
he hit him in the lower back where there are no pads. That is one of the places where it hurts the most, and also can do a lot of damage to your lower back and your neck (because it tilts back). You would know if you ever put on hockey gear.
Yeah...if you put on the gear you wear in a rec league. NHL players wear a lot more padding than you or I would.

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10-15-2003, 06:26 AM
  #67
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OK...I finally saw the Avs-Blues game and the hit in question, and all I can say is...

What a bunch of whining and crying over nothing!

I replayed the hit 6 times, so I could get all of this straight. Here's what happened.....

1. Blake tied up Jackman by getting his stick between Jackman's skates, and ended up getting Jackman knocked down. Deserving of a penalty? Eh....had the ref known that would have prevented Jackman from defending the play, yes. Since the call has to be made on the spot, I have no problem with that *not* being called....but if it *is* called, Pronger never hits Kariya after the goal.

2. Kariya scores on the rebound, and Pronger hits Kariya with a cross-check almost 1 second later. (It was 31 frames from the point the puck went into the net until the point where Pronger clearly makes contact. At 30 fps, we're talking 1.03 seconds here....not 4 seconds as some have alleged.)

3. After the goal is scored, Jackman gets up and knocks down Selanne, who gets right back up while Kariya lays there like Brett Hull whenever Hull gets hooked or tripped down - only after things settled down did Kariya get up. I almost thought Kariya had been picked off by a sniper from the top of the Pepsi Center the way he stayed sprawled on the ice after getting cross-checked.

4. Pronger got 2 minutes, which he should have got. It was *not* deserving of more, nor is it deserving of a suspension as some think it should be. (Mrs. IB said it was worth 2 minutes, and she's not a Pronger fan.)

David....this was *NOT* as late as Hunter's hit on Turgeon (which came 4-5 seconds after Turgeon scored, with Hunter coming from high in the slot to nail Turgeon), nor was it as vicious (Turgeon missed the remainder of the '93 playoffs with a separated shoulder, Kariya didn't miss the next shift). Don't even try to compare the two - there's no comparison.

If you (or anyone else) want to question the time between the goal and the hit, pull up a clip of the incident if it's out there somewhere and play it frame-by-frame - otherwise I'll be more than happy to make a copy of that part of the game and send it to anyone who wants to double-check the time.

Was it a cheap shot? Sure it was. Was it heinous? C'mon, if we're going to nail Pronger to the proverbial cross for hitting Kariya after he scored then be prepared to do it any time someone scores a goal and gets hit afterwards.

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10-15-2003, 12:20 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues
OK...I finally saw the Avs-Blues game and the hit in question, and all I can say is...

What a bunch of whining and crying over nothing!

I replayed the hit 6 times, so I could get all of this straight. Here's what happened.....

1. Blake tied up Jackman by getting his stick between Jackman's skates, and ended up getting Jackman knocked down. Deserving of a penalty? Eh....had the ref known that would have prevented Jackman from defending the play, yes. Since the call has to be made on the spot, I have no problem with that *not* being called....but if it *is* called, Pronger never hits Kariya after the goal.

2. Kariya scores on the rebound, and Pronger hits Kariya with a cross-check almost 1 second later. (It was 31 frames from the point the puck went into the net until the point where Pronger clearly makes contact. At 30 fps, we're talking 1.03 seconds here....not 4 seconds as some have alleged.)

3. After the goal is scored, Jackman gets up and knocks down Selanne, who gets right back up while Kariya lays there like Brett Hull whenever Hull gets hooked or tripped down - only after things settled down did Kariya get up. I almost thought Kariya had been picked off by a sniper from the top of the Pepsi Center the way he stayed sprawled on the ice after getting cross-checked.

4. Pronger got 2 minutes, which he should have got. It was *not* deserving of more, nor is it deserving of a suspension as some think it should be. (Mrs. IB said it was worth 2 minutes, and she's not a Pronger fan.)

David....this was *NOT* as late as Hunter's hit on Turgeon (which came 4-5 seconds after Turgeon scored, with Hunter coming from high in the slot to nail Turgeon), nor was it as vicious (Turgeon missed the remainder of the '93 playoffs with a separated shoulder, Kariya didn't miss the next shift). Don't even try to compare the two - there's no comparison.

If you (or anyone else) want to question the time between the goal and the hit, pull up a clip of the incident if it's out there somewhere and play it frame-by-frame - otherwise I'll be more than happy to make a copy of that part of the game and send it to anyone who wants to double-check the time.

Was it a cheap shot? Sure it was. Was it heinous? C'mon, if we're going to nail Pronger to the proverbial cross for hitting Kariya after he scored then be prepared to do it any time someone scores a goal and gets hit afterwards.
Bravo Irish, Bravo. you said it all.

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10-15-2003, 01:22 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by David
I was actually looking forward to watching the said 'pummelling'...but it never took place because good ole Chris' problems with his wrists...which gave him a whole year to sit and let his anger for Selanne boil...into the fine broth that it has become.
Mugs: I didn't see the Kariya hit, unfortunately, but man, THIS POST MAKES ME HUNGRY!!!

MoneyP

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10-15-2003, 05:17 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues
OK...
2. Kariya scores on the rebound, and Pronger hits Kariya with a cross-check almost 1 second later. (It was 31 frames from the point the puck went into the net until the point where Pronger clearly makes contact. At 30 fps, we're talking 1.03 seconds here....not 4 seconds as some have alleged.)

David....this was *NOT* as late as Hunter's hit on Turgeon (which came 4-5 seconds after Turgeon scored, with Hunter coming from high in the slot to nail Turgeon), nor was it as vicious (Turgeon missed the remainder of the '93 playoffs with a separated shoulder, Kariya didn't miss the next shift). Don't even try to compare the two - there's no comparison.
No Pronger's hit was not as late as Hunter's hit. However, the difference was miniscule. ie. 1 second vs 1.5 seconds.

Have you actually seen the hit by Hunter? Because the way you say that it was so vicious compared to Pronger's hit and the way you describe it as being 4 to 5 seconds after the play leads me to believe that you have not. Pronger's hit was actually more vicious. The difference was that Turgeon fell awkwardly into the boards as the result of the hit and thus separated his shoulders.

A second after the whistle is an eternity when you are out there. You can skate from blue line to the red line in less than a second.

If the action started before or just as the whistle went, it may be a different story. However, the fact is that the whistle blew, there was a split second, then as if in disgust Pronger hit Kariya...pretty much what Hunter did...albeit a little earlier than that jerk from Petrolia!!!
(Yes, I actually know people from Petrolia...and some stories about Hunter that you may or may not believe...but another time.)

So, it stands...PRONGER IS A GUTLESS PUKE much like Hunter!

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10-15-2003, 06:15 PM
  #71
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Go away.

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Old
10-16-2003, 03:14 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David

A second after the whistle is an eternity when you are out there. You can skate from blue line to the red line in less than a second.

ah.. NO IT ISN'T..

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10-16-2003, 08:08 AM
  #73
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The biggest difference ...

between the two hits is intent. Hunter intended to put Turgoen out. He wanted/tried/did hurt turgeon. Pronger gave a cheap cross check after the play, but he didn't try to hurt Karia (Believe me, if he did, we would know and Karia wouldn't get up.) I also notice that Jackman knocked Teemu down after the goal, but noone is crying about that hit.

I really don't care when your say you were born, doesn't mean you have more hockey knowledge then a 12 year old player.

To compare the two hits is way off, even physco dad isn't comparing the two.

As for Turgoen land awkwardly into the board, I wouldn't say landed as much as flew and bounce off them onto the ice.

I am not saying that it wasn't a cheap shot by Pronger, nor an I defending it, but you can't compare the two hits.

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10-17-2003, 06:18 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
No Pronger's hit was not as late as Hunter's hit. However, the difference was miniscule. ie. 1 second vs 1.5 seconds.

Have you actually seen the hit by Hunter? Because the way you say that it was so vicious compared to Pronger's hit and the way you describe it as being 4 to 5 seconds after the play leads me to believe that you have not. Pronger's hit was actually more vicious. The difference was that Turgeon fell awkwardly into the boards as the result of the hit and thus separated his shoulders.

A second after the whistle is an eternity when you are out there. You can skate from blue line to the red line in less than a second.

If the action started before or just as the whistle went, it may be a different story. However, the fact is that the whistle blew, there was a split second, then as if in disgust Pronger hit Kariya...pretty much what Hunter did...albeit a little earlier than that jerk from Petrolia!!!
(Yes, I actually know people from Petrolia...and some stories about Hunter that you may or may not believe...but another time.)

So, it stands...PRONGER IS A GUTLESS PUKE much like Hunter!
For the record....Hunter took more than a few strides to hit Turgeon from the side as Turgeon had his arms raised above his head - he (Turgeon) was extremely vulnerable and got rammed into the boards awkwardly b/c he was celebrating and on one skate when he was hit, preventing him from trying to keep his balance when he was hit. Kariya had his back to Pronger, had both skates on the ice, got hit in the back and was knocked to the ice. Again.....Turgeon was out the rest of the playoffs, Kariya came out for his next shift like nothing ever happened.

So hate Pronger. Be my guest, hate him until your cheeks turn blue....but don't even try comparing his hit on Kariya to Hunter's hit on Turgeon. There's no comparison.

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10-17-2003, 07:37 AM
  #75
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
Turgeon was out the rest of the playoffs,
actually Turgeon did return in the playoffs....he missed 7 games but the Isle advanced to the CF that season....and he came back to play some

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