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Most overrated Canuck!

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Old
10-14-2003, 10:21 AM
  #1
greatwhiteshark39
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Most overrated Canuck!

1.Markus Naslund:Can not dispute the fact that he can put up great numbers,but in my opinion,this is on a leadership issue.I just think that come playoof time this guy turns to puddy.I think that either Ed Jovanovski or Trever linden should be captain of this team,they have more heart and determination come playoffs,Jovo 7 goals! Wow!
2.Dan Cloutier:Inconsistent,is the word to discribe this guy!Come playoffs is this the guy you would want between the pipes?Gives up way to many soft goals,and is way to hot tempered.
3.The Sedins!Do you really think that these 2 are 2nd line point producers?Not a chance!they are way better as a checking unit on the 3rd or 4th line.Henrik ,i think has developed more than Daniel .Think that they should have both developed a little more in Manitoba before making the jump!
4.Todd Bertuzzi:I love this guy,but takes the stupidest penelties at the wrong time.If he can stop being hot headed,and lower his ego!He,d be one of the best power forward s ever!

 
Old
10-14-2003, 10:33 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhiteshark39
1.Markus Naslund:Can not dispute the fact that he can put up great numbers,but in my opinion,this is on a leadership issue.I just think that come playoof time this guy turns to puddy.I think that either Ed Jovanovski or Trever linden should be captain of this team,they have more heart and determination come playoffs,Jovo 7 goals! Wow!
2.Dan Cloutier:Inconsistent,is the word to discribe this guy!Come playoffs is this the guy you would want between the pipes?Gives up way to many soft goals,and is way to hot tempered.
3.The Sedins!Do you really think that these 2 are 2nd line point producers?Not a chance!they are way better as a checking unit on the 3rd or 4th line.Henrik ,i think has developed more than Daniel .Think that they should have both developed a little more in Manitoba before making the jump!
4.Todd Bertuzzi:I love this guy,but takes the stupidest penelties at the wrong time.If he can stop being hot headed,and lower his ego!He,d be one of the best power forward s ever!
can't disagree with the Naslund comment... he does need to step it up in the playoffs, and points has nothing to do with it (ie. the Jovo comment)... Nassy was putting up points last years, but didn't show that extra grit when he needed to... Jovo, for all the offense he brings, was a liability on the ice too often in the playoffs... he's better getting no offense, and hitting and playing solid defense, then trying to score every goal and negleting his defensive zone...

Linden is a true playoff performer, always has been... doesn't need a C on his sweater to show leadership!

Henrik and Daniel... they have been playing well this season... tell me, you think that they should have spent more time in Manitoba?? you realize that they came in as MVPs of the Swedish elite league, and Daniel had 20 goals in his rookie season?? do you send a 20 goal rookie back to Manitoba?? everything he has to learn is at the NHL level...

I am not at all disappointed right now with the Sedins... they are playing great, and even in their disappointing seasons, weren't off what many 2nd line players produce.

Bertuzzi... with all this talk about his emotions, and not being able to stay disciplined... I do agree with all that, but this is a brand new season, and he seems to have his discipline where it should be now... before saying he's not able to keep things in check, we should let him play out this season and see what happens... I've been so far impressed with his maturity level this season.... let's hope that it keeps going.

and finally Cloutier... I don't know how anyone can call him inconsistent??

He's consistently good throughout the regular season, and has been the last 2 years...

he's consistently off his game in the playoffs, and has been the last 2 years...

if anything he's been consistent.

The problem with Clouts is 2 things IMO - 1) mental development, and 2) physical readiness... the first thing is up to Cloutier, and as he gains experience, I have confidence he will get better here... and secondly, it seems clear that as of now, he's not able to handle a big workload... play him 60+ games, and expect him to be injuried or playing hurt like he has the past couple years... play him less than 60 games, and I think a healthy Cloutier will be a different player in the playoffs.

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10-14-2003, 10:43 AM
  #3
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in a lot of ways, bertuzzi plays better with emotion, just like jovo... but he needs to know where the line is.

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Old
10-14-2003, 10:45 AM
  #4
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My honest opinion is that i feel

Overrated
1) Cloutier is very overrated by the some fans who completely ignore his weakness which would be bad temper and bad stick handling, both are huge aspects of a goalie game. Even with those two weakness some people still insist on him being a Top 10 goalie in the league, which is clearly not true if you look at the actual performance of the goalie. That is whyi think he is overrated.

2) Chubby, i like this guy who is excellent on the defensive end and good skating ability, but not the complete player that many people make him out to be due to his lack of creativity on offence.

3) Bret Sopel, everyone is jumping on Slegr and Allen for making defensive mistakes, but Sopel is terrible at the defensive end who gives up the puck to the opposition way too much. He is the Scott LaChance of this generation, who looks good because Ohlund makes him look good, much like Jovo made LaChance looked good.

Underrated

1) Sedins, they are so underrated. A lot of people are expecting those two to be Gaborik, Havlat and Kovalchuk type of player, but those are unrealistic expectation. Sedins are unique because they are not the gamebreakers player such as Gaborik and Kovalchuk but very quality two way players who will contribute equally well on both ends. And they have the potential to get about 50 points per season while being +20 as a line. Which is not bad if you compare to Stefan, Brendl or Connelly who were the 1,4,5 pick in the Sedins draft.

2) Nazzy is underrated because he is one of the most consistent scorers in the league and actually play very well in variety aspects of his game this game with his physical play, his committment on the defensive end, and was buzzing all night yesterday but just did not find the net. i am surprise how many people judge the performance of a player base on statistic rather than the actual performance.

3) Salo is a rock solid defenceman, who is good on both ends. He is a poor man of Ohlund, which is very good for a #3 defenceman.

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Old
10-14-2003, 10:49 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
can't disagree with the Naslund comment... he does need to step it up in the playoffs, and points has nothing to do with it (ie. the Jovo comment)... Nassy was putting up points last years, but didn't show that extra grit when he needed to... Jovo, for all the offense he brings, was a liability on the ice too often in the playoffs... he's better getting no offense, and hitting and playing solid defense, then trying to score every goal and negleting his defensive zone...

Linden is a true playoff performer, always has been... doesn't need a C on his sweater to show leadership!

Henrik and Daniel... they have been playing well this season... tell me, you think that they should have spent more time in Manitoba?? you realize that they came in as MVPs of the Swedish elite league, and Daniel had 20 goals in his rookie season?? do you send a 20 goal rookie back to Manitoba?? everything he has to learn is at the NHL level...

I am not at all disappointed right now with the Sedins... they are playing great, and even in their disappointing seasons, weren't off what many 2nd line players produce.

Bertuzzi... with all this talk about his emotions, and not being able to stay disciplined... I do agree with all that, but this is a brand new season, and he seems to have his discipline where it should be now... before saying he's not able to keep things in check, we should let him play out this season and see what happens... I've been so far impressed with his maturity level this season.... let's hope that it keeps going.

and finally Cloutier... I don't know how anyone can call him inconsistent??

He's consistently good throughout the regular season, and has been the last 2 years...

he's consistently off his game in the playoffs, and has been the last 2 years...

if anything he's been consistent.

The problem with Clouts is 2 things IMO - 1) mental development, and 2) physical readiness... the first thing is up to Cloutier, and as he gains experience, I have confidence he will get better here... and secondly, it seems clear that as of now, he's not able to handle a big workload... play him 60+ games, and expect him to be injuried or playing hurt like he has the past couple years... play him less than 60 games, and I think a healthy Cloutier will be a different player in the playoffs.

i think you kinda miss the point, i thought the whole point of this thread was for the posters to express his opinion about who they think as the overrated Canucks. Rather than a debate about how a certain opinion of a poster is not valid.

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Old
10-14-2003, 10:54 AM
  #6
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Linden should have the C. Näslund is one of the leagues best players but Linden deserves the C better.

 
Old
10-14-2003, 10:57 AM
  #7
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Quote:
3) Bret Sopel, everyone is jumping on Slegr and Allen for making defensive mistakes, but Sopel is terrible at the defensive end who gives up the puck to the opposition way too much. He is the Scott LaChance of this generation, who looks good because Ohlund makes him look good, much like Jovo made LaChance looked good.
Ohlund has had plenty of bad years. Sopel had one bad year last season while the season before that , he lead all canucks dmen on the takeaways vs giveaways differential while Ohlund and Jovo were the two worst dmen in that category on the Canucks by far. This is a new season and I thought that Sopel's play has improved with every game so far and he's a solid plus. The only question is whether people will give Sopel a chance or are they going to continue looking at him with a microscope even to the point of ignoring bad play from other dmen.

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10-14-2003, 11:05 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattihp
Linden should have the C. Näslund is one of the leagues best players but Linden deserves the C better.
Sometimes I do wish that the 'Nucks had a different captain so Naslund could focus on what he does best and that is score goals.

He's a quiet leader and a great on/off ice example to the team but he does seem to be a little soft and emotional at times; doesn't have your typical captain's personality but then again neither does Sundin.

I'm undecided about the captaincy thing but admit that I wouldn't be too disappointed to see someone else wearing the 'C'.

Although, I do think that would be more upsetting to the team to switch captains, especially if it were Linden. It's a delicate (pardon the pun j/k) situation for sure.

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Old
10-14-2003, 11:34 AM
  #9
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Most underrated has to be Ohlund. This guy is better that Jovo and should rate as one of the best in the league.

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Old
10-14-2003, 05:06 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhiteshark39
1.Markus Naslund:Can not dispute the fact that he can put up great numbers,but in my opinion,this is on a leadership issue.I just think that come playoof time this guy turns to puddy.I think that either Ed Jovanovski or Trever linden should be captain of this team,they have more heart and determination come playoffs,Jovo 7 goals! Wow!
i'd take Naslund straight off the list. his point totals in the playoffs were great and i never saw any leadership issues during last playoffs. he had some sharp words that circled through the media and stepped up his game (it's hard to produce in the playoffs when you are a player like Naslund because teams double collapse on you). if any leadership issues were had, it was with the defense... an area Jovanovski should have covered. the forwards played great but the defense and Cloutier melted down near the end.

Quote:
2.Dan Cloutier:Inconsistent,is the word to discribe this guy!Come playoffs is this the guy you would want between the pipes?Gives up way to many soft goals,and is way to hot tempered.
not a chance he's overrated. there's nothing ever said about him that's good so how can he be overrated?

Quote:
3.The Sedins!Do you really think that these 2 are 2nd line point producers?Not a chance!they are way better as a checking unit on the 3rd or 4th line.Henrik ,i think has developed more than Daniel .Think that they should have both developed a little more in Manitoba before making the jump!
2 of the most underrated Canucks. nobody seems to understand how valuable their cycling is to our production. if they do not produce (which they will), they wear the defense down for the big line to come on. their defensive skills are top notch, and they are always good for posession (crutial when protecting a lead late in the game). add this to the fact that they will produce this season (they finally have offensively gifted linemates).

Quote:
4.Todd Bertuzzi:I love this guy,but takes the stupidest penelties at the wrong time.If he can stop being hot headed,and lower his ego!He,d be one of the best power forward s ever!
personally... i'd slot Bertuzzi in at #1. he is still a great player and excells at what he does... but he benefits from playing with Naslund and Morrison more than people realize. on a line with lesser linemates i don't see him breaking the 70 point level.

who would i add on the overrated list? Jovanovski and Ohlund both.

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Old
10-14-2003, 05:20 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVP
3) Salo is a rock solid defenceman, who is good on both ends. He is a poor man of Ohlund, which is very good for a #3 defenceman.
I agreed with you there. Salo is a great defenseman and is underrated. Here is my list:

OVERRATED:
1) Dan Coultier
2) Brett Sopel
3) Bertuzzi

UNDERRATED:
1. Ohlund
2. Salo
3. Cooke or Sedin's

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Old
10-14-2003, 05:30 PM
  #12
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Overrated:

1. Naslund
2. Hedberg (people are acting like he's Jesus)
3. Brandon Reid (oo he can skate fast)

Underrated:

1. Sami Salo
2. Mattias Ohlund
3. Trevor Linden

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Old
10-14-2003, 06:45 PM
  #13
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Overrated:

1)Jovanovski-his name should NOT be mentioned in Norris talks. Not yet.

2)Hedberg-not an elite #1...at best-as good as Cloutier.

EDIT-added yet

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Old
10-14-2003, 07:08 PM
  #14
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I wouldn't consider Naslund to be overrated. He had a good playoffs last year. However, I think he isn't a great captain. He's good but Jovo and Linden would make better captains.

Overrated
1.Reid
2.Sopel
3.Cloutier

Underrated
1.Ohlund
2.Salo
3.Cooke

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Old
10-14-2003, 07:13 PM
  #15
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Overrated - Jovo, Naslund, Chubarov

Underrated - Cooke, Salo

I also personally think Lindgren is overrated.....

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10-14-2003, 08:36 PM
  #16
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Being the best player doesnt mean he has to be captain, and vice versa.. it has nothing to do with his production so far.. Last year's playoff, everytime Nazzy on ice... he is a big defensive liability! yes, he does put points up, but what this team now needs is leadership and that extra mean streak from a captain.

Overated:

Naslund/SOPEL

Underrated:

Cooke/Malik/Salo.


Salo really is a rock solid D!!!

Ohlund bad seasons?? well, please also consider how aweful the canucks were at the time when T.O signed him to $10M/ 5 year offer sheet!! Let's just say, it was Messy age...

and SOPEL is just plain AWEFUL defensively!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God, it doesnt matter what his +/- says, I HAVE seen him giving up the puck so easy so fast in his OWN zone!!!

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Old
10-14-2003, 09:07 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
How the flying frig is Sopel considered overrated? He gets slammed relentlessly on these boards, so much that you'd think he was an AHL d-man at best, and he's still overrated? For pity's sake. Judging by this board, Sopel is underrated if anything. Same with Cloutier, most people here recognize that he isn't anything special, hardly a sign of overrating.

Not liking a player does not mean said player is overrated. When you have a large cadre of posters praising the virtues of said player where the praise is undeserved, then he is overrated. The SopelFan-EnergizerScotty coalition is hardly a large cadre.
I agree. It is impossible for cloutier and sopel to be overrated with the amount of abuse they take from the fans. These guys are the scape goats for everything. Has anybody ever called cloutier a solid playoff performer? At worst, he's neutral and best he's underrated. Either way, I fail to see how anybody could consider cloutier overrated.

Jovocop is a guy I consider to be overrated. He is constantly mentioned as a Norris-caliber defenseman yet only plays like one for a fraction of the time (although I will admit last year in the playoffs he was excellent). Still, his consistency as a defender is not where many seem to think it is.

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Old
10-14-2003, 09:32 PM
  #18
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I have no problem with nassy as C, and offering Linden, ( my fav canuck by the way, since 1995) the captaincy is not such a good idea, even though I really would like Linden wearing that C.

True, Nassy is a talented guy and you may never cared for him. But consider what we give up for him!? Alex Stojanov (sp?? ) Heck, one hella steal from the pens.

Anyway, Sopel is overated nt because ppl doesnt like him, or because he taking so much abuse. Its people overating his offensive ability and potential. Ya, he has a lot of potential to be a 1st tier NHL offensive D, but given his Defensive liability, he is not worth much. Look at Tverdovsky, great Offensive, but poor Defensive scares GM's back away signing him.. at least thats what I think anyway..

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Old
10-14-2003, 09:56 PM
  #19
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Overrated: Brandon Reid
Underrated: Everyone Else

The Canucks certainly aren't as bad as other teams when it comes to overrating/underrating. Yes, I agree the Captaincy should lie elsewhere so Naslund can concentrate on scoring goals a la Forsberg in Colorado, letting Sakic handle the leadership while he handles the points. Linden is the heart of the team, look how we do without him.

Reid is heavily overrated, particularly by the canucks.com bunnies. This thread is really pointless as it's just a "let's get down on our own team" thread. WHY? It's 3 games into the ********* year.

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10-14-2003, 10:45 PM
  #20
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Since you did not limit it to players, the most overrated is........

BRIAN BURKE (he actually seems to believe his own press clippings from the tame media in Vancouver)

The credit he has been given for contract negotiations belongs more properly to Dave Nonis as Burke is a complete disaster as a negotiator which is not surprising given his demeanour. Every time Burke strolls into the negotiations it is like a bomb going off.

Steve Tambellini was responsible for reorganizing the farm and scouting systems as well as pro player development and analysis. He is a good judge of talent and very good at what he does - unfortunately Burke sometimes takes it into his head that he knows something about talent and the continuing goaltender debacles are the result.

When these two buffers go I shudder to see what will happen. It will be like Burke's first abrasive and unsuccessful tour of duty under Pat Quinn.

Burke is a lousy businessman. In terms of business expertise it was Stephen Bellringer as the initial CEO of Orca Bay who put the Canucks on the road to a sound financial basis with his replacement Stan McCammon doing a fine job carrying on the plan. Couple this with the stellar work of Dave Cobb as COO who has been instrumental in playing the currency markets and ramping up profits while making the media and marketing dollars flow.

Stanley B. McCammon
Since 1993 Stanley B. McCammon has been President of Orca Bay Capital Corporation, a Seattle, Washington asset management company, whose Chairman is John McCaw (co-founder of both McCaw Cable Co. and McCaw Cellular Communications Inc). Orca Bay deploys its capital in both the public and private securities markets, including an investment in Kistler Aerospace Corporation. Mr. McCammon is also President and CEO of Orca Bay Sports & Entertainment, which owns the NHL Vancouver Canucks and General Motors Place. He represents the hockey team at the league level by serving as an Alternate Governor.
Additionally, Mr. McCammon is a co-founder and partner with John McCaw in Orca Bay Partners, a private equity fund investing in buyout, growth, and other private equity opportunities. Since its inception, Orca Bay Partners has developed a strong reputation for its acumen in investing in financial services businesses. Mr. McCammon is a graduate of the University of Nebraska School of Business, and the Law Schools of the University of Nebraska and New York University holding J.D. and LLM degrees. Prior to joining Orca Bay Capital, Mr. McCammon practiced law in Chicago and Seattle, primarily focusing on tax and business transactional matters.

Dave Cobb
As Chief Operating Officer for the Vancouver Canucks and Orca Bay Sports & Entertainment, Dave Cobb is responsible for leading the overall strategic direction of the company, including broadcast, sponsorship and ticket sales, finance, human resources, communications and arena operations. Cobb, along with Brian Burke, reports directly to Stanley McCammon. A 10-year veteran of the company, prior to his current role, Cobb most recently served as Senior Vice-President of Business. Before that he was Vice-President of Finance, Administration, and the Chief Financial Officer for Orca Bay. Cobb joined the Canucks as controller in 1992 after five years as a senior manager with the national accounting firm, KPMG Peat Marwick Thorne, where he directed the annual audit of the Canucks. Cobb is a graduate of Simon Fraser University where he received a Bachelor of Business Administration, and a member of the B.C. Institute of Chartered Accountants.

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10-14-2003, 11:09 PM
  #21
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I'd go as far as to say Naslund is underrated by Canuck fans, as well as fans outside of BC.

I will say Todd Bertuzzi is the most overrated Canuck.

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Old
10-14-2003, 11:44 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
I'd go as far as to say Naslund is underrated by Canuck fans, as well as fans outside of BC.

I will say Todd Bertuzzi is the most overrated Canuck.
I am confused.

Both were voted as first team all-stars and Naslund was the Pearson MVP.

How can you maintain that Naslund is underrated given the press coverage he garners in Vancouver and Larscheid's incredible homerism?

Similarly how can you say Bertuzzi was overrated when he was high up in the Hart balloting and was an all-star?

If I was to pick an underrated player from last year it would have to be Lindgren as few seemed to appreciate how critical he was to the success of the PK, his face-off prowess and his ability to shut down the other team's top forwards. When he was lost for the last part of the season and play-offs his absence was unable to be accounted for.

I am unable to pick out any clearly overrated player - after all this is not the Maple Laffs.

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10-15-2003, 12:46 AM
  #23
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Underrated
- Salo - Just does everything so well.
- Morrison too most other fans he'd be lucky to make their 2nd line with is bs.

Overrated
- Malik. Look at the other dman who used to play with Jovocop. Mr Lachance... now he has to play with people with much less talent and he sucks. Look at Slegr... pair him up with Jovocop and he "was" looking good. I doubt it would matter who we picked up to play with Jovonovski.. he would make them all look good.

Funny how we loose a game and then all of a sudden all the star players on the Canucks are vastly overrated.

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Old
10-15-2003, 01:06 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrisweb
Underrated
- Salo - Just does everything so well.
- Morrison too most other fans he'd be lucky to make their 2nd line with is bs.

Overrated
- Malik. Look at the other dman who used to play with Jovocop. Mr Lachance... now he has to play with people with much less talent and he sucks. Look at Slegr... pair him up with Jovocop and he "was" looking good. I doubt it would matter who we picked up to play with Jovonovski.. he would make them all look good.

Funny how we loose a game and then all of a sudden all the star players on the Canucks are vastly overrated.

Welcome to Vancouver.


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Old
10-15-2003, 06:04 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
I am confused.

Both were voted as first team all-stars and Naslund was the Pearson MVP.

How can you maintain that Naslund is underrated given the press coverage he garners in Vancouver and Larscheid's incredible homerism?

Similarly how can you say Bertuzzi was overrated when he was high up in the Hart balloting and was an all-star?

If I was to pick an underrated player from last year it would have to be Lindgren as few seemed to appreciate how critical he was to the success of the PK, his face-off prowess and his ability to shut down the other team's top forwards. When he was lost for the last part of the season and play-offs his absence was unable to be accounted for.

I am unable to pick out any clearly overrated player - after all this is not the Maple Laffs.
Bertuzzi with his commercials, TV cameo appearances, and just the fact that he was named to the 1st team all-star shows he's overrated. Bertuzzi benefits too much from playing with Naslund and Morrison, takes too many costly and untimely penalties, and cannot play defense for the life of him to be considered an elite player. he has some good hands, and good size and skill... however on most teams he'd be a 70 point player.

Bertuzzi is constantly made out as a top-10 player, and the best powerforward in the league. i can easily name 10 players i'd rather have and 2 powerforwards (Iginla and Thornton) i'd take ahead of him.

it's not that i don't appreciate him and what he brings to our team, and recognize him as a big talent in the NHL... but he is very overrated.

LaVal is offline  
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