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Old
12-05-2005, 01:33 PM
  #26
ti-vite
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Originally Posted by BORAT
no no !!! not at all ! he heard it from some people specualting ! I never said it came from Habs Brass !!!!
Its written black on white that you stated as being between BG and Andre Savard urinals peeing as they were discussing this possibility openly and loudly, through you somehow as if you were invisible or very short.


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12-05-2005, 01:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Luongo is a UFA I think.
If I,m not mistaking, Luongo wil become RFA at season end. He will be eligible to UFA the following year

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Old
12-05-2005, 01:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Stone Cutter
If I,m not mistaking, Luongo wil become RFA at season end. He will be eligible to UFA the following year
Ok, no sweat. I'd rather have Marty anyway...

Seems like a good time to get out of NJ and I'm sure he'd love to tug on the CH to finish out his incredible career with a Cup or two in his hometown.

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12-05-2005, 01:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Big Sexy
As much as Theo has been streaky this season he is still a great goalie, much better then Cloutier. I mean cmon most Canuck fans complain about Cloutier more then we do of Theo, on top of that Cloutier is often injured.

Jovo has played pretty bad this season and we have an up and coming power forward in Latendresse so we don't need another one making way too much money in Bert. (im not comparing bert and tender....dont worry)

Primarily I dont want to get rid of Ryder, this guy is only gonna get better. He started off slow but wait till the end of the season.

So on this deal its a big NO.

Well Theo isn't just streaky this year, he's been inconsistent for 3-4 years now. His MVP season, or should we say half season he was amazing. Followed up by a piss poor season, followed by an up and down season although solid overall, now followed by another piss poor season.

Now i am not a big fan of Cloutier, but i get to see him a lot. Basically i get to see all canuck games. He gets bad press because of some bad goals and playoff performances, but guess what, Theo lets in more soft goal, and has been just as bad in the playoffs. Cloutier won't steal you as many games, but he probably doesn't lose as many as Theodore.

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12-05-2005, 01:44 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Nash13
Well Theo isn't just streaky this year, he's been inconsistent for 3-4 years now. His MVP season, or should we say half season he was amazing. Followed up by a piss poor season, followed by an up and down season although solid overall, now followed by another piss poor season.

Now i am not a big fan of Cloutier, but i get to see him a lot. Basically i get to see all canuck games. He gets bad press because of some bad goals and playoff performances, but guess what, Theo lets in more soft goal, and has been just as bad in the playoffs. Cloutier won't steal you as many games, but he probably doesn't lose as many as Theodore.
Cloutier also plays in front of a much better defense tho...I have a feeling Theodore would be a giant behind a defense like they have in Van.

Doesn't Cloutier thrive when he gets more shots? Maybe that was just early in his career?

Canuck fans constantly say that he is an excellent regular season goalie tho.

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12-05-2005, 01:47 PM
  #31
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I would do this as a Habs fan, no doubt about it. Let's face it, we're not a contender so we could do fine with Cloutier for a couple of seasons in nets while we wait for Price and Danis to develop. Bertuzzi would be that powerforward we always needed and Jovo would be a very welcomed addition on the blueline.

I would only do this deal if Jovo signs a contract extension though, don't want to risk and lose him to florida as a UFA at the end of the season.

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Old
12-05-2005, 01:51 PM
  #32
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I'd be all over this one.

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Old
12-05-2005, 01:56 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
glad you find it funny, whether theres any validity to the proposal i don't know. But i'd break it down as:

Theo+ second > Bertuzzi + Cloutier. (Clouts likely having negative value.

Jovo for Ryder and Souray is pretty equal
Wow, very different perspective. I think you're overstating Jovanovski's value by a lot. An expensive impending UFA who is as prone, if not more so, to defensive errors as Souray. Adding Ryder way over-compensates for Jovanovski's superior offensive abilities.

IMO, Theodore is worth more than Bertuzzi and Cloutier. I have little confidence in Cloutier, and he's signed for a decent penny for a couple of years. If Cloutier isn't the man to carry the team through the playoffs, then trading for Bertuzzi now is totally pointless. It would make no sense to get Cloutier as a stop-gap until Price or Danis or a FA takes over while the Habs are paying 5million + for Bertuzzi. You only trade for Bertuzzi and his contract now if you think he makes the team a more dangerous opponent now.

I just see it as a major downgrade in goal for more salary and a rental, and a waste of Bertuzzi. I'd be stunned if Gainey made this trade.

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Old
12-05-2005, 02:09 PM
  #34
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Personally I see it as :

Jovo > Souray (if only for his offensive skills)
Bertuzzi > Ryder (even supposing he doesn't get back to his old self)
Theodore >= Cloutier

I could care less about the 2nd rounder.

Theodore has proven squat in the playoffs. So I don't really care about "downgrading" with Cloutier.

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Old
12-05-2005, 02:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by davedave
Wow, very different perspective. I think you're overstating Jovanovski's value by a lot. An expensive impending UFA who is as prone, if not more so, to defensive errors as Souray. Adding Ryder way over-compensates for Jovanovski's superior offensive abilities.

IMO, Theodore is worth more than Bertuzzi and Cloutier. I have little confidence in Cloutier, and he's signed for a decent penny for a couple of years. If Cloutier isn't the man to carry the team through the playoffs, then trading for Bertuzzi now is totally pointless. It would make no sense to get Cloutier as a stop-gap until Price or Danis or a FA takes over while the Habs are paying 5million + for Bertuzzi. You only trade for Bertuzzi and his contract now if you think he makes the team a more dangerous opponent now.

I just see it as a major downgrade in goal for more salary and a rental, and a waste of Bertuzzi. I'd be stunned if Gainey made this trade.
It makes tons of sense for Vancouver I would assume. They free up salary and get an elite goalie (a sore spot for them). Souray is no Jovo offensively, but very similar defensively. Jovo uses speed to make up for errors and Souray plays a bit more conservatively.

Bertuzzi is not playing hard this season. I assume he won't be back to normal until the court case blows over. Getting out of the West would be great for him tho. He also implodes come playoff time, something Canuck fans must be sick of.

Ryder is a cheap scorer who would work well with the Sedins and Montreal could replace him with Perezhogin in the top 6.

Everything seems to fit in this proposal. I like it. But our defense will still need upgrading even after this deal and we'll need Brodeur. It only makes sense if they go and get Brodeur. Otherwise, just living with Clouts in nets is a non-starter for me.

Maybe we could swing a package to Jersey for Brodeur? I doubt it, but you never know.

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Old
12-05-2005, 02:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
Personally I see it as :

Jovo > Souray (if only for his offensive skills)
Bertuzzi > Ryder (even supposing he doesn't get back to his old self)
Theodore >= Cloutier

I could care less about the 2nd rounder.

Theodore has proven squat in the playoffs. So I don't really care about "downgrading" with Cloutier.
I agree with most of what you said except I think Theodore >> Cloutier - when he plays average like this year he's like Cloutier but he can excell and be a elite goaltender as well. Will he excell again and with consistency is the question?

I would definitely consider the trade, with some revisions.

Of Theo, Souray, and Ryder, it's Ryder I would be sad to see leave. With Ryder and Theo in the package adding a 2nd rounder is also giving too much.

How about switch Ryder for Zednik? A winger would have to remain in the package because the Canucks will want one to replace a departing Bertuzzi.

Something like this:

Theo + Souray + Zednik + 2nd OR 3rd rounder <-----> Cloutier + Bertuzzi + Jovo

In the end, the heart of this trade is really Theo for Bertuzzi with some equalizers added.

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Old
12-05-2005, 02:30 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Turbo
I agree with most of what you said except I think Theodore >> Cloutier - when he plays average like this year he's like Cloutier but he can excell and be a elite goaltender as well. Will he excell again and with consistency is the question?

I would definitely consider the trade, with some revisions.

Of Theo, Souray, and Ryder, it's Ryder I would be sad to see leave. With Ryder and Theo in the package adding a 2nd rounder is also giving too much.

How about switch Ryder for Zednik? A winger would have to remain in the package because the Canucks will want one to replace a departing Bertuzzi.

Something like this:

Theo + Souray + Zednik + 2nd OR 3rd rounder <-----> Cloutier + Bertuzzi + Jovo

In the end, the heart of this trade is really Theo for Bertuzzi with some equalizers added.
Zednik or Ryder, I'd still do it. Zednik is just brain dead in his own zone this year, but seems to have improved lately.

Gainey said he wanted to maintain the chemistry on the team tho, so it would be surprising to see a deal like this. But Vancouver to LA is a much quicker flight for Souray's wife (assuming they still have a shot together).

Cloutier would only be short-term I would hope. We're not winning the Cup this year anyway.

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Old
12-05-2005, 02:32 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob ********


OK stop the joke, what is the real proposal?
Bert + Jovo + Cloutier > Theo + Ryder + Souray + Scnd pick
I would do it in a second but that is too big a trade to pull off in this day and age.

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Old
12-05-2005, 02:33 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
I would do it in a second but that is too big a trade to pull off in this day and age.
What about the Thornton trade??

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Old
12-05-2005, 02:58 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Cloutier also plays in front of a much better defense tho...I have a feeling Theodore would be a giant behind a defense like they have in Van.

Doesn't Cloutier thrive when he gets more shots? Maybe that was just early in his career?

Canuck fans constantly say that he is an excellent regular season goalie tho.

Well its tough to say with Theodore. The defense this year is doing a fine job limiting chances, but problem is, every chance opposing teams get, seem to go in on Theodore. Jose is getting beat by bad angled shots, plus not making many big saves. I think people overstate the gap between Theodore and Clouts. Theo has another level compared to Clouts, but how much we see is an equalizing factor.

And the fact is, there is a huge gap between Jovo and Souray. If a guy is UFA next year, it has to be sign and trade imo, or you take out Ryder, and add say Pleks, or someone else. Jovo is better than Souray in every category, and isn't as injury prone nor off ice issues.

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Old
12-05-2005, 03:12 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BORAT
Theo
Ryder
Souray
Scnd Pick

for

Bertuzzi
Jovy
Cloutier

If you guys heard any version of this trade rumour, keep me posted !
Take out Ryder and put Ribeiro and Dagenais and a 4th instead of a second and we have a deal.

Wow that would be great

Zednik-Koivu-Kovy
Ryder-Plek-Bert

The second line looks much better then,Ryder-Ribs-Dags

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Old
12-05-2005, 03:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life
Take out Ryder and put Ribeiro and Dagenais and a 4th instead of a second and we have a deal.

Wow that would be great

Zednik-Koivu-Kovy
Ryder-Plek-Bert

The second line looks much better then,Ryder-Ribs-Dags
vancouver does not need a 2nd line center theres no way they do the trade without ryder, for me if we remove the 2nd rounder i would do it, cloutier is signed for how long at how much?

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Old
12-05-2005, 03:26 PM
  #43
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Drop Ryder (no way do I want to lost that guy) and Jovanoski (fair huh ) and I would like this trade, only because it would be stacked in our favour

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12-05-2005, 03:34 PM
  #44
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This trade would be awesome. I'd hate to see Theo leave, but Bertuzzi and Jovo would be a huge upgrade.

Jovo and Souray aren't similar in any fashion. Jovo is a much better d-man than Souray, in every aspect of the game. And a Bert-Koivu-Kovy line? That would be ridiculous and wicked fun to watch.

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Old
12-05-2005, 03:37 PM
  #45
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I'd do it like this if no goalies were involved:
Bertuzzi+Jovo for Souray+Ryder+Bulis+Streit (nah just kidding)+2nd rounder.

But still, this is a risky deal because Jovo needs to be signed because he's an upcoming UFA, Bertuzzi would be a PR nightmare (and he has chronic back problems from what I hear). No sir. If Theo's gonna be involved in any deal it has to be one which sends Luongo our way. Remember the Theo+Ryder for Luongo rumours? Some were thinking it was a done deal back in August. So much for that. If we acquired Luongo, I'd also sign him to a contract slightly under Theodore's. This way we save a bit of money and pick up a better goalie, IMO. Oh, I can dream though. Colorado wants Roberto and if Florida's out of it still in March, they might have to cough up Svatos/Tanguay, a pick and Liles to make the deal work. Can we offer similar? Yes I think so (I say Theodore, Ribeiro, Souray, Bulis for Luongo and Bouwmeester!!!). But Lacroix just knows how to get a deal through. Hey, how bout a 3-way trade:

TO MTL:
Luongo, Bouwmeester
TO FLA:
Theodore, Ribeiro, Souray, Bulis
THEN TO COL:
Theodore, Souray
BACK TO FLA:
Tanguay, Liles, Abiescher.

FLA gets it good: Abby, Bulis, Ribeiro, Liles, Tanguay while losing Bouwmeester and Luongo. COL loses Tanguay, Liles and Abiescher and gets Theodore and Souray. We lose Theo, Souray, Ribeiro, Bulis and pick up Luongo and Bowmeester.
Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev (a great playoff line before and will be again)
Ryder-Plekanec-Perezhogin (Less wussy and defensively inept than before thanks to Plek's presence down the middle)
Begin-Bonk-Sundstrom (defensive shutdown, PK specialist, shorthanded threat)
Dagenais/goon-Murray-Higgins (grinder line)

(sorry I don't know sides our D-men play but pairings could go)
Markov-Bouwmeester (drools)
Komisarek-Rivet (ouch that'll hit you hard)
Boullion-Dandeneault
7th: Streit (cringes)

Luongo
Huet/Danis

(Ooo how controversial, 6 French-speaking players-if you count Huet 7-2 forwards, 2 d-men, 2 goalies)

Hey, but add Latendresse, Kostitsyn and Chipchura into that mix next year and you have a legitemate power team with some grit. And one RDS will surely hate because of its lack of French-Canadians though (hey, the 86 team only had 7 of them out of the 25 or so players who got their name on the cup!). This is my dream scenario. Though we'd lose valuable parts like Ribs, Souray and Theo we still get better, IMO.

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12-05-2005, 04:19 PM
  #46
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I'd do a Theo for Brodeur combo. Marty's a UFA...

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Old
12-05-2005, 04:23 PM
  #47
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we don't want that piece of garbage that is Bertuzzi

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Old
12-05-2005, 05:00 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob ********


OK stop the joke, what is the real proposal?
Bert + Jovo + Cloutier > Theo + Ryder + Souray + Scnd pick


Out of curiosity, does Gainey consult janitor before pulling a deal?

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Old
12-05-2005, 05:05 PM
  #49
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Take the 2nd rounder out of this one if you're going to do something similar. Bertuzzi, at it stands, seems like he's grossly overpaid for the role he is playing for the Canucks. When you have respect a 39m cap, you can't take too many 5m players who won't bring to the team as his salary would suggest. With that being said, I would probably do Bertuzzi for Ryder, cap room questions aside. I just don't think the original rumour makes much sense for the Habs: acquiring a 5m guy and an average goalthender only to give up a cheaper, younger top-six forward and one of the league's top goalthenders. No thanks.

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:00 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hab-a-maniac
how bout a 3-way trade:

TO MTL:
Luongo, Bouwmeester
TO FLA:
Theodore, Ribeiro, Souray, Bulis
THEN TO COL:
Theodore, Souray
BACK TO FLA:
Tanguay, Liles, Abiescher.

FLA gets it good: Abby, Bulis, Ribeiro, Liles, Tanguay while losing Bouwmeester and Luongo. COL loses Tanguay, Liles and Abiescher and gets Theodore and Souray. We lose Theo, Souray, Ribeiro, Bulis and pick up Luongo and Bowmeester.
Your trade makes no sense what so ever.. COL would be giving up Tanguay, Liles and Abiescher to get Theodore and Souray? Who in their right mind would do that trade?

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