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Hawks trade Matt Ellison to Flyers for Sharp, Meloche

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Old
12-05-2005, 05:54 PM
  #26
clefty
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Heh. Sharp got traded for Ellison in my EHM game like a year ago.

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:00 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceUNO
so with sharp gone, umberger is there to stay?
Umberger would have made the big boys club but there was the cap issue. The issue all could have been avoided if Brashear we're on IR IMO.

Do we have any volunteers?

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12-05-2005, 06:03 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claypool
Umberger will be part of the Luongo deal.
Id honestly give him up for Luongo.

I wouldnt give them Carter,Richards,Eager, Pitkanen, or Gagne......but i would give them Primeau, Umberger, Radivojevic, Stevenson, Brashear, Therian, Storr, Chouinard, Some of our other Phantoms.

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:07 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost
but i would give them Primeau, Umberger, Radivojevic, Stevenson, Brashear, Therian, Storr, Chouinard, Some of our other Phantoms.
We won't be getting Luongo for any of that.

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:11 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf
We won't be getting Luongo for any of that.

For Umberger, Primeau, Storr, and Stevenson?

Umberger could be a franchise player if given the right minutes, Primeau gives great leadership (though he is often injured) Storr i dont know much about but i think a goalie will be needing to go the other way. Stevenson is also a veteran player who can give some leadership.

EDIT

now that i think about it id be willing to part with Robert Esche to.

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:15 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost
For Umberger, Primeau, Storr, and Stevenson?

Umberger could be a franchise player if given the right minutes, Primeau gives great leadership (though he is often injured) Storr i dont know much about but i think a goalie will be needing to go the other way. Stevenson is also a veteran player who can give some leadership.

EDIT

now that i think about it id be willing to part with Robert Esche to.
I would suspect you would have to part with someone of the Carter/Richards calibre... I would guess alot of teams would be lining up to get Luongo if he were on the market, and I would think Florida could command a solid blue chip 1st liner in return.

Umberger may be a 1st liner... but I think Florida could do alot better.

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:17 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost
For Umberger, Primeau, Storr, and Stevenson?

Umberger could be a franchise player if given the right minutes, Primeau gives great leadership (though he is often injured) Storr i dont know much about but i think a goalie will be needing to go the other way. Stevenson is also a veteran player who can give some leadership.

EDIT

now that i think about it id be willing to part with Robert Esche to.
as a Flyers fan I have to tell you something, you are embarrassing yourself, if you are smoking then I understand. Umberger is not a franchise player, Primeau has no value,Storr? are you serious and Stevenson has been hurt more than healthy and is a dime a dozen type player.

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:25 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
as a Flyers fan I have to tell you something, you are embarrassing yourself, if you are smoking then I understand. Umberger is not a franchise player, Primeau has no value,Storr? are you serious and Stevenson has been hurt more than healthy and is a dime a dozen type player.

Primeau has got to have some value....yeah he gets injured big but i think hes still one of the best leaders in the league....Umberger has been playing in the top 3 lines of Philadelphia who are completely stacked. Umberger is right up there with Carter and Richards....Though he wasnt hyped as much because he wasnt a Flyers Draft Pick.


For a second there i forgot about Robert Esche in through in Storr because his name was in my mind for some reason...

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Old
12-05-2005, 06:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost
Primeau has got to have some value....yeah he gets injured big but i think hes still one of the best leaders in the league....Umberger has been playing in the top 3 lines of Philadelphia who are completely stacked. Umberger is right up there with Carter and Richards....Though he wasnt hyped as much because he wasnt a Flyers Draft Pick.


For a second there i forgot about Robert Esche in through in Storr because his name was in my mind for some reason...
Disagree with the Umberger comparisions, he will be a very solid player but doesn't have their skill that I can see as of yet. What do you honestly think Primeau can get you>? concussion problems 4mm a year, has more value to the Flyers at this point. even with Esche still no deal.

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Old
12-05-2005, 07:19 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
Disagree with the Umberger comparisions, he will be a very solid player but doesn't have their skill that I can see as of yet. What do you honestly think Primeau can get you>? concussion problems 4mm a year, has more value to the Flyers at this point. even with Esche still no deal.


Umberger is playing just as well if not maybe a slight bit better then Carter? Richards i think is the standout rookie for his grit and team play.

what can Primeau bring, need i remind you of the Eastern Conferance Finals versus Tampa Bay?

If Eric Lindros can get traded, i think its safe to say the Keith Primeau can get traded.

Esche is a World Cup Goaltender, a number one goalie, and a competitive goalie.



Keith Primeau
Rj Umberger
Robert Esche

for

Roberto Luongo?

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Old
12-05-2005, 07:21 PM
  #36
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Umberger would not be a central component of a Luongo deal..you're over-rating RJ's value.

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Old
12-05-2005, 08:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incawg
Umberger would not be a central component of a Luongo deal..you're over-rating RJ's value.
Not that I agree with the proposal, but I think he's saying it's 3 good players for one really good player. Where have we seen this before...Joe Thornton anybody?

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Old
12-05-2005, 08:25 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trippyime
Not that I agree with the proposal, but I think he's saying it's 3 good players for one really good player. Where have we seen this before...Joe Thornton anybody?
But the three he's sugesting aren't good players. Good players are Sturm and Stuart... what he suggested were bad/marginal players.

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Old
12-05-2005, 08:29 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
But the three he's sugesting aren't good players. Good players are Sturm and Stuart... what he suggested were bad/marginal players.
in what world is Keith Primeau a bad/marginal player?

while i agree the poster is out to lunch on what it will take to land Luongo, dont bother with the cliche's. BKP is an elite big centre that would play a prominent role on every playoff team.

DR

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Old
12-05-2005, 08:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
in what world is Keith Primeau a bad/marginal player?

while i agree the poster is out to lunch on what it will take to land Luongo, dont bother with the cliche's. BKP is an elite big centre that would play a prominent role on every playoff team.

DR
Except for the fact that he's out for likely the season with a concussion... which has to raise a few alarm bells.

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Old
12-05-2005, 09:04 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
Except for the fact that he's out for likely the season with a concussion... which has to raise a few alarm bells.
No, that's not true at all. He's improved over the last week or so and is still on schedule to be back. He was put on longterm IR so he can save money. I agree that his proposal for Luongo would not get it done, but to say Primeau and Umberger are "bad" players is just as wrong, and a shows a fundamental lack of knowledge when it comes to those players.

And RJ Umberger is not a "bad" or "marginal" player, in any way. He's a good player now, and a guy who still has potential to be a real good 2nd line player in the future. If the Flyers didn't have absolutely ridiculous depth at center, he would have been playing from the start, and with good ice time. I think this trade actually says something about him; the Flyers moved Sharp so that Umberger has a more permanent spot when a guy like Primeau comes back.

Sharp's a solid little player. As of right now, he's a fantastic 4th line player, and a good 3rd liner. Ideally, in the future he could become an ideal 3rd line player who could occasionally play minutes in the top six.

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Old
12-05-2005, 09:08 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
No, that's not true at all. He's improved over the last week or so and is still on schedule to be back. He was put on longterm IR so he can save money. I agree that his proposal for Luongo would not get it done, but to say Primeau and Umberger are "bad" players is just as wrong, and a shows a fundamental lack of knowledge when it comes to those players.

And RJ Umberger is not a "bad" or "marginal" player, in any way. He's a good player now, and a guy who still has potential to be a real good 2nd line player in the future. If the Flyers didn't have absolutely ridiculous depth at center, he would have been playing from the start, and with good ice time. I think this trade actually says something about him; the Flyers moved Sharp so that Umberger has a more permanent spot when a guy like Primeau comes back.

Sharp's a solid little player. As of right now, he's a fantastic 4th line player, and a good 3rd liner. Ideally, in the future he could become an ideal 3rd line player who could occasionally play minutes in the top six.

Fine, fine, fine... Umberger and Primeau are solid players... but to me, Stuart and Sturm have way more trade value.

Whether Primeau gets back or not, his value has to be diminished, and Umberger has a total of 8 points in the NHL.

But I'm sorry... they aren't marginal or bad, just not nearly as high as Stuart or Sturm IMO.

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Old
12-05-2005, 09:33 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
Fine, fine, fine... Umberger and Primeau are solid players... but to me, Stuart and Sturm have way more trade value.

Whether Primeau gets back or not, his value has to be diminished, and Umberger has a total of 8 points in the NHL.

But I'm sorry... they aren't marginal or bad, just not nearly as high as Stuart or Sturm IMO.
I agree, they don't hold that kind of value. Bad choice of words I guess.

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Old
12-05-2005, 10:36 PM
  #44
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Eric Meloche? Honest to god, the only thing I remember about him is that he always wins the ROY award in NHL 2004 because he plays on Lemuiex's wing for a horrendous Pittsburgh club. He'd end up with like 8 goals and 52 assists.

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Old
12-05-2005, 10:45 PM
  #45
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Carter and Nittymaki will be going to FLA for Luongo. Mark my words.

I heard this from an extremely UNreliable source tonight, but you never know. I think that FLA would want something more in return for Luongo than Premeau, Esche, and whoever else was mentioned. Just my humble opinion.

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Old
12-05-2005, 10:46 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil slick
Except for the fact that he's out for likely the season with a concussion... which has to raise a few alarm bells.
I think the Flyers will eventually need this question answered. If he can't play again this year, they need to add somebody. The good news on that front for the organization is that they'd be able to add salary over the salary cap up to the average annual amount of Primeau's contract.

Actually, they could do that now, as he's been out the minimum time and games to necessary to qualify for the long-term injury cap exemption. The problem would be losing that salary once he returned.

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Old
12-05-2005, 10:54 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab79
Carter and Nittymaki will be going to FLA for Luongo. Mark my words.

I heard this from an extremely UNreliable source tonight, but you never know. I think that FLA would want something more in return for Luongo than Premeau, Esche, and whoever else was mentioned. Just my humble opinion.
Primeau and Esche? Gosh, I think Primeau's the heart and soul of this club, but I believe Bob Clarke would have little problem signing the dotted (has anyone ever seen a signature line that was actually non-continuous?) line on that one. It would have the most important thing he needed: cap relief to fit Luongo under.

Which is why Carter/Niittymaki would be a problem for the Flyers, not the Panthers. I'm sure Keenan would accept prospects for Luongo, but the Flyers can't conduct a trade where they don't move salary. No cap room. Oh, and I see your smiley face after that sentence, markzab.

I think Keenan can find much better trading partners out there.

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Old
12-05-2005, 10:57 PM
  #48
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Wouldnt moving Carter and Nitty free up their cap space? I know it isnt much but we would only have to find 3m right? The guy that we got for Sharp today, did he make more or less? Did that free up any room? Dont all of our injuries free up space as well in the meantime?

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12-05-2005, 11:09 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by markzab79
Wouldnt moving Carter and Nitty free up their cap space? I know it isnt much but we would only have to find 3m right? The guy that we got for Sharp today, did he make more or less? Did that free up any room? Dont all of our injuries free up space as well in the meantime?
They only make around $1.8M between both of them. Personally, I don't think the goaltending needs an upgrade so badly that it would warrant giving up Carter, even though Luongo is close to as good as it gets. At any rate - and this is my issue with these ideas/rumors - the problem comes this summer, when the Flyers are going to have Gagne, Pitkanen, and Johnsson to resign. They're not shedding much in contracts, and if I had to guess they're going to owe more to their free agents in raises than they will free up if they chose to just walk away from Brashear (likely) and Desjardins (he'll be back, although I think those counting on a significant home-town discount will be disappointed). They're probably going to have to trade good, valuable salaried player or players for futures as it is.

Ellison I believe makes $100-200K more than Sharp.

The injury to Primeau I believe is the only injury that would currently permit the Flyers to exceed the cap. The problem, again, is doing something when Primeau comes back. The day the doctor clears him to return, the Flyers must be back under the cap. It seems that this caveat to the new CBA is helpful in adding players from the minors, but not so much from outside the organization in terms of quality when the injury isn't season-long. If Primeau was gone for the year, then they could add a much better and more expensive player, preferably one with an expiring contract.

Although they must be aware of the cap not only during this season but also the next, and the next, and the next, etc. Payroll flexibility is where it's at.

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Old
12-06-2005, 07:01 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab79
Wouldnt moving Carter and Nitty free up their cap space? I know it isnt much but we would only have to find 3m right? The guy that we got for Sharp today, did he make more or less? Did that free up any room? Dont all of our injuries free up space as well in the meantime?
It would have to be Esche going the other way.

Niity 500K + Carter 1m for Luongo 3.1m + scrub @ 500K to replace Carter doesnt work.

The only way that could work if Primeaus gone for the season.

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