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Blowing Up the Coyotes - Proposals

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Old
12-01-2005, 05:44 PM
  #1
Alberta Yote
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Blowing Up the Coyotes - Proposals

There is a small but vocal group of Coyotes supporters who are getting a little tired of our ongoing and somewhat half-hearted attempts to build a winner (and I'm sure most of this group will abandon me now that I've moved this idea to this board). While we also know that management is very unlikely to go this direction, for the sake of interest and no doubt arguement, what would you be willing to give up for the following players. We are looking for top end players under 25, blue chip prospects or high draft picks only. No salary dumps please. This would be a major rebuild.

Shane Doan
Ladislav Nagy
Paul Mara
Cujo
Derek Morris
Mike Comrie
Petr Nedved
Mike Johnson
Geoff Sanderson

Offer for one, offer for a package.

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12-01-2005, 06:00 PM
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Maybe... Christian Backman, Marek Schwarz, the Blues' second-round pick in 2006 and first-rounder in 2007 for Nagy, Morris and Doan.

I don;t like the idea of trading picks, and will not give up this year's first-rounder (which could be first overall), but a move like this, coupled with the Lalime/Brewer for Nabokov swap mentioned elsewhere on this board, would provide the Blues with some solid young building blocks while prospects like Backes, Oshie, Barulin, Bacashihua, FitzGerald, Jackson and Soderberg were filling out.

P_B


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12-01-2005, 06:02 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue
Christian Backman, Marek Schwarz, the Blues' second-round pick in 2006 and first-rounder in 2007 for Nagy, Morris and Doan.

P_B

They could get much more for those 3...

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12-01-2005, 06:04 PM
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Prussian_Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abyss
They could get much more for those 3...
Probably, but that's what I'd offer. If Phoenix wouldn't take it, I'd have no problem with keeping Backman, Schwarz, and the draft picks.

P_B


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12-01-2005, 06:13 PM
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halco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Yote
There is a small but vocal group of Coyotes supporters who are getting a little tired of our ongoing and somewhat half-hearted attempts to build a winner (and I'm sure most of this group will abandon me now that I've moved this idea to this board). While we also know that management is very unlikely to go this direction, for the sake of interest and no doubt arguement, what would you be willing to give up for the following players. We are looking for top end players under 25, blue chip prospects or high draft picks only. No salary dumps please. This would be a major rebuild.

Shane Doan
Ladislav Nagy
Paul Mara
Cujo
Derek Morris
Mike Comrie
Petr Nedved
Mike Johnson
Geoff Sanderson

Offer for one, offer for a package.

Nagy = 26 yrs old
Mara = 26 yrs old
Comrie = 25 yrs old

Seems to me that you would want to build around these guys, not send them off in deals for draft picks or potential prospects that may or may not pan out. Do not think any of these players or even combinations will get you a "Blue Chip" prospect (by blue chip I'm assuming you mean can't miss (Malkin type player))

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12-01-2005, 06:18 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Yote
There is a small but vocal group of Coyotes supporters who are getting a little tired of our ongoing and somewhat half-hearted attempts to build a winner (and I'm sure most of this group will abandon me now that I've moved this idea to this board). While we also know that management is very unlikely to go this direction, for the sake of interest and no doubt arguement, what would you be willing to give up for the following players. We are looking for top end players under 25, blue chip prospects or high draft picks only. No salary dumps please. This would be a major rebuild.

Shane Doan
Ladislav Nagy
Paul Mara
Cujo
Derek Morris
Mike Comrie
Petr Nedved
Mike Johnson
Geoff Sanderson

Offer for one, offer for a package.
Aren't you overreacting a bit? The Coyotes have been struggling but they are also one point away from a playoff berth. You can attribute much of the problems to the fact that there has been too much player movement and that chemistry hasn't developed. Why don't you give Gretzky a bit more time to fondle with the team for a bit.

They have a nice young core to establish a solid team around.
Especially a great young defense, headed by Ballard, whom I think will be a stud one day.

Nagy - Comrie - Doan
Morris - Ballard
Mara - Michalek

Surround that solid core with some excellent veterans, you have a decent team.

Sanderson - Comrie - Doan
Nagy - Nedved - Johnson
Leclerc - Scatchard - Sjostrom
Nash - Ricci - Devereaux
Lundmark

Mara - Morris
Ballard - O'Donnell
Michalek - Gauthier
Jones

Joseph
Leneveu

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Old
12-01-2005, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halco
Nagy = 26 yrs old
Mara = 26 yrs old
Comrie = 25 yrs old

Seems to me that you would want to build around these guys, not send them off in deals for draft picks or potential prospects that may or may not pan out. Do not think any of these players or even combinations will get you a "Blue Chip" prospect (by blue chip I'm assuming you mean can't miss (Malkin type player))
They're freaking ancient! Clearly in the twilights of their respective careers.

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Old
12-01-2005, 06:50 PM
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I think this thread may be, in part, a response to the Thornton trade and whether the Yotes could have / should have tried to get him.

I actually like what Gretky / Barney are doing...building a good core group and tweaking all the role players (that sounds odd) looking for a good fit.

This year they have added two very good young dmen - Ballard and Michalek that should be key for the next several years.

I think there are three main questions:

Who is the number 1 centre?

Should Doan be the leader of the team or traded while his value is high (he is over rated IMO)?

Is Derrick Morris the cornerstone of the defense?

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Old
12-01-2005, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Why don't you give Gretzky a bit more time to fondle with the team for a bit.
Ewww.

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Old
12-01-2005, 07:40 PM
  #10
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Hasn't Phoenix been in a major rebuild for about 4 years now? I thought that was the whole idea behind dumping veterans for any prospect who was even halfway highly regarded at some point in the past - and *now* it's time to start all over?

They've got a decent shot at the playoffs this year. Give them a couple of years to develop and see whether this group can finally step it up to the next level, don't abandon the ship just after it started sailing.

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12-01-2005, 07:50 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue
Maybe... Christian Backman, Marek Schwarz, the Blues' second-round pick in 2006 and first-rounder in 2007 for Nagy, Morris and Doan.

I don;t like the idea of trading picks, and will not give up this year's first-rounder (which could be first overall), but a move like this, coupled with the Lalime/Brewer for Nabokov swap mentioned elsewhere on this board, would provide the Blues with some solid young building blocks while prospects like Backes, Oshie, Barulin, Bacashihua, FitzGerald, Jackson and Soderberg were filling out.

P_B

Seems like the Blues would be the one wanting to blow up their team before Phoenix does

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Old
12-01-2005, 07:59 PM
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I'd take Mara, Spiller and Doan in L.A.

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12-01-2005, 08:00 PM
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The Coyotes have been playing well since Gretzky got rid of the slackers (Brett Hull retired and they made a couple of trades as well). Don't see why theres a need for a discussion like this. Other than in goal (where Cujo won't be for very long), the future of this franchise looks pretty good

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12-01-2005, 09:07 PM
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Most of these replies centre on a couple of things. The Coyotes have a decent team. Maybe they do but are you all satisfied with "decent" and "mediocre" or would you like a shot at having a top team at some point? We never have. Never.

Yes we have a decent young core and I don't suggest we get rid of all of them. But we don't have veteran assets that will bring anything back outside of Doan, Morris, Cujo, maybe Nedved. So do we keep what we have and hope one day to maybe make the second round of the playoffs, maybe third? Or do we load up on REALLY young talent, have a few years with very high picks (assuming we make the right picks) and hope for some Senator-like elite team success for 3-5 years down the road?

Yes, I am probably over-reacting and should let the team try to develop chemistry, find an identity, and see how they do. I will support them whichever way they go and stick with them for good. I am just getting a bit frustrated with being a fan of a middle of the pack on down type of team.

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12-02-2005, 02:29 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Yote
Most of these replies centre on a couple of things. The Coyotes have a decent team. Maybe they do but are you all satisfied with "decent" and "mediocre" or would you like a shot at having a top team at some point? We never have. Never.

Yes we have a decent young core and I don't suggest we get rid of all of them. But we don't have veteran assets that will bring anything back outside of Doan, Morris, Cujo, maybe Nedved. So do we keep what we have and hope one day to maybe make the second round of the playoffs, maybe third? Or do we load up on REALLY young talent, have a few years with very high picks (assuming we make the right picks) and hope for some Senator-like elite team success for 3-5 years down the road?

Yes, I am probably over-reacting and should let the team try to develop chemistry, find an identity, and see how they do. I will support them whichever way they go and stick with them for good. I am just getting a bit frustrated with being a fan of a middle of the pack on down type of team.
I don't get it. This team was picked to finish anywhere from twenty fifth to deadlast in every pre-season prediction by every major publication. As it stands, we are one point away from making the playoffs. We are obviously not going to win the Stanley cup this season, but we won't be picking top five this summer, either.

Doan, Nagy, Comrie, Mara, Morris, Nash and Gauthier are all just now hitting their primes.

Michalek, Ballard, LeNeveu, Saprykin, and Sjostrom are all still very young NHLers.

Guys like Nedved, Johnson, Leclerc, Sanderson, Devereaux and O'Donnell are currently in their primes, so while keeping the club competetive currently, it is unlikely that any of them will play a major role of the club's success in the future. That said, they are easily replacable.

Cujo is playing great, but he along with Mike Ricci are the only old guys on the team. Odds are, if the Coyotes are out of it come deadline time, he's outta here, anyway.

It's not like all of our best players are thirty four, and we've got a barren prospect pool. Our top guys are in their twenties, and we've got what appears to be some decent prospects coming up in Wheeler, Hanzal, Lisin, Stephenson, Pelletier, ect. Let the core of the team mature together, and see what they are capable of. They haven't had a chance yet. What's the point of blowing them up?


Last edited by rt: 12-02-2005 at 09:41 AM.
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12-02-2005, 02:30 AM
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1st rounder for Doan?

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Old
12-02-2005, 02:37 AM
  #17
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Also, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but do you really think that the franchise can survive in the Phoenix market if they fire sell and celler dwell for the next few years? It sure would be a shame to go to that new fancy arena and be one of only 1,300 people to show up to see the Coyotes lose to the Blue Jackets 7-0 on free ticket night. It would be enough of a challenge making people in the Phoenix area care about the Coyotes if they were in the Stanley Cup Finals, let alone expecting people to drive all the way out to Glendale to see the worst team in the league.

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12-02-2005, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
I'd take Mara, Spiller and Doan in L.A.

Id take them on the Rangers.


How about Spiller and 3rd for Poti???

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12-02-2005, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
I'd take Mara, Spiller and Doan in L.A.

Add in Morris for me(and Nagy of course)

Johnson wouldn't be a bad pick up either.

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12-02-2005, 01:05 PM
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fire the coach

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12-02-2005, 01:07 PM
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i agree 100%. get a real coach. star players should not be given the keys to the team unless they have gotten years of coaching under their belt. awful.

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12-02-2005, 01:11 PM
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Dustin Brown for Doan

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12-02-2005, 01:26 PM
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i agree 100%. get a real coach. star players should not be given the keys to the team unless they have gotten years of coaching under their belt. awful.
Gretzky is better than most coaches in this league. Give me a break.

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12-02-2005, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurcorerock
Seems like the Blues would be the one wanting to blow up their team before Phoenix does
I was thinking the same thing. And based on how bad the Blues have been this year, I'd be shocked if they'd trade a first rounder that could very well be #1 overall in 2007 two years before they know how good/bad they will be.

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12-02-2005, 01:37 PM
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Would something built around Hunter be able to nab Mara for the Isles? Or something around Weinhandl and Hunter for Mara and Johnson?

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