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Making Dandeneault a forward full time.

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Old
12-05-2005, 11:38 PM
  #1
Kingbobert
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Making Dandeneault a forward full time.

You know i like the things he does on ice, he's super fast has a pretty wicked shot and his hands are not that bad and has some offensive upside...

as a defenceman he's not doing that great..but i mean it's not his natural position...hasent honed his skills in D...when u play upfront all ur life and then be asked to play d in the nhl u see things differently...u know what to do as a forard not as a defenceman....

i think he can help that third line...
in fact he can help alot more than bulis....

what do u guys think?

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12-05-2005, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingbobert
You know i like the things he does on ice, he's super fast has a pretty wicked shot and his hands are not that bad and has some offensive upside...

as a defenceman he's not doing that great..but i mean it's not his natural position...hasent honed his skills in D...when u play upfront all ur life and then be asked to play d in the nhl u see things differently...u know what to do as a forard not as a defenceman....

i think he can help that third line...
in fact he can help alot more than bulis....

what do u guys think?

if were going to pay dandy 1.7 million a year to play foward on the
3rd- 4th line trade him right now

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12-05-2005, 11:41 PM
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in all fairness i did say third and we're paying bonk more to do that..

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12-05-2005, 11:47 PM
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Nope i actually like him as a defender. People hate on him but i think hes doing a good job.

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12-05-2005, 11:55 PM
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keep Dandenault as a defenceman!

He has the experience/Cups as a defenceman (Detroit Red Wings).
He'll get better and better, and I'm sure he'll do well as our #4 or #5 defenceman in the playoffs. You have a good team if he's your #4 or #5 (especially when he's playing well!).

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12-06-2005, 12:01 AM
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Dandenault is fine as a 12-15min. bottom pairing guy. I actually hate him more as a forward and I can't say I'm his biggest fan as a Dman either. But he's just more useful as a D. As long as he's not seeing any special unit time I'm fine having him as our 6th D. A bit expensive for a 6th D mind you, but with his contract I'd think he's untradeable anyway.

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12-06-2005, 12:22 AM
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To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed by Dandy. He's a good guy, gives good interviews but that's about it. However, he will be useful for the team in the playoffs since he has a lot of experiences and 2 cups (or 3?). The only thing that bothers me is that we pay him 1.7M while Brisebois gets 1.5M.

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12-06-2005, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingbobert
You know i like the things he does on ice, he's super fast has a pretty wicked shot and his hands are not that bad and has some offensive upside...

as a defenceman he's not doing that great..but i mean it's not his natural position...hasent honed his skills in D...when u play upfront all ur life and then be asked to play d in the nhl u see things differently...u know what to do as a forard not as a defenceman....

i think he can help that third line...
in fact he can help alot more than bulis....

what do u guys think?
They are hurting on the blue line already and you want to move a defenceman up front? Come on it will never happen, not now anyway

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Old
12-06-2005, 05:27 AM
  #9
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First of all, we need the depth on D and can't afford to move our blueliners up front.

Second, I'm one of those who hasn't been that disapointed with Dandenault. He doesn't do anything fancy, or bring a top-flight talent to our team, but he plays a solid, simple game, and I think he's been fine.

And the fact that he is as versatile as he is has been a tremendous asset to our team thus far.

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12-06-2005, 05:57 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Sakuuuuu
First of all, we need the depth on D and can't afford to move our blueliners up front.

Second, I'm one of those who hasn't been that disapointed with Dandenault. He doesn't do anything fancy, or bring a top-flight talent to our team, but he plays a solid, simple game, and I think he's been fine.

And the fact that he is as versatile as he is has been a tremendous asset to our team thus far.
I agree. The missing D is the problem. Habs need a mobile PP quarterback. In other words a top 4 D man.
of course most treams can say that so unless Gainey can rent a D at the trade deadline is to be seen.

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12-06-2005, 08:44 AM
  #11
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The problem is that he's a third pair guy and we already had Rivet and Komisarek on the right side, both third pair guys. We suffer under the delusion that Rivet is more than that, but he's not. He's turnover prone, stands around a lot and offers very little offensively.

Signing Kovalev took away any leverage we had of signing a Hamrlik or another top 4 defenseman. I guess Gainey is biding his time. We still have many holes, he can't do it all at once.

Who knows, maybe Gainey doesn't even see a problem with our defense as he scales the team up towards contention.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 12-06-2005 at 08:51 AM.
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12-06-2005, 08:57 AM
  #12
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Dandenault is actually better defensively than I thought. He is fine as a #5 D.

Again, I say that our D is not that bad. It's adequate for a cap world. We need another elite forward to become a solid contender, not another D.

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12-06-2005, 08:59 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by AH
Dandenault is actually better defensively than I thought. He is fine as a #5 D.

Again, I say that our D is not that bad. It's adequate for a cap world. We need another elite forward to become a solid contender, not another D.
We disagree severely then. You can't win a playoff series against a good team (unless they are also severely flawed) by turning the puck over in your own end and standing around. Not to mention having zero offense from the blueline which leads to a flat powerplay. Our penalty kill is bad also because of our lack of mobility, hands and vision on D. Not to mention not being able to make a first pass and start the rush. Etc, etc, etc... It doesn't help that we have several irresponsible forwards as well.

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12-06-2005, 09:07 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves
We disagree severely then. You can't win a playoff series against a good team (unless they are also severely flawed) by turning the puck over in your own end and standing around. Not to mention having zero offense from the blueline which leads to a flat powerplay. Our penalty kill is bad also because of our lack of mobility, hands and vision on D. Not to mention not being able to make a first pass and start the rush. Etc, etc, etc... It doesn't help that we have several irresponsible forwards as well.
If you haven't noticed, our D is pretty mobile. And anyways, I didnt say our D was perfect. I said it's adequate in a cap world, i.e. no team will be perfect with the way the NHL currently stands. Every team will have flaws.

On top of all that, since when does our PP QB have to be a defenseman. Two of the best PP in the league have Alfredsson and Rolston as the QB.

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Old
12-06-2005, 09:15 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by AH
If you haven't noticed, our D is pretty mobile. And anyways, I didnt say our D was perfect. I said it's adequate in a cap world, i.e. no team will be perfect with the way the NHL currently stands. Every team will have flaws.

On top of all that, since when does our PP QB have to be a defenseman. Two of the best PP in the league have Alfredsson and Rolston as the QB.
I need to make myself clearer when I blast my opinion on this. I'm happy with the job Gainey is doing. It's going to take a bit of time. We can't expect a Cup contender overnight. The bandaids are fine for now.

But let's tell it like it is. We are not mobile at all. Mobile doesn't just mean ability to skate in my opinion, it means to move the puck effectively. We are mobile in the sense that we can cover up for errors, which is fine.

Dandenault, Bouillon and Streit are mobile, but of limited skill/vision/hands/experience.

Markov is mobile, but has not moved the puck very well this season (tho he's been a stud on D).

Komisarek is mobile for a big man, but is several years away from his potential.

Souray is not confident with the puck right now at all. He needs to slow his game down and not just move the puck for the sake of moving the puck. He's a big man who can protect the puck if he has no options...sSSSSLOW DOWN. I'd love to see him put the fakes and feints back in his game too. That's when he was effective, because he knew that if the forechecker didn't go for the fake, he could easily protect the puck with his body. He has to get back to that.

Rivet is in love with soft end-arounds. I don't know why. I wish he would just hammer it down the ice instead. Rivet is not mobile with the puck, teams have an easy time pressuring him to cough it up.

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12-06-2005, 09:22 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I need to make myself clearer when I blast my opinion on this. I'm happy with the job Gainey is doing. It's going to take a bit of time. We can't expect a Cup contender overnight. The bandaids are fine for now.

But let's tell it like it is. We are not mobile at all. Mobile doesn't just mean ability to skate in my opinion, it means to move the puck effectively. We are mobile in the sense that we can cover up for errors, which is fine.

Dandenault, Bouillon and Streit are mobile, but of limited skill/vision/hands/experience.

Markov is mobile, but has not moved the puck very well this season (tho he's been a stud on D).

Komisarek is mobile for a big man, but is several years away from his potential.

Souray is not confident with the puck right now at all. He needs to slow his game down and not just move the puck for the sake of moving the puck. He's a big man who can protect the puck if he has no options...sSSSSLOW DOWN. I'd love to see him put the fakes and feints back in his game too. That's when he was effective, because he knew that if the forechecker didn't go for the fake, he could easily protect the puck with his body. He has to get back to that.

Rivet is in love with soft end-arounds. I don't know why. I wish he would just hammer it down the ice instead. Rivet is not mobile with the puck, teams have an easy time pressuring him to cough it up.
Good post. I think this is our biggest problem. NONE of our D-men can move the puck that well. Markov is obviously our best, but personally I expect more from him when he handles the puck. He's a great passer but doesn't carry the puck enough up ice, but then again it could be the coaching philosophy keeping him on a leash.

But all of our other d-men have stone hands for sure. Which is why we look so bad on the PP when the puck goes to our D. Just my opinion.

Cap

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Old
12-06-2005, 10:06 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
The problem is that he's a third pair guy and we already had Rivet and Komisarek on the right side, both third pair guys. We suffer under the delusion that Rivet is more than that, but he's not. He's turnover prone, stands around a lot and offers very little offensively.
Haven't seen much of Rivet this year have you? I see no problem having Rivet on the top pairing. Yes, he's been playing that well. Maybe ideally with a very strong D ala Ottawa Rivet is a #4, but we don't have that D, so...

Rivet has only 2pts less than Markov with 11 and plays against all the top lines, on average 23+ min. a game. And he's only -1 on a team that has 5 more goals against than goals for. And no, I'm not only going by stats, just saying they're confirming the obvious, Rivet has been playing stellar hockey this year, I don't know how anyone can dispute that.

As it stands Rivet is our #2 and a solid one at that. He's not the problem. In fact, he and Markov are the very few that are actually part of the solution on that bellow average D squad.

Add an other puckmover that might be available like Leopold or Ozolinsh and suddenly this D doesn't look half bad. Tampa has proven that you don't need an all star D to win the cup. Only a D that works well as a group with dmen who complement each other perfectly.

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12-06-2005, 12:33 PM
  #18
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Dandenault has improved tremendously that last 4/5 games and I feel very confident when he is on the ice. I noticed he did a lot of good plays that the commentators didnt even look at. He's been using his speed lately and I really like what I'm seeing. A definite upgrade on the piece of crap that left town.

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12-06-2005, 12:37 PM
  #19
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Simply put, we need more help on D then we need at forward this season. Keep him on D for now.

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12-06-2005, 12:39 PM
  #20
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when he skates in the zone at his speed he creates mismatches and chances, he should do it more often

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12-06-2005, 01:04 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Munchausen
Haven't seen much of Rivet this year have you? I see no problem having Rivet on the top pairing. Yes, he's been playing that well. Maybe ideally with a very strong D ala Ottawa Rivet is a #4, but we don't have that D, so...

Rivet has only 2pts less than Markov with 11 and plays against all the top lines, on average 23+ min. a game. And he's only -1 on a team that has 5 more goals against than goals for. And no, I'm not only going by stats, just saying they're confirming the obvious, Rivet has been playing stellar hockey this year, I don't know how anyone can dispute that.

As it stands Rivet is our #2 and a solid one at that. He's not the problem. In fact, he and Markov are the very few that are actually part of the solution on that bellow average D squad.

Add an other puckmover that might be available like Leopold or Ozolinsh and suddenly this D doesn't look half bad. Tampa has proven that you don't need an all star D to win the cup. Only a D that works well as a group with dmen who complement each other perfectly.
Sums it up nicely. When you see Dandenault and Streit paired together on the pp, you begin to appreciate Rivet. If the latter is so bad, why is he logging so many minutes per game and on ice for important situations?

Dandenault is being badly utilized, imo. He played better in Detroit for a reason. His speed makes him the ideal "rover" and I'm thinking he might be more effective if he was paired with a rock solid stay-at-home defenseman.

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12-06-2005, 01:11 PM
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In the words of a good colleague , Dandenault = Dykhuis X 10

Solid Stay at home, can run up the offence, Reliable to the extreme with less Offensive upside than Markov !

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12-06-2005, 01:35 PM
  #23
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Dandenault is not anywhere near solid or reliable. The reason he got so many penalities this year is because he's constantly beaten in the defensive zone. Any skilled forward can undress him along the boards and come out cleanly with the puck to get a scoring chance. That's why he was forced to take out the hook so often. He has been making less mistakes lately I'll give him that, but he's certainly not a guy you'd want on the ice in critical situations like PK, PP or against the other teams' top lines.

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12-06-2005, 01:39 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Duster
Sums it up nicely. When you see Dandenault and Streit paired together on the pp, you begin to appreciate Rivet. If the latter is so bad, why is he logging so many minutes per game and on ice for important situations?

Dandenault is being badly utilized, imo. He played better in Detroit for a reason. His speed makes him the ideal "rover" and I'm thinking he might be more effective if he was paired with a rock solid stay-at-home defenseman.
Rivet is not solid. Markov has had a monster year defensively and is severely limited offensively because of Rivet.

Here's something fun. Whenever there's a goal scored, check out who made the errant clearing pass or who was standing flat footed in front of the net not covering anybody.

Rivet is playing over his head much like Brisebois was when asked to be on the first pairing, that still doesn't make him a first pairing guy!

And with his cough-ups, I don't even want him on our third pair, much like Brisebois. Send him to Colorado I say!

Not to mention stupid penalties, like that penalty in the last seconds of the third period against Toronto. And YES, that was a PENALTY.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 12-06-2005 at 01:59 PM.
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Old
12-06-2005, 07:06 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Rivet is not solid. Markov has had a monster year defensively and is severely limited offensively because of Rivet.

Here's something fun. Whenever there's a goal scored, check out who made the errant clearing pass or who was standing flat footed in front of the net not covering anybody.

Rivet is playing over his head much like Brisebois was when asked to be on the first pairing, that still doesn't make him a first pairing guy!

And with his cough-ups, I don't even want him on our third pair, much like Brisebois. Send him to Colorado I say!

Not to mention stupid penalties, like that penalty in the last seconds of the third period against Toronto. And YES, that was a PENALTY.
Your dislike of Rivet is very strange. Munchausen's assessment was spot on. Rivet's been earning every penny of his salary. He's even been good on the powerplay. Overall, I think he's been just as effective as Markov, and definitely one of the best Habs so far this season.

Maybe we're watching different games, though I watch most of them.

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