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Old
11-25-2015, 07:19 AM
  #76
DarkandStormy
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
You think Ohio State could win a basketball game right now?
#firethad

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11-25-2015, 09:35 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
But couldn't the top 5 not being that far from the teams ranked 12-15 suggest that this is a very strong year for college football?

I can buy the argument that there is no dominant team like last year when Alabama and Oregon were truly the cream of the crop

But I don't think this is a weak year.
The argument could be made, but I don't think any team passes the eyeball test for any real period of time. I referred earlier to the weakness of the SEC West this year. There's Bammer at 10-1, but then each of Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Texas A&M are 8-3, and LSU is 7-3. But I think they're superficially impressive; none of those teams is particularly strong, simply because (in my opinion from watching them), there are too many holes and too many players who aren't what they will become.

If every team were graded on a 1-10 scale, 1 being Eastern Michigan in any year and 10 being 2001 Miami, there's normally a team or two that's in the high 8s or low 9s, then a handful between an 8 and 8.5. This year, I think #15 is maybe a 7.5, #1 and #2 are maybe an 8.5.

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11-25-2015, 03:14 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
You think Ohio State could win a basketball game right now?
The BasketBucks are the lesser of two train wrecks compared to CSU.

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Old
11-26-2015, 07:20 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jackets Woodchuck View Post
The BasketBucks are the lesser of two train wrecks compared to CSU.
Matta could be in big trouble this year. Buddy of mine is a big Basket-Buck fan, and he says there have been rumblings for a while now about Matta not being able to recruit like he used to. Dude is making way to much money for this crap.

Could be interesting.

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11-26-2015, 07:42 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
Matta could be in big trouble this year. Buddy of mine is a big Basket-Buck fan, and he says there have been rumblings for a while now about Matta not being able to recruit like he used to. Dude is making way to much money for this crap.

Could be interesting.
In this day and age of one and done recruiting has to be tougher than ever especially with programs like Ky, Duke, Kansas & Arizona being almost automatics for the top, top guys.

DeAngelo Russell was recruited 2 years ago now he is gone. Same with Oden, Conley, Cook, Koufas and Mullins. All one and doners. Sullinger 2 and through. Recruit top guys they don't stay; don't recruit them and you suffer.

Somehow I think the sweet spot is guys ranked say 25-30 through 75 or so and hope you get guys that produce and stay for at least 3 years. Easier said than done.

That being said I have never been a big Matta fan. He is a terrible bench coach imo and his players don't seem to get better over time.

If he fell victim to lousy recruiting I wouldn't be upset.

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11-26-2015, 08:02 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
In this day and age of one and done recruiting has to be tougher than ever especially with programs like Ky, Duke, Kansas & Arizona being almost automatics for the top, top guys.

DeAngelo Russell was recruited 2 years ago now he is gone. Same with Oden, Conley, Cook, Koufas and Mullins. All one and doners. Sullinger 2 and through. Recruit top guys they don't stay; don't recruit them and you suffer.

Somehow I think the sweet spot is guys ranked say 25-30 through 75 or so and hope you get guys that produce and stay for at least 3 years. Easier said than done.

That being said I have never been a big Matta fan. He is a terrible bench coach imo and his players don't seem to get better over time.

If he fell victim to lousy recruiting I wouldn't be upset.
Meh. One-and-done silliness has a large part to do with why I just can't bring myself to care about NCAA basketball. That and the fact that it's basketball.

I mean, I want to see Ohio State do well, if only because my grandfather is a fan (IIRC the 1960s championship teams came when he was a biology and entomology professor there - I've never known if he actually had any students on those teams or not, but he's sometimes talked as though he did), but that's really kind of it.

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11-26-2015, 11:58 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
In this day and age of one and done recruiting has to be tougher than ever especially with programs like Ky, Duke, Kansas & Arizona being almost automatics for the top, top guys.

DeAngelo Russell was recruited 2 years ago now he is gone. Same with Oden, Conley, Cook, Koufas and Mullins. All one and doners. Sullinger 2 and through. Recruit top guys they don't stay; don't recruit them and you suffer.

Somehow I think the sweet spot is guys ranked say 25-30 through 75 or so and hope you get guys that produce and stay for at least 3 years. Easier said than done.

That being said I have never been a big Matta fan. He is a terrible bench coach imo and his players don't seem to get better over time.

If he fell victim to lousy recruiting I wouldn't be upset.
Ah yes, the Bill Snyder method of recruiting.

Ultimately I think the issue is because of a fundamental disconnect between what Ohio State is and what the powers-that-be think it is. The latter thinks that Ohio State should be contending every year, that Ohio State should be going toe-to-toe with the perennial powerhouses for recruits and attention, and that Ohio State should not have to compromise anything to be the best of the best.

But it ignores reality. The reality is that college basketball recruiting is a disgusting, sleazy business; if you want access of any type to the best recruits who can come in and be dominant players from the time they step on the court as freshmen, you have to dance with the devil. And if you dance with the devil....well, you're going all the way. The only elite coach and elite program that's avoided this for the most part has been Duke, and a good part of that is because Coach K simply avoids kids with too much baggage or too much negative off-court association.

I actually think Matta has done an admirable job. The one-and-done rule has changed the entire landscape of basketball from the lowest to the highest levels, and he's basically torn between the "Get the best of the best and never compromise this university's core principles" and the "Everyone's doing it, and you'll never get the best without getting dirty" factions. He's in one of the worst possible positions, and although the titles aren't there to show for it, the fact that they've contended regularly despite some very trying circumstances in a very tough conference is a credit to the job that he's done.

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11-27-2015, 08:23 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I actually think Matta has done an admirable job. The one-and-done rule has changed the entire landscape of basketball from the lowest to the highest levels, and he's basically torn between the "Get the best of the best and never compromise this university's core principles" and the "Everyone's doing it, and you'll never get the best without getting dirty" factions. He's in one of the worst possible positions, and although the titles aren't there to show for it, the fact that they've contended regularly despite some very trying circumstances in a very tough conference is a credit to the job that he's done.
I agree.

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11-27-2015, 08:28 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Ah yes, the Bill Snyder method of recruiting.

Ultimately I think the issue is because of a fundamental disconnect between what Ohio State is and what the powers-that-be think it is. The latter thinks that Ohio State should be contending every year, that Ohio State should be going toe-to-toe with the perennial powerhouses for recruits and attention, and that Ohio State should not have to compromise anything to be the best of the best.

But it ignores reality. The reality is that college basketball recruiting is a disgusting, sleazy business; if you want access of any type to the best recruits who can come in and be dominant players from the time they step on the court as freshmen, you have to dance with the devil. And if you dance with the devil....well, you're going all the way. The only elite coach and elite program that's avoided this for the most part has been Duke, and a good part of that is because Coach K simply avoids kids with too much baggage or too much negative off-court association.

I actually think Matta has done an admirable job. The one-and-done rule has changed the entire landscape of basketball from the lowest to the highest levels, and he's basically torn between the "Get the best of the best and never compromise this university's core principles" and the "Everyone's doing it, and you'll never get the best without getting dirty" factions. He's in one of the worst possible positions, and although the titles aren't there to show for it, the fact that they've contended regularly despite some very trying circumstances in a very tough conference is a credit to the job that he's done.
Agreed, and I am not one calling for a change.

Every program will have it's ups and downs, and I think Matta can bring this one back. I believe one of the knocks on him has been his inability to recruit a big center. But those guys are like #1 centers in the NHL. Tough to come by. Those guys will always gravitate to the Duke's and UNC's, and Kentucky's of the world. And then be in the NBA the following year. Or, just by-pass college hoops altogether.

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11-27-2015, 10:46 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
Agreed, and I am not one calling for a change.

Every program will have it's ups and downs, and I think Matta can bring this one back. I believe one of the knocks on him has been his inability to recruit a big center. But those guys are like #1 centers in the NHL. Tough to come by. Those guys will always gravitate to the Duke's and UNC's, and Kentucky's of the world. And then be in the NBA the following year. Or, just by-pass college hoops altogether.
Koufus, Mullins, Oden, Sullinger....

All four played/play center in the NBA.

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11-27-2015, 03:22 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
Agreed, and I am not one calling for a change.

Every program will have it's ups and downs, and I think Matta can bring this one back. I believe one of the knocks on him has been his inability to recruit a big center. But those guys are like #1 centers in the NHL. Tough to come by. Those guys will always gravitate to the Duke's and UNC's, and Kentucky's of the world. And then be in the NBA the following year. Or, just by-pass college hoops altogether.
I do think that one big thing that's hurt Matta has been the relative inability to develop players at the collegiate level. Most of the top guys going to the NBA are being drafted on potential more than on what they've shown, and there have been a ton of guys who have arrived over the years and simply never improved to any meaningful amount. And it's not just one or two guys out of each class.

I think some of that goes back to Matta's position. Do you develop the players at the possible expense of wins, knowing that your fans and bosses won't tolerate a middle of the road finish in the B1G? Or do you go for the wins, even at the expense of developing players? The latter would eventually hurt recruiting, since the elite prospects don't want to go somewhere and run the risk of ending up in Europe after three middling seasons in college.

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11-27-2015, 09:30 PM
  #87
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List your favorite OSU/TUN memory

Mine is when one of the most arrogant *ichigan players ever, Mike Hart said He was coming back for his senior season because he hadn't beat the Buckeyes yet

Mike.......you never will, you went 0-4 against OSU and that will NEVER change.....Ever

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11-27-2015, 10:15 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by BlueJacketsFan4Life View Post
List your favorite OSU/TUN memory

Mine is when one of the most arrogant *ichigan players ever, Mike Hart said He was coming back for his senior season because he hadn't beat the Buckeyes yet

Mike.......you never will, you went 0-4 against OSU and that will NEVER change.....Ever
In a way this has already changed. Hart is a coach for Western Michigan, who lost earlier this year to Ohio State, so now he is 0-5.

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11-27-2015, 10:38 PM
  #89
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In a way this has already changed. Hart is a coach for Western Michigan, who lost earlier this year to Ohio State, so now he is 0-5.
even better


How bout Anthony Gonzalez catch with 45 seconds left and the Buckeyes down 21-19 in the 4th quarter? anyone?

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11-28-2015, 09:56 AM
  #90
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Go Bucks! Go Nittany Lions!

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11-28-2015, 10:02 AM
  #91
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I hear there is a game today? Something about going north till you smell it and west till you step in it.

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11-28-2015, 01:35 PM
  #92
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even better


How bout Anthony Gonzalez catch with 45 seconds left and the Buckeyes down 21-19 in the 4th quarter? anyone?
Was that the one where he ran out of bounds first, caught the ball without it having been deflected, and wasn't penalized for it?

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11-28-2015, 01:54 PM
  #93
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So far this has been an incredibly satisfying game to watch. UM's defense is soooo demoralized right now as the Buckeyes continuously grinding down the field for TD after TD.

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11-28-2015, 01:59 PM
  #94
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I like how there's no OSU football talk in here until you get one stray post and then half of it is the Mayor trolling.

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11-28-2015, 02:13 PM
  #95
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Was that the one where he ran out of bounds first, caught the ball without it having been deflected, and wasn't penalized for it?
The same one where the Michigan defender blocked him out of bounds? Yeah it is.

This is getting old and tiresome.

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11-28-2015, 02:25 PM
  #96
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Was that the one where he ran out of bounds first, caught the ball without it having been deflected, and wasn't penalized for it?
Close....the one where he came back in bounds after being forced out and re-established himself as an eligible receiver

Enjoying the game this afternoon I trust?


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11-28-2015, 03:14 PM
  #97
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Good game for the Bucks. Only weak spot I saw was the pass d. I've been sitting here thinking can a 3 point loss in less than ideal conditions to a pretty darn good team really keep them out of the playoffs?

Assuming MSU beats Iowa convincingly in the championship game and ND beats Stanford which 2 one loss teams will have lost to a better team than OSU (Michigan State by 3) and ND (Clemson by 3 also I think-might have been 4)? If Oklahoma wins tonight they lost to 4-8 Texas. If Stanford beats ND that gives the Irish 2 losses. Baylor and TCU both have 2 losses.

I guess the right thing to do is ignore my long time fandom for ND and root for Stanford. And the Cowboys of the other OSU.

Bottom line is I think there is still hope after today's win.

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11-28-2015, 03:38 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Good game for the Bucks. Only weak spot I saw was the pass d. I've been sitting here thinking can a 3 point loss in less than ideal conditions to a pretty darn good team really keep them out of the playoffs?

Assuming MSU beats Iowa convincingly in the championship game and ND beats Stanford which 2 one loss teams will have lost to a better team than OSU (Michigan State by 3) and ND (Clemson by 3 also I think-might have been 4)? If Oklahoma wins tonight they lost to 4-8 Texas. If Stanford beats ND that gives the Irish 2 losses. Baylor and TCU both have 2 losses.

I guess the right thing to do is ignore my long time fandom for ND and root for Stanford. And the Cowboys of the other OSU.

Bottom line is I think there is still hope after today's win.
This would represent an absolutely absurd action on the part of the committee, particularly compared to last year.

Remember that last year, TCU and Baylor were both kept out of the playoffs largely because they didn't play in a conference championship game at all. And the team that had far and away the worst loss among the one-loss teams (Ohio State at home to a 6-6 Virginia Tech team) managed to get into the playoff picture.

I don't see how, given the choice of one unbeaten and four one-loss teams, a bad loss by Oklahoma to Texas would count against them. I definitely don't see how Ohio State couldn't be penalized for not playing in a conference championship game. If the scenario from last year took place five or ten years ago, that would be one thing; since it happened just a year ago and the committee making the selections is basically the same as it was then, to dismantle their own arguments from then for this year would be the height of absurdity.

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11-28-2015, 03:39 PM
  #99
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11-28-2015, 03:44 PM
  #100
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I was for an 8 game playoff last year and even more so this year. Ohio State could possibly win it all again if they make it into the playoffs.

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